Home NAS for Mixed OS household

[mccaberm]

I've been researching how to build out my home network (I don't have one now) for almost a month, and it's nothing short of bewildering.

I've come to NAS devices because I like the idea of having my content stored on my network rather than what I think of as an I/O device. Taking a step back, I have a 6 year old G4 Powerbook which is nearly full, but has 2GB RAM, so it's not exactly dead yet, just needs a little breathing room. However, it runs on the old chips (not Intel), so it has some limitations. I think it's on Tiger OSX 10.4.11, and I know it will eventually become irrelevant, perhaps before it breaks.

I bring that up in relation to the NAS only because I'm wondering if it even makes sense to buy another laptop ever? From home, the main things my wife and I do are email, browse, rip/store/stream/share media, etc. Can we not do all those things from, let's say, an iPad on a home network run by a NAS?

I don't want to buy a NAS now and discover I have to buy another full computer to run it or run various media applications. If I have to use a NAS as a backup only device, it would change my overall strategy and certainly change my purchasing decisions.

Sorry, forgot to mention my wife runs a PC laptop, which is also aging and will be replaced with some device in the next year or so. I want the NAS to be tilted towards Macs, but PC compatible.

 

[zurge]

Some NAS/Network Options

What exactly does

I've been researching how to build out my home network (I don't have one now)

actually mean? I assume you must have some sort of network in place since you talk about having multiple computers and internet, is this not true?

I am going to assume you are gonna need to start from scratch with your network at this point.

1. You need a wireless router that will keep up with your activities like ripping movies, surfing the web, share media, etc.... I don't know how frequent you do these things but I would suggest that you look at a fast Wireless N router. I would suggest that you start by looking at some on the SmallNetBuilder Wireless Charts. Many seem to like the Netgear WNDR3700 but there are several routers to choose from.

2. NAS - This requires a few questions be answered.

What type of media do you share? [Audio, Video, and filetypes (ACC, Xvid)]

Also do you strictly share media between computers or is there some sort of third-party device like a PS3 or Apple TV type device?

Do you have any idea of how much storage you will need or what price range you'd like to be in?

3. Now about your iPad question,

From home, the main things my wife and I do are email, browse, rip/store/stream/share media, etc. Can we not do all those things from, let's say, an iPad on a home network run by a NAS?

. With an iPad and a wireless network you could email, browse the web, watch videos online from sites like YouTube, read books and read newspapers, etc.... If you were to add a NAS into this equation you would be able to more easily share/stream media from a centralized storage location that all computers/devices could access. An iPad has no DVD drive so you would not be able to rip any media.

For the most part any NAS you get should be Mac/Windows compatible, I would suggest staying away from the Windows Home Server NASes.

I hope this helps answer a few things and helps you think about a few things too. Let me know if you have any more questions about any of it.

Zach

 

[claykin]

3. Now about your iPad question, . With an iPad and a wireless network you could email, browse the web, watch videos online from sites like YouTube, read books and read newspapers, etc.... If you were to add a NAS into this equation you would be able to more easily share/stream media from a centralized storage location that all computers/devices could access. An iPad has no DVD drive so you would not be able to rip any media.

I don't have an iPad, but I understand it has no file system. So, accessing files on a LAN may be problematic unless an "app" is created that mimics a file system (CIFS or AFP). I understand a PDF reader has already been created that allows files to be manipulated through some means. I'm far from an iPad (or Apple) expert, so someone may want to chime in here.

For the most part any NAS you get should be Mac/Windows compatible, I would suggest staying away from the Windows Home Server NASes.

Good advice. While WHS can be used in a Mac environment, its not the best solution. Look at Netgear Readynas, Qnap, Synology for NAS solutions.

 

[mccaberm]

I reread my post and want to apologize for how muddled it was.

Thanks for your replies. To zurge, you are right, I have a wifi network in place. Let me set the table a little more concretely.

Think of my house as essentially having two rooms. Our front office and our back family room. My wife works from the office during the day, and we both spend most of our time when indoors in the back family room in the evening/weekends. Our stereo and TV system are there. Our wifi coverage is dodgy here and goes up and down randomly.

In the front office, we have our WAN access from cable, cable modem, an Airport Extreme BSg, a couple printers (we plug into a specific computer to print), her work laptop, and I have an Apple display/mouse/keyboard that I used to use to dock my laptop when I worked on it.

I'm looking to build a solution to some existing problems, expand some functionality as well as provide some growth for the future.

