AP supporting 802.11r fast roaming, POE

[lifespeed]

I am looking for a quality access point that supports fast roaming to support VoIP, ideally without the need for a "controller" switch for it to plug into. some of the fast-roaming "enterprise" AP's only work if you plug them into their special switch, which serves the function of forcing you to buy another box and add to the vendor's profit margin.

My ideal AP would support 802.11g,n,r. I don't think 5GHz is actually that helpful for me, as it doesn't go through walls as well. A single radio would probably be fine. Also, I would like three external MIMO antennae.

Am I asking to much?

 

[thiggins]

Two antennas will be fine for dual-stream N.

Might as well look at Cisco 3500 series. Don't know about the fast roaming support, though.

 

[lifespeed]

Ever heard of this one from U4EA wireless? It is only 802.11n (draft 2.0). Is that different from the official 802.11n?

It is a lot cheaper than Cisco 3501e, but you know what they say about that . . .

 

[stevech]

To get true fast roaming, and that's needed only if you are doing WiFi VoIP on the move ( few do that ), get a Cisco (not Linksys) access point, used. Then get a PC side WiFi card that has the Cisco "CCX" extensions. among these is fast roaming.

Aruba has the same.

I know of no cheap consumer WiFi AP/client pairing that has true fast roaming. maybe 802.11r has actually happened in products, but I haven't encountered it.

FAST ROAMING: change of AP in under 50mSec. Consumer WiFi takes seconds, and doesn't handoff security credentials nor VPN sessions, etc.

 

[lifespeed]

To get true fast roaming, and that's needed only if you are doing WiFi VoIP on the move ( few do that ) . . .

Oh, my wife does. And she has pretty high expectations about being able to roam anywhere in the house, or even the yard, while using the phone.

If I'm going to buy any new wifi gear, I should probably do the research to make sure it will be completely satisfactory.

Yeah, I got the impression that 802.11r has not yet trickled down to the consumer level. I also read about some other mfg's talking about fast roaming, but I don't think they have 802.11r. I think there was an earlier version of fast-handoff, but it does not support WPA2 with RADIUS server authentication (typically enterprise use)? So perhaps there is an older standard that works with WPA-PSK, but not WPA2?

Anyway, I appreciate the advice about used Cisco. You believe they all support the standard? I am looking for 802.11n at 2.4 GHz, so don't know how much will be available used, but I'll check.

Why the recommend for the PC wifi card? My desktops are on Gb ethernet, of course. Is it required as the 'server' to negotiate the advance exchange of credentials? Can't two AP's simply negotiate between themselves? That would be a classic Cisco trick; make you buy another box.

 

[stevech]

VoIP on WiFi, if moving. Don't do it in a residential setting unless the user is immobile during calls.

At best, very expensive enterprise grade WiFi is needed.
Cisco and 11r, I don't know. They've used CCX for years to do neighbor-AP list broadcasts using the option fields of the 802.11 beacon. Client device has to do CCX. If that's a VoIP phone handset, it too needs to support CCX.

I don't know if smartphone apps do CCX - I doubt it.

See also vocera's products.

 

[lifespeed]

CCX appears to be a certification program for client devices with Cisco access points. I am not sure if that is simply a check for conforming to the various 802.11 standards, or Cisco 'extra features'.

I am not sure why you are so opposed to VoWifi. It actually works pretty well, even when walking around the house. There are only a couple reception issues caused by some pretty obvious problems, ie; large metal objects that block the signal when standing directly behind (from the router antenna perspective), and extreme distances. I have already confirmed that my smartphone and SIP client can survive a transition between access points, but it is slow without fast roaming support.

I don't think there is a need for the client device to support 802.11r, but I could be wrong. From reading the standard it appears the key is shared between access points, so authentication delays, largely the fault of the AP, are greatly reduced.

I do agree that 802.11r appears to be very early in the phase of integration into hardware. Given that reality, it may make the most sense to hang onto my existing 802.11g AP for awhile longer, holding out until I can buy two 802.11n AP with 802.11r support.

