beam-forming and custom antenna's

[legitsu]

So I bought a "refurbed" Netgear R6250 to play around with it does have u.fl connections for the antenna
I believe the stock chip-antennas are something like 2dbi 2.4ghz range is adaquate but the 5Ghz is pretty well unusable any ware bur downstairs due physical location(walls on 3 sides and a giant fish tank sucking up a bunch if signal) , before someone asks no moving the router is not really a option( it would require drilling holes in the floor and running cable .... )
so I was looking at getting 3 of these http://www.superpowersupply.com/ind...od-kit-no-soldering-for-wireless-routers.html
was wondering how it might affect beam forming ill do by best to mount them evenly in a symmetrical pattern
I know it may not do much for the range but it should help cut though some of the physical interference
what I am interested to know is what beam-forming requires in terms 0f antenna geometry and alignment

 

[stevech]

To fix poor coverage downstairs... you'll need to put an access point there. Antennas can't provide enough gain to solve the problem.

 

[legitsu]

The router is downstairs its not even getting 5Ghz signal to the kitchen witch is less then 40 foot from where the router is ...
there is walls on 3 sides behind that is a giant 150 gallon saltwater tank and on the other side of that is the stairwell for the upstairs/basement
I don't care about having 5Ghz upstairs 2.4 will suffice for that
edit: heres a video so you can understand just how completely aweful the location is
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B8rW-AtdNMc9Y1QyejlGZXVkTHM/view?usp=sharing

 

[TonyH]

The router is downstairs its not even getting 5Ghz signal to the kitchen witch is less then 40 foot from where the router is ...
there is walls on 3 sides behind that is a giant 150 gallon saltwater tank and on the other side of that is the stairwell for the upstairs/basement
I don't care about having 5Ghz upstairs 2.4 will suffice for that
edit: heres a video so you can understand just how completely aweful the location is
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B8rW-AtdNMc9Y1QyejlGZXVkTHM/view?usp=sharing

In a multi level house basement is worst place to locate a router. Top floor, central point of house is best place. My router is located on the loft of a two story house. One router is enough for me. That
antenna and beam forming, no one can tell what is going to happen. Result unknown until trying it out. My cable entry point is basement I ran a cable to the loft to connect to the router. Is it possible
for you to run a length of cable?

 

[TonyH]

To fix poor coverage downstairs... you'll need to put an access point there. Antennas can't provide enough gain to solve the problem.

Alway gain antenna is directional.

 

[stevech]

Are walls made of drywall or lath/plaster? The latter is very RF attenuating, esp. as frequency increases.
Fish tank is large and seems to be in the path - right? Draw an imaginary line from router to dead-spot area on 1st floor - if the big tank's in the path, it's very RF-lossy. With 11n and 11AC you might get a little help from reflected signals, but not much.

So you'd have to relocate the router or use 2.4GHz on 1st floor, if that's works well enough, or put in an access point. Or run cat5 in attic or under house if feasible.

No easy answer.

 

[stevech]

Alway gain antenna is directional.

True BUT... there are high gain antennas that are omni-directional (non-directional) on a horizontal plane. But on a vertical plane they are directional. Pattern is like a doughnut. Flatter the doughnut, higher the gain. Higher the gain, larger the antenna. In the case here, a 12dBi omni would be about 5 ft. long. A 6dBi omni, about 1-2 ft. long.

However! If the weak signal shortfall is, as often is the case, like 20-30dB, these antennas even big ones, won't solve the problem. Especially in the to-router direction where handhelds often have lower power, poorer antennas than does the router. WiFi is two way and few routers display the signal strength of the client devices and they are the weakest link.

 

[legitsu]

1.lath yea I know it sucks signal
2. that isn't the basement its the first floor
3. I am ok with only 2.4 upstairs the only devices that need it are two android smart phones and they don't get much usage up there
4. there are 4 lan connections that run behind the desk there two go upstairs one run's the machine on the desk and the other one is for the printer in the basement so running cable really would be a pain

 

[stevech]

Floors are often thick plywood in homes. Much more attenuation than drywall.
Lath & plaster is much more than drywall.
I assume you know that you can easily get more ethernet cable ports by adding a low cost ethernet switch.

