AC router upgrade for N devices?

[phrehdd]

I have a messy situation here and was hoping to get some sage advice -

My friends have a modem-router that is set at 802.11b. I cannot (for now) change it. Their devices from what I know all may work on 802.11n. Presently, they have a switch with 2 computers and a couple of printers attached and that leaves the iphones, ipads, laptop and a media device using WiFi downstairs. Upstairs, the 802.11b doesn't play well (either no connection of too many drop outs to be of value).

My hopes are to get them an ac router to obtain 802.11n connectivity upstairs. What I was hoping for is advice on what ac router you folks would recommend and possibly best way to set up.

My thoughts at present -
1) add the new router to the switch
2) possibly set the router as a bridge so it obtains the DHCP IP addresses from the original modem-router or...
3) set the new router to only n/ac to limit interference.

Ideally, with a successful demonstration, I can get them to dumb down the modem-router so it serves only as a modem at this time and let the new router do the heavy lifting and with luck, avoid any extender of any sort (thus the interest in an ac router). My friends do complain about their set up but are afraid of change as well. I would like to get them into the present.

Any takers?

 

[L&LD]

I have a messy situation here and was hoping to get some sage advice -

My friends have a modem-router that is set at 802.11b. I cannot (for now) change it. Their devices from what I know all may work on 802.11n. Presently, they have a switch with 2 computers and a couple of printers attached and that leaves the iphones, ipads, laptop and a media device using WiFi downstairs. Upstairs, the 802.11b doesn't play well (either no connection of too many drop outs to be of value).

My hopes are to get them an ac router to obtain 802.11n connectivity upstairs. What I was hoping for is advice on what ac router you folks would recommend and possibly best way to set up.

My thoughts at present -
1) add the new router to the switch
2) possibly set the router as a bridge so it obtains the DHCP IP addresses from the original modem-router or...
3) set the new router to only n/ac to limit interference.

Ideally, with a successful demonstration, I can get them to dumb down the modem-router so it serves only as a modem at this time and let the new router do the heavy lifting and with luck, avoid any extender of any sort (thus the interest in an ac router). My friends do complain about their set up but are afraid of change as well. I would like to get them into the present.

Any takers?

I would not recommend trying to get their existing equipment to work with anything current except for the switch (if it is GBe) and the modem (especially if it can be bridged to the ISP).

Buy an AC1900 class router such as the RT-AC68U and replace the wireless router they have now.

Do not put the router in 'n' only or any such modes. Leave that part to auto. Most routers work best in that setting. But do use specific channels (test each for best throughput and latency before deciding) for each band though.

Doing anything other than the above will require you to move in and be continuously tweaking and fixing their network for them.

 

[phrehdd]

I would not recommend trying to get their existing equipment to work with anything current except for the switch (if it is GBe) and the modem (especially if it can be bridged to the ISP).

Buy an AC1900 class router such as the RT-AC68U and replace the wireless router they have now.

Do not put the router in 'n' only or any such modes. Leave that part to auto. Most routers work best in that setting. But do use specific channels (test each for best throughput and latency before deciding) for each band though.

Doing anything other than the above will require you to move in and be continuously tweaking and fixing their network for them.

Thanks for the response. I find this matter frustrating as I cannot remove (yet) the modem-router or at least turn off the WiFi. This leaves me with adding a router to where a router already exists and demonstrate the range and faster exchange between devices on the private network. I can't make DSL go faster and I can't make the "b" WiFi any better in speed or range. The real question is whether to put the new router on the switch or before the switch.

DSL Modem-router w/ 802.11b----> switch---->new ac router for 802.11n----->
or
DSL Modem-router w/802.11b----->new ac router for 802.11n----->switch for cabled devices

The goal is to get to the following by demonstration of connectivity above

Cable Modem----->ac router---->switch for cabled devices

 

[L&LD]

Thanks for the response. I find this matter frustrating as I cannot remove (yet) the modem-router or at least turn off the WiFi. This leaves me with adding a router to where a router already exists and demonstrate the range and faster exchange between devices on the private network. I can't make DSL go faster and I can't make the "b" WiFi any better in speed or range. The real question is whether to put the new router on the switch or before the switch.

DSL Modem-router w/ 802.11b----> switch---->new ac router for 802.11n----->
or
DSL Modem-router w/802.11b----->new ac router for 802.11n----->switch for cabled devices

The goal is to get to the following by demonstration of connectivity above

Cable Modem----->ac router---->switch for cabled devices

If the switch is 1GBe capable on all ports, then use it after the new ac router, if more than 4 ports are needed. If it is not 1GBe capable, give it away.

