Help with buying new wireless router please

[aphexacid]

Hi all,

I've had my wrt54gl for about 6 or 7 years now. It's been hooked up to 5Mbps adsl for the entire time, and i've never had 1 problem. I have thibor 15c firmware on it.

Recently, at&t decided to put a 150GB cap on all adsl connections. That coupled with the fact that i was just aching for something faster...I upgraded to 50Mbps from comcast.

Needless to say, the ole linksys doesnt cut it anymore.

There are SO many options, and i have been reading for about 1 week. I had a horrible experience with netgear years ago. it needed to get unplugged pretty much everyday.

I live in a 1300 sq ft condo. single floor.

Here are my needs:

* STABILITY! literally the only time my wrt54gl was turned off is when i lose power. I dont want some POS that needs rebooting constantly.

* Wifi is all i use. Its extremely important that i get best range and speed on wifi.

* I download torrents a lot. and other p2p.

* upnp is not overall a must, but i do like it. I'm lazy, and hate opening ports for every other program i use.

Here is what i have:

An HDX with a 5100agn.

2008 white macbook with N card.

various smartphones including some with N chips.

360 with the old non N wifi adapter.

Original fat 60GB ps3 (i dont think it has N)

roku box ( no N)

thats about it.


I've been reading and it seems the Netgear wndr3700v2 might be good for me. But will the 4096 simultaneous connections be a problem for me? I'm not even sure what that means really. It sure seems low compared to the Linksys E4200's 40,000!

Here are the routers i have in mind:

Netgear Wndr3700v2

Linksys E4200

ASUS RT-N56U



Thanks in advance fellas!

 

[thiggins]

Assuming you limit your torrent connections to numbers in the 100s of connections, the NETGEAR's 4096 simultaneous connections shouldn't be a problem.

Any of your suggestions should be ok. But some routers just don't like some products. So buy from somewhere that you can return without restocking. That probably limits you to the Linksys and NETGEAR.

 

[aphexacid]

Assuming you limit your torrent connections to numbers in the 100s of connections, the NETGEAR's 4096 simultaneous connections shouldn't be a problem.

Any of your suggestions should be ok. But some routers just don't like some products. So buy from somewhere that you can return without restocking. That probably limits you to the Linksys and NETGEAR.

Hey, thanks for the reply!

I think i'm going to go for the E4200. What made it a sweeter deal is that my niece's boyfriend happens to work at best buy and is going to get me a discount.

Only hang up i have is if the E4200 has UPNP to open ports? i cant find if it does or not?

 

[aphexacid]

Ah yes! I found it in the manual.

It does have upnp!

sold!

 

[aphexacid]

For anyone interested:

i bought the E4200 without discount from best buy. Total was $197.

Did a manual setup. Configured all my settings. Tested my internet speed, and finally i was getting the full speed im paying for over wifi.

Unfortunately, the range on this "6 antenna" router is no better than my 7 year old WRT54GL.

I did the firmware upgrade, tried a few different settings, switched between 20 and 40 modes. tried all the channels.

Nothing helped. Its literally the SAME range as my old router. I was shocked.

The router also runs uncomfortably warm.

I returned it the same day. $200 is not worth it. If i'm going to get the same range, then i can pick from SO many other cheaper routers.

Shame really. It was a very nice looking piece.

I almost bought the Apple AE, but i had a feeling i wouldnt be impressed by that one either, and its the same price.

I think i'm going to look at the Asus Black Diamond.

Anyone have anything to say about it?

 

[thiggins]

As you have learned, unless you are upgrading from a very old router, 802.11n does not increase range.

See SmallNetBuilder's Wireless FAQ: The Essentials #3

 

[aphexacid]

I never said that i thought N would increase my range. I assumed that since the E4200 is a new router, 7 years after the purchase of my 54GL there would be some sort of advancements in range. Better antenna technology, who knows.

But that wasnt the case.

 

[hawkeye62]

For anyone interested:

i bought the E4200 without discount from best buy. Total was $197.

Did a manual setup. Configured all my settings. Tested my internet speed, and finally i was getting the full speed im paying for over wifi.

Unfortunately, the range on this "6 antenna" router is no better than my 7 year old WRT54GL.

I did the firmware upgrade, tried a few different settings, switched between 20 and 40 modes. tried all the channels.

Nothing helped. Its literally the SAME range as my old router. I was shocked.

The router also runs uncomfortably warm.

I returned it the same day. $200 is not worth it. If i'm going to get the same range, then i can pick from SO many other cheaper routers.

Shame really. It was a very nice looking piece.

I almost bought the Apple AE, but i had a feeling i wouldnt be impressed by that one either, and its the same price.

I think i'm going to look at the Asus Black Diamond.

