recommend ceiling mount access point simultaneous dual or tri band AC1900, 3200

[lifespeed]

I have an old Engenius EAP350 power over ethernet 802.11n 2-antenna access point high power that has served me well for VoIP on the smartphones, laptop access and other portable device support. I have avoided overloading it by running ethernet to the desktop computers.

Recently we got an iPad and my daughter began squashing our VoIP calls by streaming high-bitrate HD movies from the media server. Although my wired network has QoS properly implemented, the EAP350 does not support this. And let's face it, the bandwidth is pretty limited compared to what is available today.

I would like to thoroughly suppress this problem by upgrading the wireless access point. I am rather fond of the ceiling-mount "smoke detector" form factor, and POE is a must. I have a 1500SF single story home with the AP centrally located. The walls are stucco and windows dual pane with anti-reflective coating. I would like decent coverage outside for the smartphones, this probably means connecting them at 2.4GHz.

Other desires are:
3 X 3 MIMO high-gain antennae (better than high power?), and/or high power
supports QoS
simultaneous dual or even tri band (I think tri-band is only simultaneous for two bands?)

A bonus would be compatibility with standards-based 802.11 fast roaming for the smartphones so I could add a second AP later and roam between them while on VoIP. This is probably more a want than a must, it seems this feature is taking forever to hit consumer level.

I would like to spend under $300, although I am willing to consider price vs performance arguments.

Thanks!

 

[lifespeed]

Here is a very impressive Extreme Networks AP3935 Wave 2 MU-MIMO 4X4:4 access point. Would surely keep up with the demand of streaming HD video and simultaneous VoIP calls. Kind of expensive at $800.

The MU-MIMO feature would seem to be quite a benefit. Perhaps the answer is the same as always: "wait for the new stuff, Wave 3".

 

[System Error Message]

ubiquiti, enginius, cisco all have ceiling mount APs.

 

[lifespeed]

ubiquiti, enginius, cisco all have ceiling mount APs.

I know, I have one. I'm looking for state of the art and best performance in that form factor. The "Wave 2" buzzword, Quantenna or Broadcom/Atheros MU-MIMO chipset might be nice.

 

[System Error Message]

you could always try the AC5300 but im not sure it is good to have the heatvents below

 

[GregD]

Lifespeed,

WiFi can be quite a deep dive (hence why we're all here) so beware the temptation of, as Tim says, "bigger numbers on the box." However, you'll definitely see a performance benefit by at least moving to a dual-band AP and utilizing the 5GHz band. Based on what you've stated, the Linksys LAPAC1750 might be a good candidate; SNB has done several reviews on this line. It doesn't necessarily tick all your boxes, but it's modern and affordable. Note that you may require multiple AP's to provide adequate coverage in the 5GHz band; YMMV. My advice is to design for 5GHz and leave 2.4GHz for your legacy or low bandwidth devices.

Regarding your question about gain, please refer to this video which greatly helped me understand the concept (info about gain starts at 1:15).

Remember, your clients' capabilities have to match that of your AP's in order to actually get the expected performance. If all of your client devices are 1x1 or 2x2 (mobile phones, iPad) the 3x3 capability of the AP won't be utilized.

Tim's reviews have shown that MU-MIMO, at this point, needs a lot more work before we should get excited about it. Again, you'll need to replace all of your wireless clients with MU-MIMO capable ones otherwise you're paying for something you won't be able to use.

Hope this info helps you cut through the marketing buzz. Good luck.

 

[lifespeed]

Good price and newish MU-MIMO chipset on the AC5300. Lots of complaints about buggy firmware, however.

I am getting the impression that it may be a bit early to try for a new MU-MIMO dual or tri band, particularly if good firmware, smoke detector access point form factor (not router) and sub-$800 price are desired.

I would be glad to be proven wrong, but it may be I need to stick it out with what I have for another 3 - 6 months . . .

 

[pege63]

This one would fit you well https://www.ubnt.com/unifi/unifi-ap-ac-pro/ you could add a second AP later and roam between them this is wath you looking for i think.

 

[lifespeed]

Based on what you've stated, the Linksys LAPAC1750 might be a good candidate; SNB has done several reviews on this line. It doesn't necessarily tick all your boxes, but it's modern and affordable.

