AFCI and powerline updates?

[drummaniac83]

Since the last AFCI update in 2011 does anyone know if the situation has improved. I was looking at using powerline between 2 rooms. One has an EATON AFCI outlet. I didn't know if anyone had tested stuff on AFCI since 2011. Are the newer powerline products any better at dealing with AFCI or are newer AFCI designed better?

Seems like I might just need to buy a pair of adapters and do testing to see if it will work.

I'm a noob looking at building an HTPC with cablecard and an xbox360 extender. house built in 2012.

Thanks for any help or advice! love the site!

 

[PrivateJoker]

A cursory glance couldn't find a good answer to your question, re if things have changed since 2011 w/ either powerline/HomePlug adapters or newer AFCIs.

Some googling led me to a Logitech website page with some tips that actually referenced by URL a SNB article from 2010, by Tim.

I would say unless things have changed a lot since then (and even if they have. . .still makes sense to be prudent) follow his great info on which kinds of AFCIs are better/worse, and things you can do to mitigate problems.

If distance between rooms isn't far (and I'm assuming your AP is in one of the rooms) doing a 2.4ghz or 5ghz bridge (if close) will yield powerline or better results. If the two rooms aren't that close, even doing a 2.4ghz-N to 2.4ghz-N bridge with two inexpensive N routers could still be quick.

hth!

 

[thiggins]

I haven't tested to see if my AFCI breakers are any better with HPAV2. I tend to doubt it, since the 500 Mbps devices all get extra throughput by using higher frequencies. AFCI breakers using capacitive coupling will attenuate higher frequencies even more.

The one chance for newer homeplug designs would be AV2 MIMO, which actually use the ground conductor as part of the circuit. These products aren't out yet, however.

Unless Eaton changed its AFCI breaker design, your breaker should not present a problem with HomePlug.

 

[sliverstorm]

I haven't tested to see if my AFCI breakers are any better with HPAV2. I tend to doubt it, since the 500 Mbps devices all get extra throughput by using higher frequencies. AFCI breakers using capacitive coupling will attenuate higher frequencies even more.

I think you are incorrect there. My memory is a little fuzzy right now, but higher frequency actually travels through capacitive couples better. Just check out our ol' friend, the impedance equation for caps:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electrical_impedance#Device_examples

 

[PrivateJoker]

I think you are incorrect there. My memory is a little fuzzy right now, but higher frequency actually travels through capacitive couples better. Just check out our ol' friend, the impedance equation for caps:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electrical_impedance#Device_examples

Regardless, Eaton & Square D, the non-capacitive AFCI brands, are the ones to stick with.

 

[thoma]

I think you are incorrect there. My memory is a little fuzzy right now, but higher frequency actually travels through capacitive couples better.

That's correct.

In fact, Homeplug AV relies on the capacitive coupling in parallel wire runs to transfer signals from one phase to another.

However, you do not want the HomePlug signal to get capacitively coupled to the AFCI. You want it to get coupled to the other phase. The AFCI is only connected to one phase. Any signal sent to the AFCI is wasted.

 

[stevech]

That's correct.

In fact, Homeplug AV relies on the capacitive coupling in parallel wire runs to transfer signals from one phase to another.

However, you do not want the HomePlug signal to get capacitively coupled to the AFCI. You want it to get coupled to the other phase. The AFCI is only connected to one phase. Any signal sent to the AFCI is wasted.

as to coupling between phases (No. American homes).. I'd like to see measurements. I have great doubt about this.
What does work, is a 220VAC appliance that is "on". That bridges well, in most cases. When on.

After my adventures with IP on power lines, I appreciate my MoCA run that has been zero problems for several years. Just like an ethernet switch.

 

[thoma]

as to coupling between phases (No. American homes).. I'd like to see measurements. I have great doubt about this.
What does work, is a 220VAC appliance that is "on". That bridges well, in most cases. When on.

HomePlug AV has no problem crossing phases. Nor does it need 240 V appliances to be turned on. (Which wouldn't really achieve anything except to add noise to the circuit.)

I am making this very post through a cross-phase HomePlug AV network, with all 240 V breakers in the OFF position.

There will, of course, be some performance degradation. The lower frequencies do not cross phases too well. Thus, cross-phase HomePlug AV will be transmitting data primarily over the higher-frequency subcarriers.

 

[stevech]

My point was to mean: coupling via parallel phases in the same romex cable (en route to a 220V appliance), isn't an assured/reliable means for phase coupling. Turning on an electric oven's 220V heating element does create a low impedance bridge. Same for a 220v clothes dryer.

This is a bit controversial, but indeed, in broader forums, you can read about people working on cross-phase solutions.