Hopefully those of you with knowledge can impart some of it upon me

[Vector]

First post/request, and it is probably a convoluted doozy.

I have Comcast in two different locations, but other than for comparison, I will be referring to just one location, a two story condo. I currently have a RCA Broadband Modem Cable DCM425 that WAS attached to a Netgear N300 wireless router upstairs. It worked ok downstairs, but was slow at times. I was convinced that I needed to upgrade my router, so I got what is suppose to be one of the top wireless routers on the market, the Netgear Nighthawk. I did speed tests before and after installing it, and while there is a definite improvement, it is not as significant as I had hoped. So a friend suggested I upgrade my modem because as he put it, "your fastest speed will only be as fast as your slowest component". That makes total sense from a logical standpoint. He therefore suggested I buy a Motorola Surfboard 6141 as it is DOCSIS3(like I knew what that meant) and can handle any needs I might put on it.
I was all set to buy one, but found out it does not also handle the phone service I get from Comcast with my Triple Play package. So now I am wondering if I should;

A) Dump Comcasts phone service(keeping internet and TV) and get another provider so I can get a top of the line modem like the 6141 for the best speeds/signal possible.

B) Buy a different type of modem that has phone capability like the one I have at work (ARRIS TM502G) which seems ok

C) Buy what Comcast told me is the fastest/best modem they offer with phone(ARRIS TG852G)

D) None of the above

My main goal is speed/signal strength & dependability. At any one time I could have demands on the system from any one of 4 smart TV's streaming movies on Netflix and/or laptops, ipads smartphones etc. While I do not play streaming games, other people such as family or friends might.

While I do not want to spend unnecessary money, I am willing to spend money to get the best performance out of my wireless network, hence the coin I paid for the Nighthawk.
So I am hoping the collective wisdom of this forum can help me to decide how to proceed from where I am at.

 

[TonyH]

How about have an AP or repeater set up since you have two routers?

 

[jlake]

Since you mentioned that you have a condo, that means that you probably have close neighbors and 2.4 ghz interference.

Use inSSIDer or something similar.

You may have to stick to 5 ghz.

 

[stevech]

First post/request, and it is probably a convoluted doozy.

I have Comcast in two different locations, but other than for comparison, I will be referring to just one location, a two story condo. I currently have a RCA Broadband Modem Cable DCM425 that WAS attached to a Netgear N300 wireless router upstairs. It worked ok downstairs, but was slow at times. I was convinced that I needed to upgrade my router, so I got what is suppose to be one of the top wireless routers on the market, the Netgear Nighthawk. I did speed tests before and after installing it, and while there is a definite improvement, it is not as significant as I had hoped. So a friend suggested I upgrade my modem because as he put it, "your fastest speed will only be as fast as your slowest component". That makes total sense from a logical standpoint. He therefore suggested I buy a Motorola Surfboard 6141 as it is DOCSIS3(like I knew what that meant) and can handle any needs I might put on it.
I was all set to buy one, but found out it does not also handle the phone service I get from Comcast with my Triple Play package. So now I am wondering if I should;

A) Dump Comcasts phone service(keeping internet and TV) and get another provider so I can get a top of the line modem like the 6141 for the best speeds/signal possible.

B) Buy a different type of modem that has phone capability like the one I have at work (ARRIS TM502G) which seems ok

C) Buy what Comcast told me is the fastest/best modem they offer with phone(ARRIS TG852G)

D) None of the above

My main goal is speed/signal strength & dependability. At any one time I could have demands on the system from any one of 4 smart TV's streaming movies on Netflix and/or laptops, ipads smartphones etc. While I do not play streaming games, other people such as family or friends might.

While I do not want to spend unnecessary money, I am willing to spend money to get the best performance out of my wireless network, hence the coin I paid for the Nighthawk.
So I am hoping the collective wisdom of this forum can help me to decide how to proceed from where I am at.

Comcast constrains your cable modem speed on their end based on the grade of service (speed) you pay for. Best to not own your own modem, IMO; own their modem. Don't take their modem/router combo- insist on modem-only.

I have the Arris phone and modem combo. It's fine. I always use my own WiFi router.