Problems:
1) Neither of our laptops is backed up.
2) My laptop hard drive is full.

Expand functionality:
3) Would really like to be able to play all the iTunes songs I have through my main house stereo in the back room.
4) Would like better wifi coverage in the back as well.

Futureman:
5) Want to expand our content storage capacity. We currently have about 180GB but have not exactly been pouring it on. I'm guessing a TB of storage would last us another 5 years before we'd have to adjust.
6) We each have aging laptops which still work but will probably be replaced sometime in the next year or two. I'm leaning towards the intermediate step of decommissioning them into just browser hosts, with a background server holding content. Also, I don't want to overlap my next set of purchases with my current set of purchases in terms of functionality. (i.e., why buy a big fat server for two people if I am going to have to buy two new laptops in 2011?)

I am not as concerned with price as I am with functionality and great customer service. I read so many reviews where 80% of the people have no problems (who wouldn't be happy?) but then 20% and how the company handles those problems makes the difference.

I was all set to get a RAID1 NAS, an Airport Express (AX) and a bunch of CAT-6 cable to make it hum, but then I read some articles here about the false safety of RAID devices, and it gave me a moment's pause.

It appears to me that the handheld type devices like iPad aren't powerful enough or just aren't designed to really take the place of a laptop. I'm not really sure if NAS devices come with powerful enough operating systems to run the whole network, including hosting applications for the weaker iPad/Phone technologies.

I've read dozens of NAS reviews and there seems to have been a huge jump between (approx) 2008 and late 2009 devices. Many of the newer devices haven't even been reviewed, like LaCie 2big Network 2 (or I just can't find them). I'm also wondering the quality of NAS server software. I would really enjoy hosting my own website and sharing pics/content with family members without having to upload to 3rd party sites like Flickr/Picassa, etc.

My wife and I (I keep getting wifi and wife typo'd, yikes) are on our computers for work every day and are often on the same couch on different computers at night. Sad to admit, but true. We're not really power users, but from the list above, you can see what our goals are. I tilt towards the Apple side of the world, but I have a natural instinct to not become entirely dependent on the company. Yet she's open to her next computer being a Mac. Still, I would be administering everything through my Mac, and I'm not a big techie tinkerer. I like to work/play with my tech, not on it.

I hope this explains the dilemma better. As the great article on this site mentioned, I have definitely hit brain freeze on the issue.

 

[zurge]

Some Suggestions to your dilemma

mccaberm, an iPad type device does not have the ability to run applications like your computer does, therefore replacing a laptop with a iPad is not necessarily feasible. If all you really do is surf the web, check email, listen to some music and watch some videos then you might be able to pull this off. If you can use iWork for your word processing, presentations, spreadsheets, etc... then you could probably get 90% of your functionality out of an iPad. Since the iPad operating system is not like your computer, applications must be written specifically for an iPad/iPhone. This also limits their ability to run applications off of a NAS device. iPads and iPhones are nice devices but they are meant for as a direct replacement of a laptop, they are meant to compliment a laptop.

Alright now to tackle your goals:

Problems:
1) Neither of our laptops is backed up

My Reply - A NAS would most definitely solve this issue. Backing up your data to a NAS in an effective, safe way to store your data. Though it is true that RAID is not a full-proof system but your current backup arrangement is FAR more dangerous than RAID ever thought of being. RAID isn't a backup method as much as it is a redundant or failsafe system. At some point you would want to purchase a external hard drive to backup your NAS to. If you were interested in learning more about RAID let me know I have a couple place for you to read.

2) My laptop hard drive is full.

My Reply - A NAS would be a perfect place to store your archived data or to off-load data like music and pictures. Off-loadinging data to the NAS would give you redundancy and it would allow you to share your content easier.

Expand functionality:
3) Would really like to be able to play all the iTunes songs I have through my main house stereo in the back room.

My Reply - A NAS that has a iTunes server would allow you to stream music from the NAS directly to a compatible audio device. A compatible audio device might be a computer, stereo, or Apple Airport Express (to name some devices).

4) Would like better wifi coverage in the back as well.

My Reply - This would require you to either purchase a new wireless router or to move/firmware update your current router. If you are able to move your current router around a little bit then you might try that to see if it helps.

Futureman:
5) Want to expand our content storage capacity. We currently have about 180GB but have not exactly been pouring it on. I'm guessing a TB of storage would last us another 5 years before we'd have to adjust.

