BE98 insists on putting my 2.4ghz onto unusual channels

[ewokuk]

Been playing around with my wifi settings to optimise it and noticed that when on auto, my BE98 insists on setting the 2.4ghz band to channels that are different to the multiple other networks around here. Every single other router in range (13 at last count) uses either 1, 6 or 11 so they all stack nicely on top of each other. My BE98 never, ever uses 1, 6 or 11, it's always the odd one out, currently using 7 but I have seen it on 9, 2 and 3 before I think.

My question is why does my BE98 specifically insist on doing this when 13 other routers all use those standard channels and play nicely with all the others? As far as I am aware, from reading about it a few years ago, it's best to have wifi set to the SAME channel (when no completely free space is available) rather than having an odd overlap with other networks, because on the same channel it avoids interference (because of something like it can then identify traffic for another network and ignore it vs just seeing it as interference) and can play nicer with the other networks. I don't remember the technical details but that was the gist of it.

So is there a specific reason it is doing this when none of the other routers are? And, is what I read a few years ago correct? in which case it seems I should manually assign it to 1, 6 or 11 (although this defeats the point in having auto, which can let it switch channels if some interference appears and in theory should pick the optimal channel to use).

 

[bbunge]

Your router knows better which channel to use. I, too, was under the 1, 6, 11 (13) channel selection rule at one time. But, I decided to let the router search my WIFI environment and choose its own channel(s). I have not been disappointed and the WIFI works very well. Some of my neighbors force 40 MHz on the 2.4 GHz WIFI which does interfere with others. So I let my router choose and it is more powerful than others which does force close neighbors routers to change their channel.

 

[jzchen]

They actually do not play nicely together, unless they are meshed which is why they are stacked nicely and the same (band)width. You don't want yours running on the same channel(s) as your neighbors...

 

[ewokuk]

They actually do not play nicely together, unless they are meshed which is why they are stacked nicely and the same (band)width. You don't want yours running on the same channel(s) as your neighbors...

You contradicted yourself. They should be stacked.....but shouldn't be on the same channel. Which is it?

And why would a hugely expensive brand new WiFi 7 Asus router insist on NOT stacking it if it needs to be stacked? Surely when it does it's auto scan it can see 13 other networks all on 1, 6, 11 so it should be pretty easy for it to just pick the best of those.....Are Asus just crap? Is the router faulty? Or is there a valid reason they should NOT be stacked in this case?

 

[jzchen]

Sorry if I wasn't clear. Mesh keeps same channel and bandwidth so moving devices can "hop" from node to node.

 

[jzchen]

If you have a CB radio and you want to chat with a friend do you want a stranger using the same channel?

 

[ewokuk]

Sorry if I wasn't clear. Mesh keeps same channel and bandwidth so moving devices can "hop" from node to node.

Right, but what has mesh systems got to do with anything here?

If you have a CB radio and you want to chat with a friend do you want a stranger using the same channel?

What are you talking about? CB radios are not encrypted so everyone would hear what everyone else was saying....wifi is encrypted. And the picture i attached in op clearly shows a fully utilized 2.4ghz band that has no completely empty space on it. There *HAS* to be an overlap of some sort.

The $700+ router insists on making it a partial overlap every single time (which, again, I read was a bad thing many years ago, but I dont know if that has now changed with much newer wifi standards and hardware), and 13 other routers all stack on 1,6,11. So again, is this a $700 piece of junk that SHOULD be picking 1/6/11 so that it plays nicely with the other networks, or is there a valid reason it keeps picking odd channels, meaning this router is actually better than the other 13 that are in range, rather than worse.

I think the answer is that auto selection is junk and simply doesnt work properly because I noticed on 5ghz-2, which is almost entirely clear, it likes to pick channel 149, but according to the web interface I get higher tx/rx stats on channel 100, so assuming those tx/rx numbers on the web interface are meaningful, channel 100 is better and auto is simply not picking the optimum channel for the best speeds .

 

[OzarkEdge]

So again, is this a $700 piece of junk that SHOULD be picking 1/6/11 so that it plays nicely with the other networks, or is there a valid reason it keeps picking odd channels, meaning this router is actually better than the other 13 that are in range, rather than worse.

The 'valid reason' is the router's Auto determination of the least congested control+extension channels for the given signal bandwidth (usually 20MHz) and all other 2.4 band users/noise nearby... all radio signals/noise in the 2.4 band, not just WiFi networks.

To know how valid a reason, you would need to compare your actual wireless network performance for each of the possible control channels 1-11.... over time. Easier said than done.

If nearby networks are strictly using 2.4 channels 1,6,11; then I would suspect those networks are not set to Auto control channel. So, comparing them to your router set to Auto is not a valid comparison. A valid comparison would require evaluating your actual wireless network performance for each possible control channel, not just comparing channel numbers.

For a new network/location, I would set and use Auto control channel for a few days or weeks and keep an eye on how the router and clients behave. Once you notice Auto control channel camping on the same channel, you could then choose to set/fix that channel to avoid Auto channel changes that the user may generally only notice as disruptive to their client connection and not particularly performance improving... it's good enough for what can remain a moving target, 'how to best utilize/share the 2.4 band with other nearby users/noise that can come and go'.