Best performance on your WiFi - is add a 2nd WiFi Access Point to get ideal signal strength (and thus, speed) everywhere. I'm in a two story 1700 sq. ft. Townhouse. One WiFi router and in the area used daily with an iPad, an ASUS RT-N12 WiFi Access Point mode product, connected by wire (Moca) to main WiFi router.

 

[RogerSC]

Also have Comcast (internet, phone, and TV), and own my own Arris TM722G modem that has phone support, DOCSIS 3 and IPv6. Works really well, I can recommend it. I just hate to give Comcast more money for any reason, they really are bad here. Got the modem at Best Buy, they were the only one selling it because of the phone support, said "Comcast" on the box the Arris modem came in. I've thought about dumping Comcast phone and going with someone else, but haven't done that yet, since the Comcast bundle is convenient. If they continue to raise their prices, though, I'll be going elsewhere for phone and most likely TV as well. Comcast is the only game in town, though, for broadband internet.

Depending on your download speed, you may do better with a DOCIS 3 modem. Going over a particular download (and upload) speed is going to require channel bonding in your modem, and DOCSIS 3 does this. It may be that your current modem is DOCSIS 2, and if you had a DOCSIS 3 modem you would get faster internet just on that basis, or that faster internet would be available to you if you have a DOCSIS 3 modem (but you would have to pay more). Like I said not sure what's going on in your area with Comcast. My modem's status page shows 4 downstream channels and 4 upstream channels. These are by no means being fully uitilized, but who knows, some day they might be *smile*. So I'd be inclined to rent or buy a DOCSIS 3 modem, myself.

On the wireless coverage issue, I'd also recommend an AP for your downstairs (or whatever area gets slow wireless). I used to have an AP in my living room connected via MoCA, but both the Asus RT-N66U and Netgear R7000 cover my whole house for both 2.4GHz. and 5GHz. wireless bands. I do have my Roku box in my living room connected to my LAN via MoCA from where my cable modem and router are. The MoCA is useful in that I have another adapter (the third one) in a bedroom where there's another desktop, and that works well also.

Anyways, if you want to stay with the Netgear router that you now have, I'd recommend simply using an AP for your downstairs weak wireless area. It can be connected to your main router via MoCA, or perhaps powerline networking, or for best results, use an ethernet cable to connect the AP to your router.

 

[stevech]

I don't recommend owning your own Modem because it gives the cable company an out.. blame loss of synch, signal level problems on your modem.

 

[Vector]

While I certainly appreciate the effort to help me out, I suspect that despite the knowledge base on this forum, I might have trouble understanding the lingo and acronyms.
For instance I was trying to read different threads possibly related to this subject. When I read terms like Tomato and MoCA I have no clue what that stuff is. So while I want to educate myself to help make the best buying decision, I wonder if I will understand enough of what people are advising to make the right choice

How about have an AP or repeater set up since you have two routers?

The original router that was at the condo (Netgear N300) is no longer there. Even if I brought it back, could it be used as a repeater, and would it effect the speed of the system since it is presumably slower than my Nighthawk?

 

[Vector]

Since you mentioned that you have a condo, that means that you probably have close neighbors and 2.4 ghz interference.

Use inSSIDer or something similar.

You may have to stick to 5 ghz.

What is "inSSIDer" ?

I do have a few other wireless networks show up when I have a new device to get on my network. However I have no clue if they are 2.4 or 5 ghz. Furthermore, I am not sure how to switch to 5 ghz with my system(assuming my system has that capability).

 

[Vector]

I will place my comments within your reply so I do not get confused and it turn drive everyone nuts.

Comcast constrains your cable modem speed on their end based on the grade of service (speed) you pay for.

I think I have the upgraded blast speed, whatever that is. Since I am not sure I will check with them to make sure as it is not on my bill.

Best to not own your own modem, IMO; own their modem.

I just wonder if it makes sense to rent theirs at $8 per month forever
If I were to buy one, it would pay for itself within a year and then it would be gravy until I had to buy another one, right?


Don't take their modem/router combo- insist on modem-only.

Considering I just bought a Nighthawk router, there is no worry about that.


I have the Arris phone and modem combo. It's fine. I always use my own WiFi router.

Do you have the TG852G which Comcast claims is the best modem that they have for internet and phone?

