Outdoor network

[ascanio1]

To start with I congratulate and thank you for the great forum, reviews and also for the generally cheerfully & helpful attitude of the community.

I apologize for being IT dumb (not just challenged) which, I am sure, will annoy quite a few as the answer is certainly somewhere in here in the forum or reviews, and I simply have been unable to find/understand it.

I need advice on how to setup an access point for a garden.

Are there waterproof routers? Do I need to install them in a casing? What type of casing? Where can I find it?

Any other requirements as antennas, booster, etc?

Could you also point out resellers for these items/accessories?

Can you recommend a **** very reliable **** AC router/AP that has sufficient power to cover a 200mt radius (some trees but no buildings)?

Throughput would be a plus (but reliable is a must) as we would stream Vudu 1080p films at about 120mt from the AP, where the pool is situated.

Please note that the property is in the middle of nowhere and I can tweak the power, the antennas, etc, without incurring into legal/neighbour problems. I would ask a friend (I'm unable) to flash an appropriate firmware, if necessary, to increase power (although I read somewhere that increasing only transmit power is not enough as packets or some other data has to be transmitted back to the AP, even during download).

Whilst I'm at it, I would also appreciate if you would name a couple of AC APs (or routers) for inside the home itself (in 6 rooms each one cabled with shielded cat 6). I seek these 2 qualities in this order:
- reliable
- throughput

I have been quite happy with an Asus RT-AC66U but I'm open to advice.

Again I apologize but the AP review is too complex with too many tweaks for me to understand easily, given my IT ignorance. I thank in advance anyone willing to share his time and expertise.

Tommaso

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[pege63]

I would buy a Ubiquiti Unifi AP AC LR or the PRO versions of this ACCESS POINTs, the range is in your area range.

 

[ascanio1]

I heard of Ubiquity a few years ago and the comments were very positive. I'll check it out.

Thanks. Should I use a casing? Can routers survive under a balcony (no direct sunlight or water)?

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[pege63]

The PRO version is a Indoor/Outdoor solution and LR a indoor but i know ppl who has them on balcony and still working as long they are in a dry spot.

 

[ascanio1]

The PRO version is a Indoor/Outdoor solution and LR a indoor but i know ppl who has them on balcony and still working as long they are in a dry spot.

Thanks! It's not too expensive either! I like it...

But what is the difference between this pro model and the HD model?
http://www.doubleradius.com/Manufac...quiti-unifi-ac-ap-high-density-uap-ac-hd.html ?

Does this particular HD model integrate different channels and networks, seamlessly, yet without channels or networks overlap?

If this is the case it would resolve a different problem that I have... in the home there are 6 rooms which require separate AP as the walls are very thick but... there is a lot of networks overlap that creates confusion.

If this Ubiquity "HD" model solves this problem, then it's worth the extra cost.

Can you please help me to understand?

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[netwrks]

The AC PRO can be used outside, but sheltered from the weather (under an eave, or inside an outdoor porch. For a full weatherproof AP, the UAP-AC-M ( classified as outdoor, which can be configured as an AP) is a good choice. The HD AP is for high density, (100's of user's not for long range). There would be no real benefit for this AP in a home environment

 

[ascanio1]

@ netwrks, thanks. I appreciate the explanation which implies that the HD model does not eliminate the channel/network overlap problem.

After these posts we realised that we could install one of the internal APs very close to a window (inside a curtain head) facing the garden but inside the room.

As glass won't hurt efficiency so much, I think that this thread has exhausted its purpose.

I thank for the the contributions re outdoors but I would really welcome advice regarding best indoor APs or routers for reliability and throughput.

I guess that the Ubiquiti Unifi AP AC LR would certainly be be one. Any better ones come to mind for reliability and shorter distance throughput?

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[pege63]

Well both Unfi UAP AC-PRO and Unifi UAP AC-M are "Weather Resistant Design" and you also have the UAP-AC-Outdoor thats also a good choose for a "Weather Resistant Classified" outdoor solution but it cost 3 times more.

 

[ascanio1]

@ page63

Thanks! But, as I wrote in my previous post, we realised that we can install the routers inside the rooms, inside each window frame (at the top, under the ceiling, there is a recess in the frame) and this will allow us to install 4 routers facing towards the 4 sides of the garden.

Therefore the waterproof/outdoor requirement is no longer necessary.

On the other hand these requirements, in this order, are still important:
1. Reliability
2. Throughout
3. Range

All devices should be AC.

I would appreciate advice. I guess that the Ubiquity would certainly be up on top of the list.

Other devices come to mind?

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[pege63]

Its Access points NOT Routers i would buy as i write first the Ubiquiti Unifi AP AC-PRO , LR versions or the Unifi UAP AC-M version in that order.
Its all in your 1-3 point range.

 

[MichaelCG]

There are several of us in here that are somewhat fans of Ubiquiti products. For what you describe for inside the house, depending on your budget and your speed requirements, look at the various flavors of the UAP-AC devices. The LITE is the lowest price, but also the lowest performer. If putting an AP in each room, doubtful the LR is what you are after. So that leaves the LITE, PRO, or IW depending on where they are going to be mounted and the expected throughput performance required.

 

[pege63]

Why even put APs in each room, no need.

 

[MichaelCG]

Speed mostly. Depending on the construction of the structure as well as the speed and density requirements of the clients, an AP per room "may" be appropriate.

