Wifi setup for large building

[Gapmn]

Can I use two WAP's setup up with the same SSID's and and passwords? If so, would the handoff from one WAP to the other be seamless to the wifi user?

 

[stevech]

WAPs (WiFi AP) are the usual way to add more coverage and/or improve signal strength and thus data rates.

Selecting the "best" AP when in overlapping coverage areas is a problem with generic WiFi. If you have more than about 4 APs, you might want to spend the money to get a managed WiFi system from Aruba or Cisco. With a managing controller, the clients that are pedestrian can be told by the controller which AP to use. But managed WiFi, common in large enterprise deployments, are expensive.

With Consumer type WiFi products, it's all up to the client device as to when to seek a better AP. Some client devices do this better than others. It's always a tradeoff of disrupting the user's traffic to scan/search for a "better" AP. But "better" is not just best signal strength; it's also about distributing the traffic load among APs.

The final story is that the pedestrian user will often see disruptions for a few seconds or less, without a managing controller. When the user has ceased mobility and will dwell in the new coverage area for some time, they can manually choose an AP - and for that they either choose strongest signal or you name the APs to imply their location. This is a PITA for users but unmanaged WiFi is what it is.

If you have more than 2 or so APs, I'd get a pro to design the system - choose AP locations, choose channel numbers per AP, and so on.

 

[Gapmn]

Great information. I will only be using two APs. So, the normal set up would be to use matching SSIDs and passwords on each access point?

 

[CaptainSTX]

You definitely can use the same password for both APs.

You should put each on a different and non over lapping channel.

As stevech said for most setups using a SSID that hints at the location of the AP (i.e. upstairs, downstairs, etc. ) lets individuals pick what is the nearest and therefore probably the strongest and fastest connecting point. Most devices are not that smart about dropping a connection and moving to another stronger signal so they will stay connected to a weak signal to the bitter end. By using the same SSID a user can't tell what is happening and therefore make an intelligent choice to switch APs.

Seamless roaming isn't part of the spec for SOHO grade gear.

You can try using the same SSID but do some testing with your devices and if it isn't working then make the change to multiple SSIDs .

 

[stevech]

depending on the user device(s) you may see that a pedestrian user's device will stick with the first chosen AP and due to mobility its signal lessens, but the client device continues to use it anyway despite a better/nearer AP.

the user can intervene manually to reselect an AP - like "My1stFloor"

Not a problem for the less pedestrian user (reading the device on the go is dangerous!)

how many sq. ft. and floors with the 2APs cover?

Be sure to properly setup the security for the WiFi. Dangerous thing for a business.

 

[azazel1024]

Still being pedantic, most are fairly good about choosing the better AP.

If it is a problem, then toggling wifi off and back on is nearly as fast as manually choosing the better SSID and the client will almost certainly pick the better AP if they have the same SSID, even for sticky clients (I've never seen one fail to pick the stronger AP if you do that, even with the rare sticky client).

Different SSIDs are generally for two things.

1) Clients don't typically roam (example, apartment complex providing wifi on different floors, or dorms) or don't roam much
2) You need different bands seperated or need an explicit AP on a different channel to connect specific clients to

Different named SSIDs for different APs is more likely to cause frustration/work for most users in most circumstances. The better thing to do is TRY using the same SSID across APs and see how well it works. Then if it DOES NOT work, then try different SSIDs and manually switch between them (because in general, the OS/drivers will NOT automatically switch between them if they have different names).

 

[stevech]

Still being pedantic, most are fairly good about choosing the better AP.

If it is a problem, then toggling wifi off and back on is nearly as fast as manually choosing the better SSID and the client will almost certainly pick the better AP if they have the same SSID, even for sticky clients (I've never seen one fail to pick the stronger AP if you do that, even with the rare sticky client).

Different SSIDs are generally for two things.

1) Clients don't typically roam (example, apartment complex providing wifi on different floors, or dorms) or don't roam much
2) You need different bands seperated or need an explicit AP on a different channel to connect specific clients to

Different named SSIDs for different APs is more likely to cause frustration/work for most users in most circumstances. The better thing to do is TRY using the same SSID across APs and see how well it works. Then if it DOES NOT work, then try different SSIDs and manually switch between them (because in general, the OS/drivers will NOT automatically switch between them if they have different names).