Best performance on your WiFi - is add a 2nd WiFi Access Point to get ideal signal strength (and thus, speed) everywhere. I'm in a two story 1700 sq. ft. Townhouse. One WiFi router and in the area used daily with an iPad, an ASUS RT-N12 WiFi Access Point mode product, connected by wire (Moca) to main WiFi router.

I guess Moca means some type of hardwiring between routers?
My whole condo is tiled, and I am not sure I'd even be able to run a wire downstairs from the Nighthawk to hook up another router. However assuming I did, wouldn't any router and/or extender be slower than my Nighthawk, thus slow the speed down?

 

[stevech]

MoCA (see forum section here on that topic)
is a means to connect two devices that use ethernet RJ45's. Instead of cat5 cable between the two, i.e., it's impractical to run cable, a pair of MoCA devices send the cat5 IP data through existing TV coax in the walls/attic/under house. Example: WiFi access point (AP) in 2nd floor to improve coverage. Connect its ethernet port to MoCA bridge device #1 and TV coax loops through it, assuming TV outlet is in the desired room. Device #2 is near the WiFi router and also TV coax outlet.

Instead of TV coax, you can use a pair of IP on home power wiring devices, sometimes called HomePlug AV. These too are in the discussion section of this forum.

Renting Modem: Fine, if you have a magnanimous cable company and no weak signal to/from modem problems that recur. Time Warner loves to charge $40 for "trouble with customer owned"

 

[overdrive31]

The Arris telephony modem doesn't come with a battery btw. The battery is to keep the internet up for a few hours during a power outage for phone use. Comcast used to provide the battery, now they expect you to purchase it if you need the ability to make calls in a power outage.

I would suggest dumping Comcast phone, unless you like the CID on the TV and SMS on a smart device. Also, having the Netgear behind the Arris router will slow things down doing double NAT. Go with the 6121 if you don't need faster than 160Mbps service in the future. The 6141 is capable of 320Mbps and both support 100Mbps upload.

 

[RogerSC]

I don't recommend owning your own Modem because it gives the cable company an out.. blame loss of synch, signal level problems on your modem.

Yes, they could do that, but every time they've looked at my modem, they've found it to be working well. So no excuses there yet. I suppose if they were even sleazier than they seem to be, they could go that way. However, as I said, it is supported by Comcast, had the Comcast name on the box, and I had Comcast install it, so that would be a stretch even for them.

 

[RogerSC]

The Arris telephony modem doesn't come with a battery btw. The battery is to keep the internet up for a few hours during a power outage for phone use. Comcast used to provide the battery, now they expect you to purchase it if you need the ability to make calls in a power outage.

I would suggest dumping Comcast phone, unless you like the CID on the TV and SMS on a smart device. Also, having the Netgear behind the Arris router will slow things down doing double NAT. Go with the 6121 if you don't need faster than 160Mbps service in the future. The 6141 is capable of 320Mbps and both support 100Mbps upload.

I don't know if Comcast rents the modem with batteries or not, but my Arris modem had a backup battery in it when I bought it, and I also have it on a pretty sturdy UPS, as well. When Comcast rented a modem to me, that one also had a battery backup for the phone, but that one was an old Motorola, so I was due for an update when I got the Arris.

As I said, I'm not fond of Comcast, but our choices here are pretty limited. Don't know what choices the OP has.

 

[overdrive31]

The new modems rented from Comcast do not come with batteries. Yes, their old Docsis 2 telephony modems like the Motorola did come with a battery. Good to know the store bought modems come with a battery. Comcast must be pulling a fast one with the batteries. Nickel and dime...who doesn't these days?

 

[stevech]

My Arris from TWC came with a battery. TWC wants it removed for simple liability reasons, and because the absent battery helps level 1 tech support when they tell you to unplug/replug which is their cure-all (!).

My Arris, NAS, prime PC, router, switches are all plugged into a small UPS anyway. Helps even with odd outages: UPS is in garage plugged into a wall outlet that has a GFI on it. That outlet's wiring runs on to a patio outlet (builder didn't use separate GFI outlets; just daisy-chained). Last week, unusual rain got into the patio outlet. Tripped the garage GFI, disconnecting power to UPS. Took me 15 minutes to figure out the patio outlet was wet, they hair-dryer to dry it.

