How to Confirm Connection 5GHz Reception is AC or N?

[twitchyzero]

Hi this might seem like a stupid question to many

this is the first time I don't have access to the hardwired router and modem. I know the router is a AC1200 EA6350. If I have a wifi bridge/another router that also supports AC, is it automatically run on AC when connected to the 5GHz band? Is there a way to check for sure?

 

[sfx2000]

Depends on the client OS - Mac's can tell (Option Click on the Airport icon in the menu bar), Windows might give a hint (depending on drivers), most tablets/smartphones - no...

Just assume that Clients typically will connect at the highest rate/protocol version in any event...

Probably not much to worry about.

 

[twitchyzero]

I'm on Win 8.1 Pro x64 with a Intel NIC 82579V, how do i go about checking this?

using show lan drivers in command would only tell me if it's 5ghz or 2.4ghz but not whether the 5ghz is ac protocol or N?

 

[netwrks]

Typically, that information is found on the router, (attached devices or attached wireless) if the vendor wrote it into the firmware..

 

[azazel1024]

Unless it is disabled, it'll run on 802.11ac. There are several ways you can check this. Wifi sniffers will tell you what the maximum connection speed is as well as channel width. Easy to determine if it is running 11ac that way.

Pull up the wireless bridge/router admin console that you are connecting through, some show you the connected speed.

Short of that, no way to know. I mean, you could run a wireless speed test and see the results, if it is higher than you'd likely get with 11n, it is connecting as 11ac.

Within reason, if both are 11ac enabled, they are connecting as 11ac unless they are connecting on 2.4GHz.

 

[sfx2000]

That is a good point, and one worth repeating - if the Client is 11ac, and the AP is 11ac, regardless of the connect rate, the connection is 11ac - clients don't fall back, e.g. 11ac to 11n to 11a on an 11ac AP...

 

[thiggins]

That is a good point, and one worth repeating - if the Client is 11ac, and the AP is 11ac, regardless of the connect rate, the connection is 11ac - clients don't fall back, e.g. 11ac to 11n to 11a on an 11ac AP...

Really? So when signal levels are really low, 11ac rates and modulation methods are still used?

 

[L&LD]

I would hope that is how they behave. I would hate for a border range AC client to bring the rest of the devices to G class levels of 'performance'.

 

[sfx2000]

Really? So when signal levels are really low, 11ac rates and modulation methods are still used?

That has been my experience... and likely for the best due to improvement in the PHY compared to 11n - if it feel back to 11n, the connection would likely be lost...

 

[sfx2000]

When I just tried, with an AC network and an AC client I managed to get connection rates reported by Windows of 117, 58.5,27,13,11 Mbps(I did have occasional times when I had AC link rates). I don't know if I just read the post wrong or not though.

What AC client adapter and AP in use?

 

[sfx2000]

Also, keep in mind that 11ac can go all the way down to 6.5 Mbps as it's lowest rate...

 

[thiggins]

if it fell back to 11n, the connection would likely be lost...

Why would that be? Devices change connect rates all the time without requiring re-association or re-auth.

I'm not trying to be difficult. Just trying to learn.

 

[azazel1024]

As to what it'll use, well yeah, it'll continue using 802.11ac even when it reduces modulation rates. 802.11ac is more than simply the modulation rate or channel width. There are a lot of other bits of 802.11ac, like the parity standard used, beam forming triangulation packets, etc. Doesn't matter if it is running at 6.5Mbps or 1300Mbps, if both are 802.11ac (client and basestation) and 802.11ac is enabled on router and client, it'll be connected through an 802.11ac connection. It'll only "fall back" if the router or the client has 802.11ac disabled.

Example, some routers you can select 802.11a only, 802.11n only, 802.11ac only, 802.11n/ac only, 802.11a/n only, 802.11a/n/ac.

 

[azazel1024]

Why would that be? Devices change connect rates all the time without requiring re-association or re-auth.

I'm not trying to be difficult. Just trying to learn.

In my experience, 802.11ac seems to have very slightly better range than 802.11n. At my furthest reliable connection range for 5GHz in my house I can get about 3.5MB/sec down and 1MB/sec up with 802.11ac. I cannot connect using my 11n router on 5GHz at that distance. Disabling 802.11ac and using 802.11n only on 5GHz and I cannot connect to my 802.11ac router from my laptop either.

Whether that is some slight gains from beamforming that disappear or other bits that help out, using 802.11n only on my 802.11ac router DOES reduce range, at least very slightly.

 

[RMerlin]

For the original question, Windows 8 and Windows 10 will both report "802.11ac" or "802.11n" on the Performance tab of the Task Manager.

 

[sfx2000]

Why would that be? Devices change connect rates all the time without requiring re-association or re-auth.

I'm not trying to be difficult. Just trying to learn.

Tim, you're not being difficult at all - it's a good question

It'll shift rates alright, and it's good that stations shift rates - can't go full speed if half the frames are errors. So the AP is always watching the channel and connections, and adjusts as needed (and that can be based on frame errors, power, feedback from client sta's, etc - it's all implementation on how those decisions are made).

But as long as it's associated it should maintain the same protocol that was used to associate in the first place. A different MCS perhaps in HT/VHT mode, but generally the same protocol in use.

Same would apply to 11n, and to 11g - one would not want to fall back from G54 to B11 - and miss out on a lot of capability there.

Keep in mind that the newer protocols are much more than just higher order modulation schemes and channel width - not just absolute speed, but better data integrity at lower RSSI levels, including better error correction, frame and ack handling, etc...

 

[sfx2000]

For the original question, Windows 8 and Windows 10 will both report "802.11ac" or "802.11n" on the Performance tab of the Task Manager.

Same goes with Win7 - might not show the actual protocol in use, but the driver will generally offer up the maximum speed for that connection. With Win8 and Win10 - depends on the driver used if it reports the actual protocol in use, or just max speed.

 

[thiggins]

I asked one of my device manufacturer contacts. His reply:

As you know, 11ac is backward compatible with 11n/11a. So, unless strictly set to 11ac greenfield mode, in theory, AP can choose rates from 11ac/11n/11a, as long as client also advertises support for the same rates.

You are right that link rates do change (based on link margin and channel conditions). Operating BW Can also change based on channel availability and interference.

However, 11ac MCS gives higher rates than 11n, e.g. 11ac MCS0 is 6.5Mbps, bit higher than 11n MCS0 (6Mbps). So for a 11ac client , preference would be 11ac waveform.

In 2.4 band, 11ac is not defined, so rate selection will depend on implementation.

 

[twitchyzero]

I guess some times it's easier just to try things before asking!

It was really straight forward. I put my AC56U (on old Merlin fork) into repeater mode, and when selecting parent AP it would say the control channel and the type of protocol like abg, ac

After setup the Linkrate is 59-117Mbps. It's a 100/5 cable broadband connection...speed test I get 75 down 5 up with the parent AP and repeater on opposite ends of a 2 floor wooden house.

 

[remixedcat]

even at low .ac sig str I still have ".ac" reported in the 3 brands of APs I'm currently testing.... it did not "fall back" to N.