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Newbie needing help: multiple wifi APs connected to Ethernet

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zeebanker

New Around Here
Hi,
This a great site and I've read several articles, but am still unclear on how to proceed with what I'm trying to achieve, so any help would be greatly appreciated:

Situation:
Three level home with 4 Google mesh routers. Signal still spotty in some parts of the house.

Potential solution:
Plug in all 4 routers into ethernet ports in each room (we are getting our house remodeled and the electrician can pull wires into rooms where needed) BUT have them all be on one SSID and have devices jump from one AP to another depending on where the signal is the strongest. One thought I have is to place a switch after the modem (which is Arris SB6283) and have the four ports of the switch connect to four wall jacks in four different rooms. Then connect each of the Google pucks (NSL1304) to the wall jack in each room.

Questions:
1. Is this the best way to ensure a "single" wifi signal throughout the house?
2. If so, how would I go about configuring this?
3. What switch would you recommend?
4. I have a wifi printer that I'd like to be able to access from different parts of the house, that is the primary reason that I'd like a single SSID
5. Once configured, I'd like to add a NAS to backup data on a couple of iPhones and a macbook and a PC.

Thank you!
 
Hi,
This a great site and I've read several articles, but am still unclear on how to proceed with what I'm trying to achieve, so any help would be greatly appreciated:

Situation:
Three level home with 4 Google mesh routers. Signal still spotty in some parts of the house.

Potential solution:
Plug in all 4 routers into ethernet ports in each room (we are getting our house remodeled and the electrician can pull wires into rooms where needed) BUT have them all be on one SSID and have devices jump from one AP to another depending on where the signal is the strongest. One thought I have is to place a switch after the modem (which is Arris SB6283) and have the four ports of the switch connect to four wall jacks in four different rooms. Then connect each of the Google pucks (NSL1304) to the wall jack in each room.

Questions:
1. Is this the best way to ensure a "single" wifi signal throughout the house?
Ethernet backbone is the most reliable. MESH is a marketing effort. Sometimes it is ok, many have issues. Go ethernet for throughput, reliability, and long term upgrades. Pull CAT6 or CAT 6E. Make sure the person doing has credentials for data infrastructure wiring and handling the cables. Make sure the contract includes testing and validation reports for each run including the terminations at full rated bandwidth.

What is your budget ?

APs are just transmit/receive radios that you place around a building. You may need multiple ethernet point terminations in a room depending on where the AP needs to be positioned on the wall or ceiling. Otherwise, expect to run a cable around the room in some places. The AP needs to have adjustable power settings and band control.

If only on 5GHz band, depending on wall construction, you may want 1 AP per room or several rooms. If on 2.4 GHz band, an entire floor may be covered, depending on wall construction. Central ceiling mount can be the best location for the AP in that case. If you need both bands, then central placement with fill in low power APs or 5GHz band only at the weak coverage areas. If you want roaming, single SSID across both bands should be used.

Client devices determine when to switch APs or radios. The AP can only encourage the switch by power level and RSSI disassociate level. APs cannot force a client to move.
2. If so, how would I go about configuring this?
as many ethernet ports in different walls and central ceiling locations as you budget will allow. Get the cabling in the walls and ceiling as this is not cheap to change after they are covered up. You can use cheap APs if you need to save money now and replace them as budget allows.
3. What switch would you recommend?
i assume your ISP Modem is a Modem/router combo and it is providing IP addresses. Any unmanaged 1 Gbit/s rates switch with enough ports for all of the ethernet cables coming in to the central location. Closets or basements are ideal as long as climate controlled for moisture and temperature. Netgear prosafe metal case switches have done well for me for decades in some cases.
4. I have a wifi printer that I'd like to be able to access from different parts of the house, that is the primary reason that I'd like a single SSID
It is not the SSID that matters. Keeping it simple, all of the devices that access the printer and the printer will need to be on the same IP subnet from the router. So if all are using DHCP and the router is providing DHCP server and thus IP addresses, then you are done.

Single SSID is useful for supporting roaming between AP radios.