My Reply - If you intend to backup your computers, off-load data like music and pictures, and archive data you will need to make sure the NAS is large enough to store everything, not just your media files. For example, if my laptop has 250GB hard drive and I had 100GB of media files then I would probably want to be able to have at least enough space to backup my drive, store the media, and have room for expansion. If you use time machine to backup, then you might consider having 500GB of storage for backing up your computer so that you can have two archived version of your laptop stored.

6) We each have aging laptops which still work but will probably be replaced sometime in the next year or two. I'm leaning towards the intermediate step of decommissioning them into just browser hosts, with a background server holding content. Also, I don't want to overlap my next set of purchases with my current set of purchases in terms of functionality. (i.e., why buy a big fat server for two people if I am going to have to buy two new laptops in 2011?)

My Reply - Consider spending around $300-$500 dollars for a NAS. This would give you storage and some additional functionality like media streaming, photo sharing, etc.... and give you room to make other purchases.


Many NAS have built in functionality that allows you to share photos, music, backup computers, and access the NAS unit remotely. I have a list of NASes that you might consider, with the Synology being the one that I would consider most.

Look for a NAS that offers media streaming, either via iTunes server or Squeezebox servers. Also look for a NAS that supports Apple Time Machine and supports an easy web-based method to share photos with friends/family. Take a look at this list and let me know if you have any further questions.

Note: All servers listed on list are RAID 1, which mirrors to drives in case one drive fails. The Iomega Home Media NAS is a single drive NAS which has no redundancy or failsafe. Also, the Synology and Netgear support communities are both very active so this might be something to consider. I am not familiar enough with Qnap's support communities and Iomega is considered by most to offer so-so support.

PS, I did not proof read this thing because it is SO long so if something doesn't make sense, sorry.

 

[prometheus]

my personal setup may suit you needs fella
netgear WNDR 3700 wireless N router twin channel router
netgear GS108T switch
netgear Duo Nas storage up to 2tb i believe
logitech squeezebox duet reciever paired with ipod touch, ipad, or iphone using ipeng for music

well thats what im doing

 

[thiggins]

RAID is not a substitute for backup. Never trust files that you don't want to lose to a single device. So if a NAS becomes your primary data store, you'll need to back it up to an attached drive or other NAS.

I am on an iPad now. No way I would use it as a primary computer. But as a web browser and media device it is great. There are apps that allow you to browse SMB shares and access / transfer files. But I use my Pad mainly for web browsing, so don't use them.

Surge has covered most of what else I would have said.

 

[mccaberm]

Thanks for the great help, guys.

A difficulty in all this is that NAS's are versatile machines and RAID technology is often misinterpreted. Is your NAS going to be your content server or your backup device? It took me awhile to figure out it shouldn't be both. But would that mean buy two?

Another confusion is the level and types of computation and functionality both NAS OSs have as well as light devices like iPads, etc, have.

It's pretty clear that a NAS/iPad solution will not meet all my needs, even though it would probably meet 90%. Networks seem to still need standard computing technology, but are we coming full circle to almost home mainframes with dummy iPad-type devices as user I/O?

I've been leaning towards the following comprehensive solution:
1) Mac mini with Snow Leopard Server
This machine solves my content serving problems and will do everything and more a NAS OS would do. The hardware seems to be configured as strongly if not moreso than a lot of the NASs, though I've determined that 1TB rather than 2 will be fine. It also upgrades my OSX to protect against the eventual failure of my laptop. This also makes use of the dormant Apple Display I have in the front office.

2) Time capsule. This gives me both the upgrade in wireless coverage I've wanted as well as a *physically separate device* to actually backup my content (both from the server and on the laptops).

3) Apple TV. This does more than just let me stream music, which I could have done with the cheaper Airport Express. It also lets me stream video and access a bunch of online rentals. Actually, this is a bit of a fun purchase/upgrade but it will enable us to stream shows we miss but watch to our TV (like Fringe) instead of crowding around the laptop monitor and struggling to hear. We don't have an XBox or anything like that, so a lot of the cheaper or freeware based video media streamers wouldn't work for us, we'd still need a box.

This has become my standard solution against which I'm measuring other solutions. Any thoughts? I didn't want to go all Apple, but it was hard for me to figure out other solutions from a hodge podge of companies that would definitely work well together and also cost significantly less.

This networking stuff is fun and very interesting. I never thought I'd see racks being used in homes. I think home networking is just beginning to emerge as more common and necessary, though it's still in its early adolescence and will probably change a lot in the next 5 years. Ha... home networking puberty.

