are access point as good as mesh at handoff?

[SpaceTofu]

I think it does, thank you again @Trip!
Essentially, if I plan to move to a mansion in the near future, then perhaps I should invest in a Eero Pro or UniFi Mesh; or actually, I better start saving for the hefty mortgage that the mansion would come with!

 

[Trip]

You're welcome! And you are correct regarding the mansion, haha. Even so, there might still be a shot at Orbit working in that instance, too, if you could put the base unit in the middle floor of the center of the mansion, then put satellites a single hop away on either side. It would all boil down to how much material interference (walls, floors, etc.) and square footage. Anyways, that could be a long ways off, but here's hoping you strike it rich and get to hire a consultant like me to come in an build out that system for you! In the meantime, best of luck with Orbi.

 

[coxhaus]

So has anybody done Wi-Fi roaming with the Orbit system. Does it work perfect with iPhones? It is my new quest.

 

[Trip]

Haha, you're new quest. Hopefully your incoming 581's fix the dropout issues. I think I saw in another thread you're attempting to run two of them, as opposed to the original three 371's? Perhaps you can create a more optimal roaming zone (relative RSSI), and/or maybe the 581's will have better .11r/k/v support. Interested to see what happens...

 

[SpaceTofu]

You're welcome! And you are correct regarding the mansion, haha. Even so, there might still be a shot at Orbit working in that instance, too, if you could put the base unit in the middle floor of the center of the mansion, then put satellites a single hop away on either side. It would all boil down to how much material interference (walls, floors, etc.) and square footage. Anyways, that could be a long ways off, but here's hoping you strike it rich and get to hire a consultant like me to come in an build out that system for you! In the meantime, best of luck with Orbi.

To be fair I am doing my due diligence and I don't like what I'm reading!
https://community.netgear.com/t5/Orbi/Seamless-Roaming-Orbi/td-p/1178636
https://community.netgear.com/t5/Or...quot-handoff-quot-from-router-to/td-p/1249444

Seems to me that Orbi is not that great with respect to handoff.
Looks like it is a shared opinion that Eero and Unifi are much better at this; seeing that Eero is a bit hard to get in UK, looks like Unifi is the winner!

By the way, great feeling to be had meanwhile reading those pages: seamless steering and band steering, beamforming and sticky clients, all knowledge that I have gathered over here, thanks!

 

[Trip]

In the consumer space, yes, Eero has historically been better in the roaming/handoff arena. Eero Pro is usually my go-to suggestion for consumer mesh.

In regards to UniFi, it's 802.11r/k/v support was initially non-existant and/or pretty poorly implemented. Per threads such as this one, things have improved in the past couple years, with .11k and .11r more less fully implemented, with a bit of gray area around 802.11v, per that thread and similar ones from this year.

As you can see, reliable seamless roaming as a whole hasn't been so easily implemented by many products. I attribute this to many makers simply not wanting to put the development overhead into it, at least not until recently, where now the feature is becoming asked-for even in the consumer space. Thus my Ruckus-on-the-cheap suggestions, as it's really only been reliably available in the enterprise space, even up until recently (as we've observed).

I would say either Omada with the OC200 or UniFi with a CloudKey Gen2 would serve you very well. TP-Link will be cheaper and still work; UniFi will have more features and a far-better software/hardware ecosystem.

 

[SpaceTofu]

It is indeed totally understandable for manufacturers not to put money and time into researching something that consumers don't want/need.
(Un)fortunately, that need/want is starting to become stronger, can easily be seen here in the UK as providers are starting to roll out the extra package of "complete WiFi" to their broadband offering (and it is usually quite dear, £5 or £7 I think?)

Confirming the above trends, yesterday it has been announced that Eero is back with a new product, set for launch in UK in November! (I so didn't know it was an Amazon product)
https://www.techradar.com/au/news/new-amazon-eero-mesh-wi-fi-system-is-here-to-tackle-google-wifi
In my situation, probably worth waiting for this to come out and see how it performs.

On a different note, it actually occurred to me that maybe I don't even need a mesh WiFi?
My house is not extremely big. Up until current times we have always made do with the ISP router and this extra PoE device (TP-LINK TL-WPA8630P, probably one of the best at the time of purchase).
Maybe a very good router, centrally located would serve the whole house decently. No handoff dramas in that scenario!
Fear not that all your explanations were in vain, as the father in law complained again about the signal being so poor on the ground floor in their house (3 storeys). I know who is going to be my guinea pig!

 

[pauljbl]

Hi I have been reading this thread with interest hope you don't mind me jumping in with some questions.

I am looking to buy a unifi, rockus r500 or aruba instant with wired backhaul and wondered which is the best at roaming?

Does the unifi need the controller on all the time for the roaming to work properly?