5. Once configured, I'd like to add a NAS to backup data on a couple of iPhones and a macbook and a PC.

With above, not an issue. Again, consider centralizing the cable terminations in a closet or basement that is climate controlled and ventilated ( if closet) . Then locate the NAS and ISP router there as well.

What is your ISP connection and what cabling does the ISP use - coax cable, DSL phone, or fiber to the house ?

Thank you!
 
If you are thinking of direct wifi connection to the printer from individual client devices, you would want a separate SSID for the printer's wireless radio.. Otherwise client devices may connect to the printer instead of an AP -> no internet ;-)

If the printer can join the main network with an ethernet cable, use that, and set up access through the main wired/wireless network using DHCP. If not equipped with ethernet and the printer can join by wireless to your main network SSID, then it is like any other client joining the main network using DHCP. i would make sure the printer is in line of sight and close to an AP to ensure good wireless bandwidth for it. Ethernet would be better though.
 
Yes an ethernet wire for a printer is the way to go.

I use ethernet for my HP color laser and air print works well. My wife had a couple of issues, but her rebooting her Apple device fixed the issue. I run the latest HP firmware on the printer.
 
Thank you degrub and coxhaus. I will attempt to answer some questions - please forgive my ignorance if my responses are not what you are looking for.

Some answers:
1. Budget - under $1k for equipment. The wires and installation are in the remodel budget, so they're covered by the heloc :)
2. The Arris modem does not have enough ethernet ports to directly wire to the rooms from the central hub. I'll need a switch for that.
3. The ISP is Xfinity via coax into the basement utility room. The room will be insulated.
4. We don't "need" to use both 5GHz and 2.4GHz, (I think most newer phones/smart TVs prefer 5GHz, but I could be wrong).
5. While we could connect a couple of office computers and the printer via ethernet, we do need wifi access (too many mobile devices, kids who don't know what a wire is, wife who loves to walk around with her ipad and so on...)

More questions:
1. What switch would you recommend? How many ports? I would prefer a simple, unmanaged, reliable piece of hardware.
2. Would you recommend a patch panel? As of now, I'm only envisioning 4 or 5 ethernet jacks in other rooms, but under what scenarios would I need more and thus could benefit from a patch panel.
3. Would you use the Google nest pucks for APs? They are relatively new (and I spent 400 bucks on them), and if no strong objections, would prefer to reuse them
4. If not the Google nest pucks, what model/brand wireless APs would you recommend?
5. And because of the multi-level nature of our house, lets say Client1 connects to AP1 on the 2nd floor and the device moves to the basement, where there's AP2 (on the same SSID), how can the system be setup so that Client1 does not lose connection because of AP1's signal is weak in the basement but automatically connects to AP2 or another AP with a stronger signal than AP1? That's the primary reasons (strong signal coverage + seamless connection) for this entire exercise in the first place. Currently, the mesh system seems to do this fine, just that there's spots in the house with weak signal.
 
wire every device that will take it. Save your wireless for the mobile devices. Wire every room with CAT 6 or 6E. May help resale value. Larger community rooms at least 2 on opposite walls, possibly 1 central in ceiling for an AP. Blank plates can be placed if you don't want to terminate. Have your installer provide a structured wiring panel solution with a patch panel for all of the communications wiring - coax, phone, ethernet CAT6/6E and a couple electrical outlets on a 15/20 amp circuit. Tell them you intend to install an ethernet switch there or nearby. You will want something like a wiring closet with open shelves - maybe just some wall track /bracket shelving with open wire shelves to facilitate cooling mounted on the adjacent studs. Reserve a spot for a modest UPS to both protect your network gear and give you some run time when the power goes off.

Wherever the COAX, phone, and potential fiber demarc location(s) is for the house, run two of each type cable to near the entry location and terminate them. If there is another location where you want to locate your networking gear - ISP modem/router, ,main switch, NAS/server, run two of each from the entry point to that other location. Reasons are failure of one cable ( it happens, many times from trim carpenter nail guns or other crafts after walls are closed up) and there are some cases where you will need the extra cable - Coax DOCCIS 3.1 interference with MOCA for example and the need to have isolation between the two or needing to aggregate two ethernet cables together for higher bandwidth - LAG).