Anyone have anything to say about it?

I am a little late with a response, but here is my take.

One floor with 1300 square feet is not a big space to cover with wireless unless you have serious obstructions between the AP and your clients. My experience indicates that a good G wireless router has better range than a wireless N. That said, at less than maximum range a wireless N router should give you better throughput than a G router. When you say the range with the E4200 is no better than the WRT54G, what exactly do you mean? At the same distance from the router do you get less signal strength or less throughput or both with the E4200?

As an aside, my neighborhood has about 10-12 wireless signals that I can "see" in my house. All have signal strengths less than 20% as measured by Net Surveyor, except for one which is a WRT54G located about 150 feet away. It gives about 35% signal strength!

Good luck, Jim

 

[stevech]

The range, in most cases, is constrained by the transmitter power at the clients (PCs, etc)!

 

[hawkeye62]

The range, in most cases, is constrained by the transmitter power at the clients (PCs, etc)!

Well, in my experience, at my location, when ever AP signal strength as measured by Net Surveyor, is 45-50% or greater, I get good throughput with any of my clients, Ipod, Ipad, Netgear USB and Asus Netbook. And when the AP signal strength is less than 40%, connection is iffy and if I do connect, throughput is low.

And, APs I have tried with 20dBm or less Tx power just don't reach my clients location with more than 40% signal strength, while two APs I have that have 26-28 dBm TX power, give 60% or greater signal strength and very good throughput.


Thanks, Jim

 

[aphexacid]

When you say the range with the E4200 is no better than the WRT54G, what exactly do you mean? At the same distance from the router do you get less signal strength or less throughput or both with the E4200?

Hi Hawkeye, thanks for helping!

What i meant is that, in general, i cant go any further than i do with my wrt54gl. Such as, out on my front balcony, which is on the opposite side of my condo as the router, but still only about 30 feet away.

Also, in my bedroom, using istumbler with my macbook, i get the same 50% i get with my wrt54gl.

I have purchased another one however. Newegg has the E4200 now and its $159 with free shipping and no tax! $40 savings for me, and makes it much more desirable.

 

[hawkeye62]

Hi Hawkeye, thanks for helping!

What i meant is that, in general, i cant go any further than i do with my wrt54gl. Such as, out on my front balcony, which is on the opposite side of my condo as the router, but still only about 30 feet away.

Also, in my bedroom, using istumbler with my macbook, i get the same 50% i get with my wrt54gl.

I have purchased another one however. Newegg has the E4200 now and its $159 with free shipping and no tax! $40 savings for me, and makes it much more desirable.

Good luck with the new E4200. Based on Tim's performance charts, the E4200 should give much better performance than the WRT54G. I have been watching the price of the E4200 and have been thinking about getting one, but I have seen several posts about low signal strength. My Ubiquiti AP gives me whole house coverage, so I really don't want to buy an E4200 if performance is less than great.

Keep us informed about your experience.

Jim

 

[stevech]

It's disconcerting that people judge WiFi router coverage by its transmitted signal strength. This does not consider the from-client transmission - this being the receiver sensitivity in the router/access point. Indeed, the nature of the 802.11 standard largely defines the achievable receiver sensitivity, and this varies little among products.

WiFi is not a one-way broadcast. The rock-band concert with huge amplified speakers is a good analogy. You hear them - they'll likely not hear you! If you're in the front row and screaming, maybe some words will get through.

 

[aphexacid]

It's disconcerting that people judge WiFi router coverage by its transmitted signal strength. This does not consider the from-client transmission - this being the receiver sensitivity in the router/access point. Indeed, the nature of the 802.11 standard largely defines the achievable receiver sensitivity, and this varies little among products.

WiFi is not a one-way broadcast. The rock-band concert with huge amplified speakers is a good analogy. You hear them - they'll likely not hear you! If you're in the front row and screaming, maybe some words will get through.

So you're saying i need to measure the strength of the signal going from my pc/client to the router? How do i achieve this? currently i have a status section, that gives me a list of all items connected to the router, andthe pc im using now says -75dbm under the RSSI category. Is that it? Is that decent?

 

[aphexacid]

Alrighty! So here is the latest and greatest with my wireless router fiasco!

Here are the routers i have tried:

Linksys E4200 x3 (bought 3 times)

Asus RT-56U Black Diamond

Netgear WNDR3700v2

Netgear WNDR4000

Apple Airport Extreme


Before i begin, as i have stated previously, i live in a 1300sqft condo, with apparently LOADS of 2.4ghz networks around me. My router is in my Living room, about 25 feet from my office. And unless my walls are lined with Lead, its a standard issue modern condo.