 

[RogerSC]

Yes, I'm a big fan of UPS for my cable modem and router, the less hits that these things get off the AC line, the longer they'll live. Also plug my computers into it *smile*, of course. The rest of the junk is plugged into either surge protected UPS outlets or surge protected power strips. All of my desktop-style computers are configured to do normal shutdown when the power button is pressed, so if I'm around when the power fails, I can simply press the power buttons and have a pretty good chance of normal shutdown. We don't get long power outages very often, but do get occasional glitch, so that's more my concern.

 

[stevech]

Surge protectors have their not well know limitations.
If you can "see" the glitch in power, in the lights, the surge suppressor will have done nothing to mitigate it as they have no energy storage. Most glitches are a decline in power/voltage for a large fraction of a second, causing the lights to flicker.

Surge suppressors can sometimes squelch a very brief (invisible in lights) high voltage hit on the mains. Brief meaning 1/100th second or so. Mostly, Surge Suppressors are a marketing thing.

 

[Vector]

I've been traveling for a few days, hence me being tardy on following up on replies;

Also have Comcast (internet, phone, and TV), and own my own Arris TM722G modem that has phone support, DOCSIS 3 and IPv6. Works really well, I can recommend it.

Well if I keep Comcast for phone with the triple play package, I was thinking of buying the Arris TG852G which is supposedly the best they themselves offer. That is not to say it is the best on the market, but I am not sure. According to one tech, they claim the Arris TG852G is just as good as the Surfboard 6141 in features from a modem standpoint. I don't know if that is true, but I imagine some on this forum will have an opinion?

I just hate to give Comcast more money for any reason, they really are bad here.

I have found out that they will keep raising the price unless you complain. My Dad had one little basic box with them(non HD) for TV service only. When I looked at his last bill he was paying almost $80 dollars per month without any premium channels. Heck my triple play plan is $99 before taxes and add ons, so how could they charge my Dad so much for basic service. It is because they take advantage of people who do not complain or leave. When I went to cancel my Dada account with them, they offered all sorts of price breaks, but I told them to get bent.



Got the modem at Best Buy, they were the only one selling it because of the phone support, said "Comcast" on the box the Arris modem came in. I've thought about dumping Comcast phone and going with someone else, but haven't done that yet, since the Comcast bundle is convenient.

I only like them because of their fast internet speed which cannot be beat by DSL or any other provider that I have access to. That said, their TV and especially their phone service leaves a lot to be desired. I am kind of stuck with them TV wise since the condo will not allow and Sat Dishes and ATT does not have U-Verse in the area. Still if I keep internet and cable TV with Comcast, I can still get a different phone service and presumably still keep my old number, correct?


Depending on your download speed, you may do better with a DOCIS 3 modem. Going over a particular download (and upload) speed is going to require channel bonding in your modem, and DOCSIS 3 does this. It may be that your current modem is DOCSIS 2, and if you had a DOCSIS 3 modem you would get faster internet just on that basis, or that faster internet would be available to you if you have a DOCSIS 3 modem (but you would have to pay more). Like I said not sure what's going on in your area with Comcast. My modem's status page shows 4 downstream channels and 4 upstream channels. These are by no means being fully uitilized, but who knows, some day they might be *smile*. So I'd be inclined to rent or buy a DOCSIS 3 modem, myself.

Supposedly the Arris TG852G has 8 down and 4 up which is supposedly like the Motorola Surfboard 6141. I don't understand what all that means necessarily, but with my Nighthawk router, it supposedly would give me max usage of whatever speeds I might be able to get.

On the wireless coverage issue, I'd also recommend an AP for your downstairs (or whatever area gets slow wireless). I used to have an AP in my living room connected via MoCA, but both the Asus RT-N66U and Netgear R7000 cover my whole house for both 2.4GHz. and 5GHz. wireless bands. I do have my Roku box in my living room connected to my LAN via MoCA from where my cable modem and router are. The MoCA is useful in that I have another adapter (the third one) in a bedroom where there's another desktop, and that works well also.

