Need advice for a concrete apartment

[kirik]

Hello all,

Apologies for the longwinded first post, but the problem I'm facing has stumped me. I am in need of some purchasing advice since I have little experience (I have a single wireless router at home) with networking. My brother is currently working overseas and is living in a concrete apartment. He is having trouble with getting his network up and running.

Currently he has 2 problems:

1) He would like the entire connection to be using his HMA VPN. He would like to run DDWRT to help with this part. His connection is 10 down and 1 up.

2) Because all the walls are concrete, and the apartment is rented, he is unwilling to make any changes that may cause damage to the walls. Also, his family has 3 cats and there is concern that they would become fascinated by dangling wires.

What he would like to do is for me to purchase hardware from Canada (since he'll be returning in a few years and want to be able to use the hardware then) and he'll pick up the items when he visits. He wants to spend as little as possible, but is willing to pay for hardware.

Apartment Layout:

His apartment is laid out as shown in the image. The modem and current router that he is using should be located near the "D" in Dining. The values are wireless signal strength (in dBm) as recorded on his phone using wifi analyzer.

He wants to use a repeater in the room with -89dBm signal so that devices in the room with -92 can get wifi access as well.

Solutions I am considering:

As far as the first problem is concerned I'm not sure how much hardware is needed when his connection is only 10 down and 1 up. I was thinking that the VPN aspect could be dealt with using a Rosewill RNX-N300RT from newegg since that has DDWRT support and is fairly cheap.

For the second problem, I was thinking of 2x RNX-N360RT. Both would be upgarded with high gain antennas from Monoprice. The first N360RT would be placed near the N300RT. The second would be placed in the -89dBm room. If the computer in the -92dBm room still can't get a reliable signal, I was thinking of telling him to get a high power wireless adapter from Monoprice.

So basically I'd like some advice for my solution (whether it'll work or won't work, better devices for this situation, etc) before I go spend money buying hardware. I live in Canada and generally buy from www.ncix.com, www.canadacomputers.com, or www.newegg.ca as I can directly pick up from their B&M shops / warehouse.

Thank you very much!

 

[RogerSC]

One approach would be use powerline networking to connect wireless Access Point(s) where he needs them. Repeaters do slow things down (generally), whereas with Access Points (either a re-purposed router or a piece of gear designed to be a wireless Access Point) the wireless speed at the access point is whatever speed that you're getting through the powerline networking.

This wouldn't require adding any wires, although you have to be careful not to overestimate the speed you'll get out of powerline networking. If you buy 500Mbps or 200Mbps powerline adapters, you're not going to get 500Mbps or 200Mbps. You can read reviews of this technology here on this site.

Another choice for connecting an Access Point that's a little less used is MoCA, where you use the coaxial cable in the walls for cable TV as a carrier for ethernet. This can be faster and likely to be more reliable than powerline networking. I use MoCA here, and find it serves me well, but it may be difficult to locate components at this point in time, I'm not sure. And, while you can get it to work with satellite TV, it won't be easy. In the case of satellite TV, I'd try powerline networking first and see how that went.

 

[chadster766]

If phone lines are run through the condo check to see if they are cat5 or cat3. Then you could use those lines. Cat5 is 4 pair and only one pair is required for phone and 2 of the left over pairs can give you 100mb/s Ethernet. If this is an option you may want to get a phone tech to hook it up.

Another option would be to run a surface attached Cat5e from the dinning room to outside the dinning room window and back inside the widow in the bed room. It may not be possible.

 

[kirik]

Thank you for the advice. So I just spoke with my brother and he's going to look into the powerline stuff at the local shops after work. He says that computer gear tends to have limited selection and is very pricey so it may not work out well. He'll get back to me soon on the wireless coverage problem.

 

[kirik]

Looks like buying locally is out of the question since the cost is about 2.5x what he would pay here.

However the good news is that the powerline devices will work using travel adapters as long as they only change the shape of the prongs (no voltage conversion or anything). I contacted 2 companies and they both gave me the same answer.

So now I'm left with one more question. How expensive a router would I need for a connection that's only 10 down and 1 up?

 

[sfx2000]

The TP-Link devices here look interesting...

with a 10down/1up connection - any N300 single band router should work fine...

 

[kirik]

Apologies, I didn't make it clear...

All devices are to go through a VPN so that services can be accessed as if the service was in Canada. I am unsure which router would be able to handle VPN full time for a service of the stated speed.

 

[fistv]

I had good performance and reliability with DDWRT VPN to cisco ASA several miles away, DDWRT>cablemodem>dualT1's>ASA. For the two months I used it while we moved the company from our old building to newly built building it worked with pretty much with no down time.
Just some thights as far as wiring a network, 3m makes some nice removable hooks that he could run cable up high or run cable under carpet in areas it won't get stepped on, corners, tight against molding. I'm thinking one router and two WAPS with the waps away from the cats. The MoCA stuff since I first read about in on this site a couple of weeks ago intrigues me, I think it's a bit pricey though.
The power line networking though I wonder about, theoretically could a neighbor also plug in a powerline module or are all the apartments on separate meters/electrical or if a neighbor already had one would that effect it at all ? I've never lived in an shared building other than in the military so I don't know.

 

[CaptainSTX]

In a multi family building served by a single transformer anyone within 200 - 300 feet (electrical circuit length ) could connect to your powerline setup, however with a password it is no more insecure than using WiFi.

Powerline is subject to interference, but I'm not sure if a neighbor's network would make any difference. Powerline networks will work with 10+ adapters on a network with fewer than that number of adapters on an electrical circuit(s) within 300 feet it probably wouldn't make a noticeable difference for most individuals where their link rate is in excess of their ISP's download speed.