Thanks for the link. That appears to be a nice inexpensive unit that can be purchased today, I'll give it some serious thought. As to buying a second access point to provide coverage at 5GHz, I decided long ago any multiple-AP installation would have to support fast roaming. The manufacturers have been seriously lagging at implementing this, or at least at reasonable price points. And if I'm going to spend that kind of $$ I'll hold out for MU-MIMO to go with dual APs supporting fast roaming. Something tells me this is at least a year away, if not more.

For now 2.4GHz provides adequate range in my house from a single, central AP. Which means the smart phones running VoIP (which value range over speed) will probably remain on 2.4GHz, with the tablet and laptops on 5 GHz.

 

[lifespeed]

This one would fit you well https://www.ubnt.com/unifi/unifi-ap-ac-pro/ you could add a second AP later and roam between them this is wath you looking for i think.

I think Ubiquiti roaming is not standards-based. I have also heard their range is poor.

 

[GregD]

As to buying a second access point to provide coverage at 5GHz, I decided long ago any multiple-AP installation would have to support fast roaming. The manufacturers have been seriously lagging at implementing this, or at least at reasonable price points.

You might not realize that implementing standards-based fast roaming involves setting up RADIUS/802.1x authentication on your network; it's a feature your clients have to support as well. For a home network, I feel like this is excessive especially because the roaming times for a PSK-secured network are pretty short as is. Additionally, I can really only imagine VoIP applications being affecting by roaming in a typical household.

Since you said you plan to keep your VoIP devices on 2.4GHz, you could simply disable the 2.4GHz radios on your second/third AP's, set up a dedicated 2.4GHz SSID on your central AP and then only add this WLAN to your VoIP devices. You'll get the extended range of 2.4GHz and these devices won't be able to roam to your other AP's since they won't find another radio broadcasting the same 2.4GHz SSID. However, this setup allows you to still take advantage of the 5GHz band (802.11ac only works in 5GHz) for your roaming-tolerant devices (laptops, tablets).

Anyway, I went digging in my memory and recalled that SNB did a review on some units from Edimax that feature their own internal RADIUS server should you still want to pursue implementing 802.11 fast roaming in your environment. While their 3x3 smoke-detector form factor unit isn't out yet, their 2x2 unit is downright cheap making it a good choice since you'll be buying at least two. Even if you don't want to bother with multiple AP's, it still might be worth checking out as an alternative to the Linksys I recommended above. See links below for more info.

CAP1200Pro Review
Amazon Link
How To Setup RADIUS SNB

 

[lifespeed]

You might not realize that implementing standards-based fast roaming involves setting up RADIUS/802.1x authentication on your network; it's a feature your clients have to support as well. For a home network, I feel like this is excessive especially because the roaming times for a PSK-secured network are pretty short as is. Additionally, I can really only imagine VoIP applications being affecting by roaming in a typical household.

Yes, I understand the access points have to talk to each other to support fast roaming, and that means a RADIUS server. Perhaps it is overkill for some, but we do use VoIP on smartphones so I think it is warranted. And I have a server running on my home network for other reasons, so no big deal even if I had to run RADIUS on a PC.

The access points you linked are quite inexpensive, I'll look into them further. Fewer antenna per access point becomes much less of an issue when you have more than one AP in the house. And I am impressed they finally thought to just put the RADIUS server in the AP.

Although the Edimax AP aren't the latest and greatest they are priced well and worth considering. If you wait for the latest and greatest, well, you'll wait forever.

 

[lifespeed]

Getting close to pulling the trigger on this. The Edimax CAP1200 2 x 2 AC Dual-Band Ceiling-Mount PoE Access Point looks good at a modest price, although I would still prefer MU-MIMO if I could get it today. And I guess that is the question, any good products come out in the past month that I should be aware of? Still looking for that smoke detector POE from factor, of course. Under $400 would be ideal.

 

[sfx2000]

You might not realize that implementing standards-based fast roaming involves setting up RADIUS/802.1x authentication on your network; it's a feature your clients have to support as well

No hard/fast requirement for fast roaming in 802.11 - some vendors may want it do to their implementation, but even WPA2-PSK can handle fast roaming as long as you have key management in place for the credentials.

Remember your 7 layer stack...

 

[GregD]

No hard/fast requirement for fast roaming in 802.11 - some vendors may want it do to their implementation, but even WPA2-PSK can handle fast roaming as long as you have key management in place for the credentials.

Remember your 7 layer stack...

Good point - perhaps my brush strokes were a bit too wide with that previous statement - sorry for the misinformation. Still, in order to achieve standards-based fast roaming, the client will have to support 802.11r, correct?