Forget 'n' class routers in your consideration. They are effectively obsolete.

Even the RT-AC56U (on sale for $100 or less) with it's two internal antennae and 2 streams will be a huge upgrade from any N class router you can buy today. Even the once venerable RT-N66U (which I still have, btw).

 

[phrehdd]

If the switch is 1GBe capable on all ports, then use it after the new ac router, if more than 4 ports are needed. If it is not 1GBe capable, give it away.

Forget 'n' class routers in your consideration. They are effectively obsolete.

Even the RT-AC56U (on sale for $100 or less) with it's two internal antennae and 2 streams will be a huge upgrade from any N class router you can buy today. Even the once venerable RT-N66U (which I still have, btw).

I would like to move forward for them with an ac router given their devices may change over time and they should be ready. For now, their devices connect with 802.11b but are capable of n. Given that the ac routers are the present and that discussion suggests they do a better job as well with n connectivity, ac router is on my list. I am looking at the Archer line, ASUS and Netgear.

 

[sfx2000]

My friends have a modem-router that is set at 802.11b. I cannot (for now) change it. Their devices from what I know all may work on 802.11n. Presently, they have a switch with 2 computers and a couple of printers attached and that leaves the iphones, ipads, laptop and a media device using WiFi downstairs. Upstairs, the 802.11b doesn't play well (either no connection of too many drop outs to be of value).

When you say Modem-Router - is this a converged device? If yes, is this carrier provided or customer owned?

If it is carrier provided, the best thing is to reach out to them - if the device is 11B, it's pretty old, and most likely the carrier would want to replace it. An 802.11B AP impacts every other network on the same channel, it's miserable, trust me...

The other challenge with moving from 11B to 11n is that most 11B AP's support at best WPA/TKIP, and many only do WEP - so some reconfiguration of the clients will be needed to make the most of 11N in the 2.4GHz band.

 

[phrehdd]

When you say Modem-Router - is this a converged device? If yes, is this carrier provided or customer owned?

If it is carrier provided, the best thing is to reach out to them - if the device is 11B, it's pretty old, and most likely the carrier would want to replace it. An 802.11B AP impacts every other network on the same channel, it's miserable, trust me...

The other challenge with moving from 11B to 11n is that most 11B AP's support at best WPA/TKIP, and many only do WEP - so some reconfiguration of the clients will be needed to make the most of 11N in the 2.4GHz band.

Agreed. My idea was to get everyone over to a new "network" and bypass the carrier's provided modem/router. However, I have to do this in baby steps so for a time both must be working, then if they are comfortable with the new network (using the new router) I can get the most likely to agree to get the WiFi on the modem/router turned off so it serves only as a modem.

 

[System Error Message]

You can have multiple APs to have legacy only and 2.4 N + 5Ghz AC. The AC3200 has 2 5Ghz radios which if you dont use smart connect can do this.
However since barely any clients you have support wireless AC theres no worry there.
WPA2 AES is a lot better than WPA TKIP in both security and performance.

This article explains why not to use TKIP and also that AES is faster.
http://www.howtogeek.com/204697/wi-fi-security-should-you-use-wpa2-aes-wpa2-tkip-or-both/
While the article recommends mixed mode it also mentions that mixed mode is insecure.

 

[stevech]

Opinion: 11AC with no 11AC clients is not a prudent investment.

For some reason, most carriers' WiFi is not very good.
My brother has a combo WiFi/Modem from Verizon and its WiFi range is good. His router connects by cat5 to a Verizon FIOS end point. Oh FIOS is so nice.
His phone/internet/TV bundle is 1/2 the cost of my TWC bundle. Because his homeowner's association (HOA) negotiated with Verizon to get a good, long term deal and AT&T was booted out. The trick is that the HOA is thousands of homes and Verizon had empty conduits underground from many years ago. So they pulled fiber. No trenching.

Me, I can't Time Warner to stop raising my price 20% every year. And none of our anti-trust GOVies care one iota.

 

[thiggins]

Opinion: 11AC with no 11AC clients is not a prudent investment.

Why?
There is demonstrated benefit
http://www.smallnetbuilder.com/wire...oes-an-ac-router-improve-n-device-performance

 

[phrehdd]

Opinion: 11AC with no 11AC clients is not a prudent investment.