Powerline adapters are rare so the chance of one of your nearby neighbors using the technology. I have lived in three MDUs in the past five years and have never run across another network when I check the status of my powerline adapters. I do see over thirty 2.4 Ghz WiFi SSIDs making Wifi problematic for reliable high speed streaming/ data transfers.

 

[fistv]

In a multi family building served by a single transformer anyone within 200 - 300 feet (electrical circuit length ) could connect to your powerline setup, however with a password it is no more insecure than using WiFi.

Powerline is subject to interference, but I'm not sure if a neighbor's network would make any difference. Powerline networks will work with 10+ adapters on a network with fewer than that number of adapters on an electrical circuit(s) within 300 feet it probably wouldn't make a noticeable difference for most individuals where their link rate is in excess of their ISP's download speed.

Powerline adapters are rare so the chance of one of your nearby neighbors using the technology. I have lived in three MDUs in the past five years and have never run across another network when I check the status of my powerline adapters. I do see over thirty 2.4 Ghz WiFi SSIDs making Wifi problematic for reliable high speed streaming/ data transfers.

About 10 years ago Pennsylvania Power and Light did a pilot program to put internet over power lines to the house. They only had to add some special jumper at the tranformers to pass signal though. It was done in the Allentown Whitehall area and a guy I worked with had it for about 6 months, I think they did like 500 homes, it was a 10 meg pipe which was a big pipe in 2004, slated to go to 50meg. Then the two competing cable companies jumped in with both feet with cable modems and PPL never followed though. I think for the first time in their history they suddenly had competition and had no clue how to handle it and compete so they folded on the consumer level. I have heard rumors that they did continue but for power company use only. Personally I thought it would have been a killer rural solution. We still have areas where I am that don't have cable modems to some farms and isolated homes unless the owner is willing to pay the installation fee.

 

[azazel1024]

The only problem is that it gets really complex real fast and powerline relies so heavily on conditions on the circuit. Not sure what they were using on a scale that size, but the signal has a limited transmit range, transformer or no-transformer. I'd assume you are talking a couple of thousand feet at most without a repeater. When it comes down to it, you are probably best served with just doing fiber on the pole if you need to get stuff out to a rural area. Maybe the last mile might be powerline to the home or something, but it also might still only be a very small number of mbps in the end.

Anyway, that would likely be cheaper than having to string, power and hook-up signal repeaters and any tranformer modifications you might have to do however often you need to, combined with the nature of powerline (noisy medium and shared medium. Fiber would be shared too, but the pipe is vastly larger and not hard to run a multi fiber bundle on the pole).

DSL would probably work better in most circumstances in comparison to powerline. The lines are less noisy and they both probably have vaguely similar characteristics in terms of range performance (if not necessarily speed and environmental conditions). Of course that is one of those things that also stumps me a little, is why not fiber on the pole and then DSL the last mile (or hundred feet or whatever) in rural situations? I realize it still isn't free or cheap, but if the poles are already there for power, it shouldn't take THAT much to string along the poles. A huge part of the cost would be stringing from the pole to the house in rural situations, where as if you can just string along the trunk line and then hook-up powerline to the house from an ONT on the trunk closests to the residence or hook-up to the phone lines for DSL to the house...

I'll just say I am glad I don't live anywhere really rural.

 

[htismaqe]

I'll just say I am glad I don't live anywhere really rural.

It's not all bad.

I live about a mile from a town of 600 people and I have fiber to my house.

Rural coops FTW.

 

[azazel1024]

*envy*

I am probably right about at the edge of what you can still consider suburban from Baltimore. I have fiber as well, but I am basically the last "neighborhood*" that Verizon rolled FIOS out to before they said FU to everyone else.

A house I was looking at that is only about 2 miles further out from the city had NOTHING. Not even cable. There was cable to the curb, but no one had ever run it to the residence. I did not want to find out how much Comcast (oh dear God, Comcast) would charge to run it from the box at the curb to the house...which was about 600 feet away. I don't think that was going to be a curtesy hook-up or basic service charge. It was only a 1.5 acre property, but it was down a very, very long shared drive way with several other properties.

*I say neigborhood, because I am one of about 8 1-1.2 acre properties on my road right near the entrance, the rest are 3-15 acre properties (mostly horse farms and actual farms).

 

[kirik]

So, just a quick update. I picked up a Trendnet starter kit for $35 before tax. A quick test has me convinced that this is a great way to go. I can link my computer to the router at 100mbps which is plenty good.

The last thing I need is advice on a router that can use DDWRT and connect to a VPN service. As I said before the objective is mostly to use services as if the connection originated from Canada. The internet service is 10 down and 1 up so I was thinking of a cheaper router. Do you guys think that this router can handle sending all traffic through a VPN or should I consider a higher end unit with better specs?

Thank you so much for all the advice so far! It's been very helpful.

 

[azazel1024]

Or even cheaper, the TP-Link 841n. It can run DD-WRT, it should be able to handle a 10/1 connection over VPN just fine. It has very good wireless coverage.

Give it a shot.

 

[kirik]

I'll have a look, thanks!

 

[CaptainSTX]

Or even cheaper, the TP-Link 841n. It can run DD-WRT, it should be able to handle a 10/1 connection over VPN just fine. It has very good wireless coverage.

Give it a shot.

VPNs are processor intensive. Even with a faster processor and lots of RAM you will be doing well to get 60% of your download speed particularly when you need to connect to a server thousands of miles distant.

When I connect to a speedtest server in Miami I can get 78 Mbps down. When I switch to Bangkok it drops to 18 Mbps. Run your own experiment.

If you can't get a steady connection with at least 5 Mbps down streaming even in SD is not going to work very well.

Buy the highest powered single band router you can afford.