Home Mesh Wi-Fi Coming This Summer From eero

[thiggins]

So are you saying that if eero is set up using a wired backhaul, that it can't dynamically adjust transmit power across the nodes? If so, that would be a bummer given I prefer to put as much of my network on the wire as possible.

No, I didn't say that at all.

 

[headcase]

Ok, thanks. That's great.

 

[Parkerthon]

I am the IT guy in the family and have multiple households I support that complain about Wi Fi performance because they all have tons of devices. I recommended Eero early on and the family I had previously set up a two AP wired over Powerline Ethernet solution for loves it. The problem with traditional AP based wireless is even if non-technical people find someone with the skills to put it in, they won't be able to maintain it, and will have to have someone for support if something blows up.

Frankly, as a very capable technical guy, I'm frustrated by my 4 AP system dropping facetime and voice calls when roaming between Asus RT-AC68U AP's with a Netgear R7000 router. Nothing like trying to explain to the wife that we really have near perfect wi-fi coverage across our sprawling house except when she walks around while talking. Apparently NAT acceleration(CTF) may be the root of my issues from what I understand.

Anyone have any suggestions on what the best Wireless AC AP solution is currently for a wired backbone for apple devices? Not trying to drop a couple grand on AP's either, looking consumer if such a thing exists.

 

[sfx2000]

Frankly, as a very capable technical guy, I'm frustrated by my 4 AP system dropping facetime and voice calls when roaming between Asus RT-AC68U AP's with a Netgear R7000 router. Nothing like trying to explain to the wife that we really have near perfect wi-fi coverage across our sprawling house except when she walks around while talking. Apparently NAT acceleration(CTF) may be the root of my issues from what I understand.

Anyone have any suggestions on what the best Wireless AC AP solution is currently for a wired backbone for apple devices? Not trying to drop a couple grand on AP's either, looking consumer if such a thing exists.

Well... the wandering around talking thing - this is a priority eh?

FWIW - Airports do support 11r/11k, and in a roaming config, they just flat out work as access points - provided of course that you daisy chain them... let one be the parent, and the children, like processes, attach to them...

My setup at present...

Broadband Cloud - pfSense (as ingress router/firewall) - Airport1 (WAN as bridged and as local AP), Airport2 (as remote AP) attached to LAN1 of Airport1 -

everything wired/managed via Airport utility.. DHCP/DNS/Routing all handled by pfSense...

Airport1 LAN2 is out to an 8 port switch for the rest of the LAN - including Homeplugs to the entertainment center...

Airport Expreme AC's are probably past their prime as routers, but they still make for darn fine AP's... and they work well together... my only complaint is that the AC versions don't have a good SNMP solution..

 

[Parkerthon]

I caveated my comments as opinion.
Been there, done that.

I have no need for residential WiFi... my router + one AP provide all that's needed.
More than you want to know, below.

Capacity is limited by the available (idle) air time on/near the channel the access device is using (of course). Single-radio mesh nodes are terrible at this, as the backhaul and access is done on the same radio. Two-band mesh nodes, often 5GHz for backhaul, are much better. But dual radio mesh nodes are an overkill for residential users, esp. when prudence has big bandwidth consuming desktops and immobile devices using wired, and low demand handhelds, on WiFi. Or a casual use laptop. Even streaming Netflix is low demand.

I spent a long year working as the principle engineer for two big cities, as a consultant to Earthlink. That was a mashup of Tropos outdoor meshing (good), and Motorola's Canopy (er, ah, not so good) for backhaul. As we know, these metro WiFi projects all died for lack of a viable business model. Technology wise, this was very interesting and challenging, esp. for cities with serious terrain/mesas. It was all about building penetration and how to get whole house coverage at reasonable speed - at a CPE price that was not sky-high. Self-install was essential to the business model and it just couldn't be done.
I also worked for years on military mesh networking - where every node moved, most as pedestrians. That got so much money, and cost was tolerable and stratospheric levels, that it sort of worked. But the need came from mobile nodes, no fixed infrastructure -- not the case with consumer WiFi.

You say overkill, but you may not be thinking of the McMansions in most of suburbia in the fly over states with 2 adults, 3 kids and about 20 connected devices minimum. Or older largish homes with signal killing building materials(my house). Don't forget kids and gaming. VERY latency sensitive and the appetite to pay for wired ethernet to be run through existing walls is not there(nor are the people advertising to do it frankly). Factor in spotty LTE or expensive data bills and demand for wireless for video chat and streaming is huge. Frankly I think there's a huge pent up demand for these mesh devices if they solve the load and coverage problem better than what is available otherwise for non-technical DIYers(which is like 99.9% of the population honestly). Probably even more demand for something as user friendly as they make it.

This is definitely a very novel product for consumers even if it's not for everyone.

 

[Parkerthon]

Well... the wandering around talking thing - this is a priority eh?

FWIW - Airports do support 11r/11k, and in a roaming config, they just flat out work as access points - provided of course that you daisy chain them... let one be the parent, and the children, like processes, attach to them...

My setup at present...

Broadband Cloud - pfSense (as ingress router/firewall) - Airport1 (WAN as bridged and as local AP), Airport2 (as remote AP) attached to LAN1 of Airport1 -

everything wired/managed via Airport utility.. DHCP/DNS/Routing all handled by pfSense...

Airport1 LAN2 is out to an 8 port switch for the rest of the LAN - including Homeplugs to the entertainment center...

Airport Expreme AC's are probably past their prime as routers, but they still make for darn fine AP's... and they work well together... my only complaint is that the AC versions don't have a good SNMP solution..