Edit: here is an article on 802.11r. It seems Cisco is the only vendor who has implemented it. And it may require client support. Definitely not here soon.

http://revolutionwifi.blogspot.com/2010/06/its-time-for-80211r.html

Perhaps I'll look at one of the 7 dBi beamforming solutions from Ruckus Wireless.

 

[darkbasic]

Hi,
What about phones? Is there any wireless phone which supports 802.11r?
Can a 802.11g device connect to a 802.11r network?

 

[lifespeed]

Engenius EAP9550 good enough for now

Since I posted this 6 months ago, I have been using an Engenius EAP9550 'smoke detector' access point. It has proper radiation patterns for the location using Air Gain directional antennae in a 2 X 2 MIMO configuration.

I have a small house, 1450 SF, and the access point is centrally located. Wifi coverage is actually really good inside the house and VoWifi call quality is excellent. I can make calls from outside in the yard too, but it is possible to drop packets depending on location.

I plan to continue following developments in the fast roaming space, and will adopt that solution when it becomes available. Likely I will place an access point at each end of the house. This is one of several reasons I have separated my wired and wireless hardware - independent replacement and reconfiguration.

But for now, my VoIP smartphone results have been excellent inside the house.

Edit: just wanted to mention this is a POE access point, an important feature for a ceiling-mounted unit.

 

[darkbasic]

So there is still no 802.11r hardware available?

 

[lifespeed]

Haven't found any that don't require enterprise-level expense and a 'special switch' to plug the AP into. I am interested in 802.11r support that can function just with two AP. I see no reason for a special switch to 'manage' them, they can surely pass the keys and other bits between themselves using a regular switch. All I have seen so far is very expensive stuff designed to force you to buy a 'controller' also.

If you find something, post here. The standard was ratified in 2008. Just to be clear, you will find 802.11r support with an 802.11n device, not instead of.

 

[darkbasic]

Haven't found any that don't require enterprise-level expense and a 'special switch' to plug the AP into.

Do you mean a switch which supports Spanning Tree Protocol to avoid broadcast storms during 802.11 roaming? Can you please tell me something more? I have a Cisco Catalyst 3560 series PoE-24.

 

[lifespeed]

Sorry, I did not buy the hardware in question. I looked into it under the assumption it would be an ideal WLAN coverage solution for VoIP over wifi, which cannot tolerate the 10 - 15 second disconnect when roaming between access points.

From what I could tell, the switch required to be used with the fast-roaming access points had some needed function to implement sharing of keys and controlling of the access points. It struck me as somewhat contrived, but it was clear the AP would not work as 802.11r without the dedicated controller, and it did appear that this switch/controller was specific to the fast roaming AP.

 

[darkbasic]

Do you know at least the name of the hardware in question?

 

[lifespeed]

Here is a good post on the subject.

A quick search turned up the Cisco 1100 and 1200 access points, and some fast roaming info.

 

[pauladams]

Fast roaming on consumer grade cheap hardware - SMESH (www.smesh.org)

To be clear - it's not 802.11r - SMESH co-ordinates between access points for handover. The client device is not aware of any differences.

It has some restrictions, but if cheap WiFi voice is your goal, with roaming without dropping calls, it's working for me...

Been running it for about a year at work with multiple Access Points and Nokia phones using the Nokia SIP client. See www.pauladamsit.com for some more details - it's under the cheap WIFI link on the left.




Regards

Paul Adams

 

[darkbasic]

Thanks, unfortunately I do need Polycom phones

 

[pauladams]

Other alternative is WING. It's not designed only to support voice, (like SMESH), but design to respect all data, preserve QoS, and run as fast as possiple.


I ran it on BuffaloWZR-HP-AG300H units, (600mhz processor, 128 MB ram, approx $100 each).

I found the handover between AP's depended on the device.

For example
- Windows mobile phones worked perfectly.
- Nokia's and iPhones lost the call for approx 1 to 2 seconds, then reconnected.


I would guess (hope?) the Polycom's would work well on this, as they are native VoIP phones, but I don't have one to test.

Paul