Your over-priced $700+ residential router could still be a piece of juck, but not because it uses Auto control channel like many routers do.

OE

 

[jzchen]

Chill pill... How come I remember that term?

For what it's worth...

 

[ewokuk]

The 'valid reason' is the router's Auto determination of the least congested control+extension channels for the given signal bandwidth (usually 20MHz) and all other 2.4 band users/noise nearby... all radio signals/noise in the 2.4 band, not just WiFi networks.

To know how valid a reason, you would need to compare your actual wireless network performance for each of the possible control channels 1-11.... over time. Easier said than done.

If nearby networks are strictly using 2.4 channels 1,6,11; then I would suspect those networks are not set to Auto control channel. So, comparing them to your router set to Auto is not a valid comparison. A valid comparison would require evaluating your actual wireless network performance for each possible control channel, not just comparing channel numbers.

For a new network/location, I would set and use Auto control channel for a few days or weeks and keep an eye on how the router and clients behave. Once you notice Auto control channel camping on the same channel, you could then choose to set/fix that channel to avoid Auto channel changes that the user may generally only notice as disruptive to their client connection and not particularly performance improving... it's good enough for what can remain a moving target, 'how to best utilize/share the 2.4 band with other nearby users/noise that can come and go'.

OE

Ok but the other routers are all ISP supplied routers for other nearby residents and I've seen them move around, but still almost always 1/6/11. I have on the rare occasion seen one on a different channel than those, but it never stayed there for long and doesn't happen much. So they are set to auto, there is zero chance they are being manually set. It feels like the other routers are set to play nicely and stack on whatever the least congested channel is that the other routers are using, rather than picking something else, which this Asus constantly insists on doing.

The BE98 definitely seems to like channel 7 and always seems to end up there. But as far as I am aware, the theory is it's best to avoid partial overlaps on 2.4ghz and better to stack on the exact same channel than have any partial overlap?, which would mean what the other routers are doing makes more sense than what the BE98 is doing if that is correct.

I will see if I can run a bunch of speed tests on different channels next week but it's not just my speed, I don't want to be causing interference for everyone else either and I can't test for that.

 

[jzchen]

Pretty sure WiFi 7 is supposed to have preamble puncturing...

 

[bbunge]

The ISP provided routers in my neighborhood, Centurylink/Brightspeed, seem to choose 2.4 GHz channels 1, 6 or 11. The cable provider, Zito, provided modem/routers pick any channel.
AS I stated, your router knows more about WIFI than you do or and Ai chat....

 

[OzarkEdge]

Ok but the other routers are all ISP supplied routers for other nearby residents and I've seen them move around, but still almost always 1/6/11. I have on the rare occasion seen one on a different channel than those, but it never stayed there for long and doesn't happen much. So they are set to auto, there is zero chance they are being manually set.

You assume a lot and then debate it.

It feels like the other routers are set to play nicely and stack on whatever the least congested channel is that the other routers are using, rather than picking something else, which this Asus constantly insists on doing.

The BE98 definitely seems to like channel 7 and always seems to end up there. But as far as I am aware, the theory is it's best to avoid partial overlaps on 2.4ghz and better to stack on the exact same channel than have any partial overlap?, which would mean what the other routers are doing makes more sense than what the BE98 is doing if that is correct.

Stacking is not a thing.

Multiple APs using channel 6 are overlapping by 100%.

I will see if I can run a bunch of speed tests on different channels next week but it's not just my speed, I don't want to be causing interference for everyone else either and I can't test for that.

You're overthinking it for what you can hope to determine on your own. Set Auto and fix it later if you see reason to. Sounds like channel 7 will give you good results. I fixed channel 11 here and simply waited for my neighbors' routers to move off channel 11... now their routers on Auto fight it out mostly away from channel 11 frequencies.

OE

 

[ewokuk]

I think I will just manually set it to channel 6 (which has the lowest signal strength between the other nearby networks) and see what happens, the other networks may just move out of my way then

Thanks all

 

[OzarkEdge]

Pretty sure WiFi 7 is supposed to have preamble puncturing...

I had to go look this up... interesting function that may eventually improve spectrum utilization, especially with wide bandwidths... but requires support on both ends, router and client, and does not apply to the 2.4 band.

OE

 

[jzchen]

I had to go look this up... interesting function that may eventually improve spectrum utilization, especially with wide bandwidths... but requires support on both ends, router and client, and does not apply to the 2.4 band.

OE

Really, 2.4 GHz is excluded? Darn and I thought Netgear (Orbi 970) was genius for leaving the 2.4 GHz radio AX (for compatibility). The repercussions for dual band WiFi 7 routers would be terrible. Because MLO and preamble puncturing would all but make the OPs concern go away...

 

[OzarkEdge]

Because MLO and preamble puncturing would all but make the OPs concern go away...

Doubtful!

OE