Interesting, can I run 3 remote AP's off the main or is my limit one?

 

[sfx2000]

Interesting, can I run 3 remote AP's off the main or is my limit one?

Airports - how many ports do you have?

When I was working standards - the network guys were running OSX server on a MacMini supporting about 20 or so Airport Extremes in different locations - meeting rooms, ballroom, a couple of common areas...

 

[Parkerthon]

Airports - how many ports do you have?

When I was working standards - the network guys were running OSX server on a MacMini supporting about 20 or so Airport Extremes in different locations - meeting rooms, ballroom, a couple of common areas...

Nice, okay, I might have to give it a whirl. Considering my house has slowly been consumed by apple devices, it probably makes sense. Do they support separate SSID's by AP by chance? It's nice to lock down high bandwidth non-roaming clients like Apple TV's in my experience.

 

[sfx2000]

Do they support separate SSID's by AP by chance? It's nice to lock down high bandwidth non-roaming clients like Apple TV's in my experience.

Yep, but also consider that Apple clients are fairly common SSID friendly...

Caveat - don't use Guest Network SSID functionality when Airports are acting as AP's only...

Better there just to put up whatever AP is handy on it's own SSID, and VLAN it out...

 

[Parkerthon]

Yeah no need for Guest, yet. Mainly concerned about covering the whole spectrum without interference. The AP's aren't that far apart. I want strong signal wherever we are primarily because of the Foscams we use as baby monitor and security cams aren't very tolerant of latency. Based on a 40mhz channel bandwidth, I figure I can do 4 AP's comfortably in relatively close proximity(-50-100 feet direct path through walls).

 

[sfx2000]

I want strong signal wherever we are primarily because of the Foscams we use as baby monitor and security cams aren't very tolerant of latency. Based on a 40mhz channel bandwidth, I figure I can do 4 AP's comfortably in relatively close proximity(-50-100 feet direct path through walls).

Friends don't let friends do 40MHz in 2.4GHz...

They might run better in 20MHz, and put all the Cams on a single channel/SSID - so maybe then the Guest SSID on the Airports in bridge mode might come into use - just note that in this config, guest SSID's are not VLAN'ed out and have access to the overall LAN...

 

[sfx2000]

And besides, Airports don't do wide channels in 2.4GHz in any event - and tossing the cams into the 2.4GHz penalty box is likely ok - just keep all the AP's on the same channel to free up the other two channels for neighbor use...

 

[Parkerthon]

I'll try switching to 20mhz for 2.4ghz, thanks for tip. I didn't realize you could set multiple AP's with the same SSID to the same channel. Is that made possible with the whole airport base controller design or did I just misunderstand this whole time how wireless works? Same apply to 5ghz?

 

[sfx2000]

I'll try switching to 20mhz for 2.4ghz, thanks for tip. I didn't realize you could set multiple AP's with the same SSID to the same channel. Is that made possible with the whole airport base controller design or did I just misunderstand this whole time how wireless works? Same apply to 5ghz?

Yes, and yes, Airports rock...

 

[L&LD]

...Airports rock...

sfx2000, have you been drinking?

 

[sfx2000]

sfx2000, have you been drinking?

Actually, I'm remarkably cogent, and not partaking of the Asus RT-Koolaid that many others here have taken a deep gulp of... I have nothing against that, and try to help them out from time to time...

 

[stevech]

sfx2000, have you been drinking?

He's been hitting the Apple Kool-Aid again.

 

[sfx2000]

He's been hitting the Apple Kool-Aid again.

SteveCH and L&LD - jokes aside, I get it - but I also ask open your minds - whether it's eero, airports, or something else.

There's a lot of good solutions out there - nothing is perfect, but for OP's solution, Airports likely are a good answer... I'm not going to steer someone into something they'll regret later on - gotta trust me on that one.

 

[L&LD]

SteveCH and L&LD - jokes aside, I get it - but I also ask open your minds - whether it's eero, airports, or something else.

There's a lot of good solutions out there - nothing is perfect, but for OP's solution, Airports likely are a good answer... I'm not going to steer someone into something they'll regret later on - gotta trust me on that one.

My mind was open (I had an airport before I had the RT-N66U) an apple put a stop to that quickly.

Performance? Where? Features? None that I wanted or needed. Flexibility? .... sorry, I can't stop laughing right now...

An WRT-54G was better than the airport. So much for apple and their closed minded approach to hardware (with adjustable buttons and knobs).

 

[Parkerthon]

My mind was open (I had an airport before I had the RT-N66U) an apple put a stop to that quickly.

Performance? Where? Features? None that I wanted or needed. Flexibility? .... sorry, I can't stop laughing right now...

An WRT-54G was better than the airport. So much for apple and their closed minded approach to hardware (with adjustable buttons and knobs).

That's always been my concern with Apple products as a whole. However so long as they do what I need them to do and are stable, I don't mind the lack of flexibility to tweak and tinker. I only need wireless AP's to blanket my house with AC 1900 signal. It'd be nice to not have to straddle the entire spectrum to make this happen too. Unless there's a significant drawback here I'm not aware of(like non-apple clients have issues connecting to them?) I don't mind paying for the backhaul controller feature and support for these 802.11 protocols that seem to hold promise for not dropping voice/video calls. The devices we roam with are all apple. I essentially standardized on the platform because of my less technical family all has iphones and single platform communication is just so much easier for all. I still have windows devices for desktop, laptop, and work productivity though. I'm going to order a few from a local retail store and try them out. Guess we'll see.