 

[Trip]

You only need the UniFi controller if you want to make config/topology changes, log/examine stats, run external authentication and/or serve content like a guest portal. Roaming will work just fine without the controller. You may also want to look at Cisco Small Business wifi, which, although it lacks true controller capability, can centrally manage APs in "cluster", and also supports roaming just about as well as UniFi does.

Beyond that, Aruba and Ruckus's main strengths are controller-less firmwares (Instant and Unleashed), more complete SDN integration with Aruba, and interference mitigation and density handling with Ruckus. All of that, though, is probably not needed for a SOHO install (other than maybe some interference mitigation if you have a lot of networks and/or physical barriers around). UniFi or similar will likely be "good enough".

 

[coxhaus]

So are you saying Ruckus can run without a controller or with a controller? When do you need a controller?

 

[pauljbl]

Do any of theses systems have better handoffs when roaming to be more seemless?

 

[Trip]

So are you saying Ruckus can run without a controller or with a controller? When do you need a controller?

Well, Ruckus always runs with a software controller, but it doesn't always have to be located on a separate appliance or VM. With the ZoneFlex firmware you need an actual ZoneDirector hardware controller or virtual SmartZone controller. With Unleashed firmware, however, the controller is embedded into the AP firmware, so even though a controller is being run, it's running embedded on the APs themselves. HPE Aruba Instant works roughly the same way. The nice thing about Ruckus is that you can flash either Unleashed or ZoneFlex firmware on any AP SKU, regardless of its original firmware out-of-the-box. Hope that helps to clarify.

Do any of theses systems have better handoffs when roaming to be more seemless?

All I can give is general experience here, and say that I've never once has a problem with Ruckus, on either firmware train, with handoff. This is from several deployments in businesses and high-end homes. I have dealt with UniFi being a bit glitchy in that department 3+ years ago, but it looks as though they've cleaned up their act since then. I would still do your due diligence on them and jump into their forums for a good while to examine where they're at.

That said, If budget was of no concern, you can hardly ever go wrong with top-end enterprise gear... I mean, if they can't get it right, who can? That is provided you or helpers are well-versed enough to configure and install it properly -- like anything else.

 

[pauljbl]

Would you choose unifi over the omada tplink

 

[Trip]

In your scenario I would likely choose UniFi over Omada, because 1) with Omada, an OC200 controller is required in order to ensure active 802.11r/k/v support (with UniFi it's not required to be running) and 2) UniFi is a way more mature code base with a more robust hardware and support ecosystem behind it at this point, especially if you're in the USA (UniFi Elite support).

 

[pauljbl]

Does the unifi have active 802.11r/k/v support?


Also
Do the google WiFi systems just use 802.11k/v/r for roaming or do they have special trickery for roaming or is it just hype we read about them?
Just keep reading they are perfectly seemless

 

[Trip]

Does the unifi have active 802.11r/k/v support?

802.11k and .11r, basically yes. .11v.... a bit of a gray area, but I believe the implementation is almost as complete as the enterprise stuff. You'll have to check their forums. A bit less tweakable than full enterprise like Aironet, but I would say they've got the 80% of the 80/20 rule covered.

Do the google WiFi systems just use 802.11k/v/r for roaming or do they have special trickery for roaming or is it just hype we read about them? Just keep reading they are perfectly seemless

Yes, Google Wifi's marketing jargon of "band steering" is basically just support for 802.11r/k/v support, but again, I would search the heck out of reviews and other places to confirm how well the implementation works in the real world. Along those lines, another product you may want to look at is Ubiquiti Amplifi, the more consumer version of UniFi (more or less). It implemented 802.11r/k/v in January of 2018, and supposedly it's fairly bug-free and works pretty well, even with Apple clients (which is saying something...).

 

[pauljbl]

Does the rockus have good 802.11r/k/v support?

Deciding if to go unifi or get some second hand r500 rockus

 

[Trip]

Does the rockus have good 802.11r/k/v support?

Spelling correction: Ruckus -- not Rockus. And yes, it has some of the best roaming facilitation I've ever used (and I've used most stuff). Probably enhanced by having better radio tech than mostly anything else out there currently.

Deciding if to go unifi or get some second hand r500 rockus

I'd try two R500's off eBay, flash Unleashed 200.7.10.102.64 (the last release for the R500), if it's not already on there, and give them a shot (you have to create an account at support.ruckuswireless.com in order to download). Here's the step-by-step setup video (only 6 minutes!); from flashing to finished config, should take you less than a half-hour if you know what you're doing. You might want to watch that video first to see what you'd be dealing with, before deciding which way you want to go.

Addition: If you try it and find it works well for you, but need more range, you can scale up to 50 APs. Also, the more APs you can wire in, the better, but it will support mesh if you need it; just have to make sure you tick that "Mesh" checkbox on the first screen of the setup wizard.

 

[pauljbl]

Thankyou for the advice

 

[Trip]

You're welcome! Best of luck.