Getting close to pulling the trigger on this. The Edimax CAP1200 2 x 2 AC Dual-Band Ceiling-Mount PoE Access Point looks good at a modest price, although I would still prefer MU-MIMO if I could get it today. And I guess that is the question, any good products come out in the past month that I should be aware of? Still looking for that smoke detector POE from factor, of course. Under $400 would be ideal.

How many MU-MIMO clients do you currently own? Why obsess over this "feature" which, so far, only provides advantages in very specific and limited cases, if at all?

 

[sfx2000]

Good point - perhaps my brush strokes were a bit too wide with that previous statement - sorry for the misinformation. Still, in order to achieve standards-based fast roaming, the client will have to support 802.11r, correct?

Yep, and 11k support is nice as well...

 

[lifespeed]

How many MU-MIMO clients do you currently own? Why obsess over this "feature" which, so far, only provides advantages in very specific and limited cases, if at all?

I have at least one, Samsung Galaxy S7. I have a new iPad and laptop also, I will have to check their WLAN chip specs. My wife is getting a new smartphone later this year, it will have MU-MIMO of course.

Why do you question my desire to accomplish the best upgrade for my wireless network dollars?

The issues I am having now are related to multiple devices causing lag to others, with VoIP phone calls being the most affected. MU-MIMO along with another band (5GHz) should go a long way towards addressing this. In fact, MU-MIMO is designed to address the simultaneous use issue. And just to be clear, all the fixed computers are on ethernet. Only mobile devices are using WLAN bandwidth. But they use enough to sometimes cause issues.

Edit: Here is the classic problem; my daughter is streaming a movie from the media server on my local network. This is likely full 1080p blu-ray resolution. Although the media server transcodes it to Apple's chosen format, the bit rate is still quite high. We're not talking Netflix, here. Then the VoIP phone rings and and my wife gets annoyed at the dropped packet call quality. She yells at my daughter to turn off the iPad.

MU-MIMO is what I need.

 

[lifespeed]

The Aruba IAP-315 looks very nice. More than $400, though.

 

[GregD]

I have at least one, Samsung Galaxy S7. I have a new iPad and laptop also, I will have to check their WLAN chip specs. My wife is getting a new smartphone later this year, it will have MU-MIMO of course.

Why do you question my desire to accomplish the best upgrade for my wireless network dollars?

Sorry, I wasn't trying to shame you or anything I just happen to share Tim Higgins' opinion that the benefits of MU-MIMO don't live up to the marketing hype. To assume that MU-MIMO will solve your problem is a big (and potentially costly) leap. A MU-MIMO AP might very well do the trick for you, but using any decent simultaneous dual band AP, with proper design, will probably work just as well.

At this moment, I don't believe any iOS devices support MU-MIMO.

Aruba gear is great in my experience. I install them all the time for businesses - just seems like overkill for the home.

Good luck!

 

[lifespeed]

Had another incident of substandard wifi with my old Engenius EAP350 802.11n access point last night. I think I'm going to finally pull the trigger. After much research it seems I have to stretch to nearly $700 for a high-end AP that supports dual band and MU-MIMO. The Aruba IAP-325 seems like a reasonable compromise between features, future-proof and price. Or maybe not so reasonable, that is quite a lot of $$$ - more than I have ever paid for an access point in the past. But the promise is much better performance than what I have, and we are definitely hitting the limits of our current wireless pretty regularly.

To re-cap, today we have one MU-MIMO device, a Samsung Galaxy S7. All the other devices (2 more Android phones, iPad Air, and three windows 10 laptops) don't have state-of-the-art radios. It is not unusual for 3 or 4 devices to be in use at the same time.

The argument can be made the benefit I'll see with this upgrade is not much better than just buying 802.11ac dual band Wave 1 with SU-MIMO. Such a device would probably be a little more than half the price of the Aruba IAP-325, although I would probably give up some "enterprise" features that I may or may not take advantage of. We geeks usually find a use for these features.

I tend not to upgrade network gear every year or two, so whatever I buy will be on the ceiling for quite some time. I think my EAP350 is 4 or 5 years old. So if I save money and settle for SU-MIMO it will be there long after the remaining phones have been upgraded to MU-MIMO. The time frame on the phone upgrade is less than one year.

Is the Aruba IAP-325 a good bang-for-the-buck choice for the next 5 years?

Edit: Cisco Aeronet 1852 looks like a competitor for closer to $500, but also requires a controller. Usually that means software-as-a-service business models for maximum profit, maybe not really a cost or other advantage.