I am not sure what ROKU is but I have seen people discussing it before. I take it that MoCA is a way of connecting my current router with another router in a wired fashion to make it quicker. I also think LAN stands for a computer or device that is connected via an Ethernet cable from the router, correct?


Anyways, if you want to stay with the Netgear router that you now have, I'd recommend simply using an AP for your downstairs weak wireless area. It can be connected to your main router via MoCA, or perhaps powerline networking, or for best results, use an ethernet cable to connect the AP to your router.

That is obviously the fastest way to do it, and I might connect my smart Bluray directly to the router upstairs in the living room for even faster Netflix downloaded movies. I might even be able to run a long Ethernet cable through a wall downstairs to another router if that will work to make things faster. I am just wondering if the MoCA connection would be faster and/or more practical? Maybe because a real long Ethernet cable might be very expensive? I don't know, just guessing with my limited knowledge.

Also, if I use a range extender like the Linksys N300 will that do the trick instead?

 

[RogerSC]

I've been traveling for a few days, hence me being tardy on following up on replies;

Okay, some replies...The Arris TG852G sounds good. 8 down and 4 up means 8 bonded channels for download, 4 for upload. Since each channel is good for around 40Mbps (from what I've read), muliplying that by 8 gives you more capacity than you're likely to need for some time. Nothing wrong with that, as long as you're not paying through the nose for capacity you'll probably not use for the lifetime of the modem *smile*.

Yes, I do have to threaten Comcast with whatever I can come up with every 6-12 months. I hate that, it's like buying a new car every 6-12 months. I'd love to see them regulated, but I'm not holding my breath on that one.

A Roku is a device that streams media from the internet to your TV. I have it connected via MoCA to my internet entry point, and it offers Netflix, Amazon Instant Video, and many other channels, either free or with a monthly fee (like Hulu+, fee per month).

MoCA (Multimedia over Coax) allows you to use the existing cable TV coaxial cables in your walls for a carrier, rather than having to put new ethernet cables in your walls. For me, rewiring my house with ethernet cables would be very expensive and disruptive, since our house is on a slab foundation, and has only a partial attic. So, for MoCA (a layer 2 link), you have an adapter where your cable modem is, and at each cable outlet where you intend to use it. There's an article on this site about MoCA and MoCA speeds. While I can stream at about 85Mbps here, some more when I'm using multiple adapters concurrently, this is no where near as fast as using ethernet cables (full-speed *smile*). While MoCA tends to be more reliable than wireless or powerline networking, and it is fast enough for my streaming needs at the moment, there will come a time when it won't be. I have MoCA v1.1 adapters here, there may be MoCA v2.0 adapters available soon, we'll see. Those should run more in the 400Mbps speed range, which is much better.

Anyways, I'd rather have ethernet cables in my walls, but MoCA is about the next best thing. If you could put in one ethernet cable to an AP on other floor from where your main router is, that would be much better than using MoCA. Although, like I said, for me putting ethernet cables in the walls is pretty much out of the question here.

LAN stands for Local Area Network and is usually used to refer to the network of all of one's networked clients, while WLAN refers specifically to the wireless devices.

 

[Vector]

I still need to respond to a couple of replies, but reading this thread and a few others I have a few more observations/questions.

1) How can I tell if the other wireless networks that show up as being in the area are on my frequency?

2) Since my router has both 2.4 and 5, presumably it can be switched between either one? Also is it designed to auto switch if it senses that one is less busy than the other?

3) It is dawning on my that even if I have a system that is flying with a better modem and my AC router, if the devices connected to it like a laptop only have older network adapter, it cannot go any faster than it's own adapter will allow, correct?

4) I do have a smart TV, and several WiFi Bluray players in various rooms. All the equipment is new, so presumably they should be able to stream movies from Netflix with a good modern connection(i.e. adapter)?

5) Since my router is suppose to have the ability to increase speed of one devices demand over another, how does that play into a modem that is 8x4 capable vs one that is 4x4 or less?

6) Supposedly my router has both Advanced QoS(whatever that is), and a WAN port on the back along with 4 LAN ports. I assume the LAN ports are for Ethernet connections, but what is the WAN for, and does it relate to the modem in any way?

I suspect some of these comments/questions are either redundant or obvious to many here, but forgive me as I try to get a handle on all this stuff.