I agree about the mobility aspects.
Turning WiFi off/on to force re-selecting Best AP - may not work for some/many clients. Some choose first-heard rather than best signal.

 

[azazel1024]

It may be the case, but it isn't behavior I've seen across a dozen different devices on 3 different OS and maybe a dozen OS flavors (Windows 7, 8, 8.1, iOS5, 6, 7 and 8 and Android 4, 4.1, 4.2, 4.3 and 4.4). Of them, the android devices (ALL of them) seem to be a bit sticky, but not the point of being horrible and/or non-functional because of it. They always choose the closet AP when first connecting though, they'll just stick with it longer than they really should, but still inevitably roam given a bit of time or if I move far enough away from the AP towards the other one.

iOS and Windows (so long as the wireless driver settings are either the default roaming agressiveness, or better yet increase roaming agressiveness) all roam well, promptly and appropriately across a whole slew of devices and OS flavors.

More than anything, its about testing your setup to see what will work best for you. I'd personally go in to it trying a "unified" wireless network with one SSID across all access points/routers and see how well it works. If it gives you problems, you can try tweaking some things (like reducing radio power on the router/AP or changing roaming agressiveness on the device, if that is possible). If that doesn't work, then you may have to fall back to either toggling wifi when you need to force connection to the stronger AP or go with distinct SSIDs for each AP and manually select the best one.

I know for me a unified SSID works best, but it doesn't work best ALWAYS. Facetime has either some crap coding (I suspect) or limitations on the way it must work and if you roam between APs for any reason (whether you manually change what you are selected to or it automatically switches) you lose your facetime session and have to reconnect (only ap/thing I've used that seems to have a real problem with roaming). The bee in the bonnet is, iOS is not smart enough to keep your AP connection longer in an instance where swapping APs is going to cause application issues. This is something I hope they fix, either in facetime or iOS (with the OS being application aware to delay switching APs if necessary) at some point.

It occasionally drives my wife up a wall.

Downside is, with my house construction, it would mean I'd need to setup a 2nd SSID for my wife's phone and just for 2.4GHz and just one access point (as I do have 2.4GHz coverage over my entire house from either the AP or the router, it just isn't very good coverage in parts of my house. It would also mean her "experience" would be compromised on her phone sometimes as she wouldn't be connected to the better wireless basestation at times and also the slower band (as she has an iPhone 6, she has 11ac on 5GHz, 65Mbps 2.4GHz or 150/433Mbps 5GHz...hmmmm, which one would I choose?). Or I can have both with seperate names for 2.4GHz and she can manually switch sometimes (spoiler alert, she never will).

Something I hope Apple gets around to fixing sooner rather than later. Especially as I am doing an addition in a couple of years and ideally my setup will have 4 AP/s routers on 5GHz and probably just 2 or maybe 3 on 2.4GHz (so 1 or 2 would only have the 5GHz radios on). The construction and size lends itself to 4 zones of 5GHz on non-overlapping 80MHz wide channels and 2 zones of 2.4GHz non-overlapping 20Mhz and 40MHz channels (gosh it would be amazing if we could get just enough extra spectrum in 2.4GHz for 4-20MHz channels or 2-40MHz channels). Currently I have 2 zones of 5GHz and 2.4GHz but the addition could really be covered by one of the 2.4GHz zones (if not extremely well covered) and could easily go with one 5GHz downstairs and one 5Ghz upstairs in the addition (tearing down garage and building a new one with master suite over it as well as mud room and studio at the back of the garage). Set the additions APs to 5GHz only, low radio power and modest gain antennas and there should be little to no overlap with anything on the different floors and set on seperate channels, so roaming should be good, bandwidth should be good.

However, if it makes the facetime situation even WORSE than it is now, dunno. My wife uses it often enough. Mostly just sitting on the couch or at the kitchen table, but she does occasionally like to walk around with it.

 

[alexy231ui]

Can I use two WAP's setup up with the same SSID's and and passwords? If so, would the handoff from one WAP to the other be seamless to the wifi user?

WAPs (WiFi AP) are the usual way to add more coverage and/or improve signal strength and thus data rates.