Can't run CAT5?
try Ethernet over home wiring (HomePlug or HPNA), or
try Ethernet over existing TV coax (MoCA)

see the forum section for the above.

 

[legitsu]

Floors are often thick plywood in homes. Much more attenuation than drywall.
Lath & plaster is much more than drywall.
I assume you know that you can easily get more ethernet cable ports by adding a low cost ethernet switch.

Can't run CAT5?
try Ethernet over home wiring (HomePlug or HPNA), or
try Ethernet over existing TV coax (MoCA)

see the forum section for the above.

wiring is to old to support power-line house is late 1800's
there are 4 devices that need the wifi 3 phones and a old laptop ... anything over that is gravy the only thing that really needs the 5Ghz wifi link is the blueray player upstairs thats directly above the router

 

[legitsu]

Amazon has a set of 3 7DBI antenna's /w the u.fl pigtails for 15 bucks gonna order those and report back ill just do the 5Ghz One and leave the 2.4 ones connected

 

[Jim Mallory]

Even if increasing the antenna gain allows the AP to punch through the interference...there is no guarantee that the end device (which typically are lower power than the APs) can get a signal back to the AP.

 

[htismaqe]

Even if increasing the antenna gain allows the AP to punch through the interference...there is no guarantee that the end device (which typically are lower power than the APs) can get a signal back to the AP.

Exactly. The OP probably just wasted $15.

 

[kbp]

I Stream to my bluray on 2.4. And thats 3D from my NAS with no problems - 3 walls with stack washer/dryer just about in the middle of the path.
This even surprised me that it worked. I am "hard wiring" soon. That lets me shut my 2.4 off with everything else on 5Ghz.

 

[stevech]

Even if increasing the antenna gain allows the AP to punch through the interference...there is no guarantee that the end device (which typically are lower power than the APs) can get a signal back to the AP.

See #7, above

 

[stevech]

I Stream to my bluray on 2.4. And thats 3D from my NAS with no problems - 3 walls with stack washer/dryer just about in the middle of the path.
This even surprised me that it worked. I am "hard wiring" soon. That lets me shut my 2.4 off with everything else on 5Ghz.

are your walls lath & plaster?

 

[TonyH]

Even if increasing the antenna gain allows the AP to punch through the interference...there is no guarantee that the end device (which typically are lower power than the APs) can get a signal back to the AP.

TX gain applies equally on RX gain.

 

[sfx2000]

So I bought a "refurbed" Netgear R6250 to play around with it does have u.fl connections for the antenna

I believe the stock chip-antennas are something like 2dbi 2.4ghz range is adaquate but the 5Ghz is pretty well unusable any ware bur downstairs due physical location(walls on 3 sides and a giant fish tank sucking up a bunch if signal) , before someone asks no moving the router is not really a option( it would require drilling holes in the floor and running cable .... )

The antennas are fine, you have a poor AP location - move the AP - bigger antennas do not help...

I know it may not do much for the range but it should help cut though some of the physical interference

what I am interested to know is what beam-forming requires in terms 0f antenna geometry and alignment

5GHz is always a challenge - if you can't drill to run cable, then consider HomePlugs as a possible option.

But leave the antennas alone..

 

[sfx2000]

TX gain applies equally on RX gain.

And Gain raises all boats - good Signal as well as Noise from adjacent AP's... so again, leave the antennas alone and move the AP to where the traffic is...

 

[TonyH]

True BUT... there are high gain antennas that are omni-directional (non-directional) on a horizontal plane. But on a vertical plane they are directional. Pattern is like a doughnut. Flatter the doughnut, higher the gain. Higher the gain, larger the antenna. In the case here, a 12dBi omni would be about 5 ft. long. A 6dBi omni, about 1-2 ft. long.

However! If the weak signal shortfall is, as often is the case, like 20-30dB, these antennas even big ones, won't solve the problem. Especially in the to-router direction where handhelds often have lower power, poorer antennas than does the router. WiFi is two way and few routers display the signal strength of the client devices and they are the weakest link.