Any future gamer locations/rooms should be hardwired for sure. Home theater should be wired if at all possible. Much more reliable and not vulnerable to interference.

Any plans for security cameras, etc ? Wire them if possible. If not that will affect placement of 2.4 GHz wireless APs. Sometimes exterior wall materials make it difficult to get wireless out to the camera.

a plan view layout of the house floor by floor would be useful, even a hand sketch showing all the rooms/walls with rough distances and if the wall is not sheetrock over wood studs. You can show us where the coverage is weak on the sketch as well. Modern non-consumer APs look like smoke detectors usually with internal antennas. Show us where you think you might want the ethernet terminations.

If you are happy with the Nest pucks, can you control the power level on the radios and which bands are in use ?
You can try one or more in the weak areas. Don;t know if there is a practical limit to the number of pucks or how close they can be without interfering with each other. In wireless, less APs at full power or more APs at low power, higher band, is better. Central location for the former, scattered for the latter. i use 4 AC APs in my house - two down and 2 up mounted on walls or ceiling depending on the area to cover. For example, a wall mounted AP can cover upstairs and downstairs for one or to rooms on each floor while a ceiling mount may cover large rooms and adjacent line of sight spaces ( family room + kitchen for example) .

If dryer washer, furnace are located in the basement utility room, be aware that when the motor starts or the igniter fires ( if gas) , it will broadcast a burst of white noise on all radio frequencies. Any unshielded, or incorrectly grounded shielded communication wires will pick up the noise as signal on the wire. Can cause issues. Must use twisted pair ethernet cables as a minimum, but may be better to locate switch and other gear elsewhere. Mine is about 15 ft away from washer dryer with a sheetrocked wall in between and i have not seen any issues on the wires or devices. Coax should not be affected, correctly installed.

Netgear ProSafe unmanaged has been very good to me over the decades. i get the metal box ones. My rule of thumb for number of ports is number of terminated wires + number of local devices x 2. You can always add an additional smaller switch for local use. You get a little bit of lag with cascaded switches, but it may not be noticeable. It also concentrates the total bandwidth from one switch into one cable going to the upstream switch. For most home use that won't matter. So 12 wires + 4 local devices = 20 or 24 port unmanaged gigabit switch. My router has 14 LAN ports + 2 WAN ports. i run a Netgear Prosafe 16 port managed switch in my office due to the number of devices i have wired there. Most of the traffic is local to the office except a couple PCs for work that acces the internet and a printer on the LAN. The NASs for those PCs are located on the switch for best bandwidth. i do use VLANs to segregate traffic in the house, so my APs and router support that. The switch is passive for the vlans as i use it in unmanaged mode.

TP link OMADA is recommended by several folks here. i use older cisco gear (WAP371) on wireless AC 5GHz only on a two story 3200 total sqr ft house with no issues so far. Cisco RV325 router behind the ISP router. The advantage of either of these is that once you set the configuration for one, you can propogate it to all of the APs as the OMADA has a separate controller and the CISCO has it built into the AP. You don't have to use it, but it is convenient for some cases where everything is identical across the APs.

See my original post. The client decides when to switch. Apple devices can be clingy. The AP has limited say in the matter and may only drop the client as a last resort, based on its setting and the signal strength from the client.

There IEEE std protocols available on some APs to help, but it is up to the client. The most likely to succeed strategy is to have all of the APs the same model best i can tell. It really comes down to in house testing and adjustment of APs.
 
Thank you for the detailed response. I expect to move on this project early next year once the dry wall goes up and the jacks are in place. I'll come back and ask questions as that progresses. I really appreciate your time and thoughtful responses.
 
I bought a couple of Cisco 150ax wireless APs and so far, they seem good running for a day. They are only $105 each which seems cheap to me. They have their controller built-in, come with 3 year warranty, include POE adapter so you don't have to have a POE switch and are Wi-Fi 6.
 

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