Original aggravation came with me being angry that i wasnt getting better range with the E4200 than my WRT54GL. This most likely caused me to make some hasty decisions, but at least now i can say that the router i have now, is the best for me, since i've tried damn near ALL of them.

So here is a regular joe schmoe / non router expert review of the ones i tried.



Apple AE: This thing sucks majorly. I got the least 2.4ghz speed on this thing. Probably due to the fact that the signal seemed to barely reach. My speed test results were also very erratic. 5ghz range obviously even worse, but it smoothed out the speed. Unfortunately, it dropped the connection frequenrlty. I read some bad stuff, but figured i'd give it a shot.
This thing gets BLAZING hot. And its sucks that you have to have the utility installed on your mac or pc (i have both) to get into the config.
This was the worst of all by far.

Next worst was the WNDR4000. I didnt play with it long because it seemed to freeze up every 30 minutes or so. And the wireless dropped every few minutes. I'll chalk it up to it being a newbie, and early firmware. But when it was working, It still didnt give me the smooth as silk connection i got on my E4200 on 5Ghz. 2.4ghz was also a little worse. Seems to run at a fairly normal operating temp. Also, your standard netgear config gui.

WNDR3700v2: I had a tiny glimmer of hope for this when it seemed to give me a more steady 2.4ghz connection than the e4200. Looking at the speed test graph, it was a little bit less erratic. 5.4ghz speed was not as good as the e4200. But none of that matters because although it didnt freeze on me as much as the 4000, i used the 3700 for 3 days, and on the second day, i came home to a big torrent download i was expecting to be finished, when lo and behold, it wasnt even close. Why? Router froze at some point.
Typical Netgear crap. I have never had a good experience with their products and i seriously dont think i'll ever even bother with them again. They're just unstable in all my time using them.

Asus RT-56U black diamond: I had high expectations for this one. Everyone seems to love it, and if it werent for a few things, it would have worked out for me. But in the time i used it, i couldnt get UPNP to work right. This may not seem like a big deal to most, but it is to me. I had this same problem with the WNDR4000, but not the 3700. The 2.4ghz range and speed is pretty much equal to the e4200 in my office. But out on the balcony, its much worse than the e4200. Theres a brick wall it has to pass though, so i'm guessing thats it, but i lose about 6Mbps vs the e4200. 5Ghz range was lower than the e4200, but it was steady.

The router itself is very stable. It never froze up on me at all. It does worry me that it gets so warm though. Not blazing like the apple, but the asus gets very warm almost instantly after plugging it in. Its a sexy looking router though.

The most irritating thing about it is the interface. holy crap. Its like a poorly designed website. Things are all over the place, and it will take you forever to get used to it.
Even more annoying is the fact that every single change i made required the router to reboot. Well, i assume thats what its doing. Either reboot, or ponder the meaning of life for the next 2 minutes.

VERY annoying. Even changes like setting your time zone.


E4200: I bought my third one from Newegg for $159. After playing with it, and taking some advice from a friend, which i dont know why i didnt do in the first place, i'm actually very happy with it.
It really does get the best range and speed of all the routers i tried. I am NOT using 2.4ghz for my main computers. This is what was giving me the headache the entire time. I was looking for groundbreaking range and speed and i just wasnt getting it. It seems like 2.4ghz is just a major struggle when you have about 28 2.4 ghz networks around you. 5Ghz? NONE. Just me. And its GREAT. I get 200-something Mbps transfer speed on files in my office. And obviously i am now able to take full advantage of my internet speed.
The router is functioning perfectly. Been on 24/7 since i plugged it in. No freezes, hiccups. It gets slammed with all kinds of traffic, and never breaks a sweat. I love the FTP feature on it. I know its nothing new, but i love using it.
If 0 is cold, 50 is warm and 100 is hot, i'd say this runs at like 60-65. Its not too bad.

Also, its the most handsome looking piece of all. No obnoxious white. Very understated, and no annoying flashing lights! The lights are on the back of it, and can be turned off completely. There is just a single cisco logo thats lit up on top when its on and thats it.

gui is standard linksys stuff. Easy to navigate, and setup to to suit your needs. Every function worked perfectly. UPNP as well

So thats about it. I wish i would have tried living with 5GHZ in the beginning. I think i just got frustrated too fast, and was expecting who knows what.

Out of all the ones i tried, i definitely recommend the E4200. Its stable, fast and has the best range out of the bunch. Buy it from newegg though so you can save some moolah.

Funny anecdote...I noticed the other day that i get my wifi connection from about 1/2 block away on my iphone 4 LOL. I got about 1Mbps on the speed test. I guess that just goes to show that my condo is just a smorgasbord if 2,4ghz signal.

How i havent grown horns yet is a mystery...