Thanks again for your help, this is a fantastic site. And feel free to comment on this solution I've found and intend to go with.

 

[teknojnky]

I would expect your triumvirate of apple products should work very well for your purposes.

I don't know if it will save you any money, tho perhaps by having a naturally tight integration it will save you time (and time is money).

I have an apple tv myself, and if/since you are totally comfortable with the whole apple/itunes closed ecosystem, it should serve you perfectly.

In the future, if you want a little more freedom with what you can do with it, you may want to investigate the boxee/xbmc patchstick.

Xbmc/boxee will improve the capabilities of the appletv drastically, but at the cost of you procuring and storing your own content (ie rip/download) vs the ease (and cost) of itunes store.

 

[mccaberm]

My brother just forwarded me some info about Xbmc today, but I just skimmed it. On surface, I didn't see how it was functionally different from AppleTV, other than it might have some slick skin features, etc., and you can use it from your Xbox if you have one, making it super affordable. Am I missing something there?

I refuse to buy content through Apple. I love their machines, their operating systems and other software, however I object to their expansion into selling music they didn't create and making it difficult to share. I only use iTunes to manage/play my music (that I've ripped from CD), and will expand that to video (ripping our DVDs).

 

[teknojnky]

xbmc will play just about any file type you can create or find on the internet.

while itunes only plays back the basic mp3/m4a and whatever mpeg4 video files.

xbmc can also playback full dvds, with menus, using either iso or folder rips.

without extra hardware, appletv does great with standard def, and some 720p videos.

its also possible to replace the wifi card inside the appletv with a broadcom HD decoder card, but this goes into some hardcore hacking (both hardware and softwarewise) to get a stable and working system.

Myself I have a minimal ubuntu + broadcom card running on my appletv and it plays back bluray m2ts files nearly perfectly, but it took alot of work to get it all working right. And it doesnt (yet) playback native bluray disks/folders.

If high def 1080p playback is what you are most interested in, you may want to skip the appletv and look into the various REVO net top machines that xbmc supports. Altho this will cause you to lose itunes intergration.

At this point in time, the native appletv/itunes probly works better for audio, due primarily to genius and being able to sync between appletv and desktop itunes.

Boxee is based upon xbmc, but is more online streaming and social networking centric (hulu/tweet/facebook/etc).

The atv patchstick simply adds an additional menu to the appletv menu which launches xbmc or boxee. Meaning you can still use the regular appletv interface for some things, while using xbmc or boxee for others.

 

[zurge]

Re: mccaberm

I personally think the Mac Mini with Snow Leopard Server is a fine option for you. It would give you any/all abilities that you have talked about. One thing to note about the server is this though, a 1TB Mac Mini with the server installed is going to give you 500GB of available storage, the other 500GB is your mirrored data (RAID 1). If you want a full 1TB of storage from the Mac Mini you would need to run in either RAID 0, I wouldn't suggest this, or no RAID.

Note: With any RAID system the TOTAL storage is given. For example, if you buy a 2TB RAID system that has two hard drives and you want to have some data redundancy by running it in RAID 1, you will have 1TB of available storage. The other 1TB is mirroring the data you store on the available storage. RAID 1, always cuts your total storage in half.

Also, if you are opposed to using iTunes as your video/audio marketplace, then I don't see how the AppleTV offers much benefit to you. I would suggest you take a look at the PopBox here. This will play almost anything could throw at it and it also has apps that let you stream/buy content from third-partys. Though not announced yet, I expect to see Netflix, Amazon, etc... type companies available through Popbox.

When compared to the AppleTV, I personally like the openness of the Popbox a little more, the large list of codecs that it supports and the lower price point.

 

[thiggins]

Files you don't want to lose should never be on only one device. So if all of your critical content is on a NAS, then it needs to be backed up someplace else. This can be another NAS, a computer or a drive attached to the NAS.

I would not go with AppleTV at this point. It's too bad that the MacMini doesn't have an HDMI out. But if your AV receiver or display can handle taking video from a DVI port (via a DVI to HDMI cable) and audio from a separate output, then I'd get a second MacMini and explore Plex or Boxee for media consumption.

 

[Osamede]

While WHS can be used in a Mac environment, its not the best solution. Look at Netgear Readynas, Qnap, Synology for NAS solutions.

What exactly are the pros/cons of Windows Home Server if you have Macs along with PCs your household?