For some reason, most carriers' WiFi is not very good.
My brother has a combo WiFi/Modem from Verizon and its WiFi range is good. His router connects by cat5 to a Verizon FIOS end point. Oh FIOS is so nice.
His phone/internet/TV bundle is 1/2 the cost of my TWC bundle. Because his homeowner's association (HOA) negotiated with Verizon to get a good, long term deal and AT&T was booted out. The trick is that the HOA is thousands of homes and Verizon had empty conduits underground from many years ago. So they pulled fiber. No trenching.

Me, I can't Time Warner to stop raising my price 20% every year. And none of our anti-trust GOVies care one iota.

As Thiggins pointed out, SNB shows that AC routers tested do provide a "better N than N routers" in some testing.

However, what I can say that for a typical household, progress can be really slow. Thus, I am in the position I am in now of having to work with two routers at the same time to convince them. At this point, it is not whether I'll get one but which one to get as ideally I would prefer a router that does 11n and covers their entire home (and that by phone I could help them if they wish to reconfigure the router later so the admin must be easy for them to navigate). My personal liking is for the Asus line up but still checking out the Archer and Netgear offerings. I'll still take any suggestions here if people have them so I may investigate further.

 

[L&LD]

When on sale, the RT-AC56U is a 'no-brainer' upgrade for almost any router upgrade I have tried. To get better hardware spec's requires spending considerably more money and in the end, it many not provide a better experience in any case for the user.

So far, nothing can touch the performance this AC1200 class router offers. Best bang for the buck.

http://www.snbforums.com/threads/asuswrt-merlin-378-55-3_hgg-final-mod.26524/page-2#post-199549

 

[stevech]

Why?
There is demonstrated benefit
http://www.smallnetbuilder.com/wire...oes-an-ac-router-improve-n-device-performance

well.. 11n is 11n. The waveform is defined.
The packets/sec speed of the recent NATing routers is more than adequate.

 

[sfx2000]

well.. 11n is 11n. The waveform is defined.
The packets/sec speed of the recent NATing routers is more than adequate.

11n is 11n, agreed at a PHY level...

Most of the reason why AC improves N performance - cleaner MAC SW stack, faster/more efficient chips...

AC class routers, in general, also have more advanced SoC's and more RAM/Flash...

 

[phrehdd]

Just a bit curious - when seeing customer reviews on various routers (still trying to choose here), I often see 'challenges' occurring with the native firmware/software provide for Asus, comments as well on some Netgear and even the Archer series. Are there certain ac router models that have stable firmware that is relatively easy to navigate?

Of recent, I find that nearly all the wireless devices are capable of 802.11n and one that is 802.11ac. This now bring ac truly into the game as I suspect some of these devices within a year or so will be replaced with ac capable devices. For now, just will be happy to get n capabilities.

Btw, I am hoping not to go 3rd party to flash the firmware but remain with the maker's offering.

 

[sfx2000]

Stable Factory firmware for the AC1900 class - WRT1900acV1 and the Airport Extreme AC...

Not the most popular here on this forum recently - mostly because the issues have been resolved, and generally, they're not 3rd Party Firmware Friendly, which probably solves additional issues..

 

[phrehdd]

Stable Factory firmware for the AC1900 class - WRT1900acV1 and the Airport Extreme AC...

Not the most popular here on this forum recently - mostly because the issues have been resolved, and generally, they're not 3rd Party Firmware Friendly, which probably solves additional issues..

I am quite familiar with the AE and was curious if there is any list of AC routers that have known stable firmware/software. For myself, I would love to play with 3rd party firmware but this exercise is not for me. As mentioned I am dealing with several N capable devices, one AC device and probably in the next year less N devices and added AC devices (computers, iPads and cell phones along with direct cabled printers). I guess the challenge always remains on which article or post one reads as so many seem near opposites in stance from one another on various makes and models. Presently, they have 802.11b via modem-router by DSL provider and hopefully, after showing potential of 802.11n, they'll make the jump to cable (which they already have for TV viewing).

If this is of any value -

Upstairs 11b barely reaches and they have cell phones, iPad and one laptop.
Downstairs, same as above but also 2 cable connected computers and 2 printers plus one laptop that handles AC.

The neighborhood is full of WiFi routers that are set mostly to b/g/n with the strongest signal coming from their own 11b modem-router. (I used a couple of tools to scan and also my own cell phone identifies the same for the most part).

Last - of the Netgear and Asus and Archer line, which has stable firmware and reasonable to set up? When they do switch to cable, I expect a bit more on the streaming side to occur (Amazon and Netflix) as well as items for an "Nvidia Shield TV" that has 11n connectivity or Cat5e.