I know in my house, I have an UAP-AC-LR in my 1st floor stairwell which is out of site enough my wife doesn't complain. Through one wall towards my Living Room, my speeds aren't impacted greatly. I am able to get 200-300Mbps depending on the client. However through the wall on the other side towards my Master Bedroom, I am lucky to get 5-10Mbps. That path to the Master happens to go through some of the duct work of the HVAC system which I assume just kills my signal. However, what are my needs in that room? Just enough service to read the news in bed and maybe stream a basic movie here and there. So until that requirement changes, I don't need a dedicated AP for that room....yet.

 

[netwrks]

I added a 3rd AC Pro to my network today. (Went with consistency - I'm using 5ghz for all portable clients - 1 wireless printer on 2.4ghz set to low on one AP only). With the 5ghz channel's Tx further tweaked, I get a much better overall experience. Some wireless clients were suffering abit, due to my reluctance to crank up the TX gain. So, more is better, if the AP's are properly configured.

 

[ascanio1]

Wow, thank you all for your help and apologies for not replying sooner but construction work has been taking up a lot of time (and nerves...).

I decided to buy Ubiquity as more and more friends are confirming that this is a really good brand but, add the moment, I am doing some testing with other routers.

Before buying my APs, I am borrowing some routers from a friend to establish parameters and other factors and I am testing an Asus RT-AC66U (w/ 3 tall, booster, antennas, I think +12dB), Netgear R6300, Asus RT-AC56U and TP-Link TL-WR1042N.

I have selected 4 rooms on the top floor where I will place a router/AP and one on the ground floor (living room). The 4 top rooms will broadcast in the 4 directions. Walls are extremely thick with electric cabling passing through them and some metal poles to pull together and strengthen the old walls (between 1.8mt and 2.3mt thick !!!). Walls are made of a porous stone called "tufo".

All routers have no problems inside each room but all routers deliver barely any signal in neighbouring rooms (-80dB) on/off on the 5.0Ghz band and a bit better the 2.4Ghz (-65dB) with the TP-link delivering a bit more (-60dB).

All routers reach 200m at different strengths: -80dB the 5.0Ghz network and -65dB the 2.4Ghz network. The long, booster antennas router gains about 5 to 10 dB.

A few questions:
A) Which is the highest throughput Ubiquity model? Consider I will need to stream 2 1080p films at 200m and the only obstruction will be a glass window very close to the radio.
B) Should I set the device as routers or as APs and why (please, would soneone explain the pros and cons of AP/Router)?

Again, thank you to all for your time and expertise!

 

[MichaelCG]

200m is quite a distance with probably too many variables to take into account over the Internet to tell you if it will work or not. You will probably need to do some testing to determine if the airspace is clear, good line of sight, and see how well your clients handle that distance. Remember...the AP is only part of the story here. If the client can't transmit back to the AP successfully, the speeds will tank.

Highest throughput Ubiquiti in the UniFi series...that would be the UAP-AC-HD I believe. However even their slowest AC capable UniFi is more than enough to stream two 1080p streams in clean airspace. You will probably be more dependent upon the actual client features and the physical distance than the actual AP that will determine your speeds.

You may have to consider using one of the Outdoor APs with a custom antenna....or even look at the AirMax gear to get help get the speeds at the distances you are talking about.

A.) If you are expecting the APs to be somewhat directional, I would go for a UAP-AC-M or a UAP-AC-M-PRO and look at some directional antennas. If not wanting to go that route, then the UAP-AC-LR would be next vote since you are going to be playing the distance game and the better antennas of those may help.

B.) You should be looking at APs. You do not want/need multiple routers within your network for the use case you have described.

A basic explanation of the differences between an AP and a router aren't always easy. For the most part they operate at different layers at the network. An AP is a Layer2 device that bridges packets between the Wireless and Wired local network. A router is a Layer3 device that routes packets between different subnets. A router itself is slower than a bridge/switch since it must do more processing further into each packet.

OSI Model
Layer1 - Physical Medium the signal is traversing
-- Copper, Fiber, Radio Waves, etc
Layer2 - Formatting or Protocol on the Physical medium
-- Ethernet, WiFi, etc
Layer3 - Higher level communications protocol
-- IP is the primary example

 

[ascanio1]

200m is quite a distance with probably too many variables to take into account over the Internet to tell you if it will work or not. You will probably need to do some testing to determine if the airspace is clear, good line of sight, and see how well your clients handle that distance. Remember...the AP is only part of the story here. If the client can't transmit back to the AP successfully, the speeds will tank.

Highest throughput Ubiquiti in the UniFi series...that would be the UAP-AC-HD I believe. However even their slowest AC capable UniFi is more than enough to stream two 1080p streams in clean airspace. You will probably be more dependent upon the actual client features and the physical distance than the actual AP that will determine your speeds.

You may have to consider using one of the Outdoor APs with a custom antenna....or even look at the AirMax gear to get help get the speeds at the distances you are talking about.

A.) If you are expecting the APs to be somewhat directional, I would go for a UAP-AC-M or a UAP-AC-M-PRO and look at some directional antennas. If not wanting to go that route, then the UAP-AC-LR would be next vote since you are going to be playing the distance game and the better antennas of those may help.

B.) You should be looking at APs. You do not want/need multiple routers within your network for the use case you have described.

A basic explanation of the differences between an AP and a router aren't always easy. For the most part they operate at different layers at the network. An AP is a Layer2 device that bridges packets between the Wireless and Wired local network. A router is a Layer3 device that routes packets between different subnets. A router itself is slower than a bridge/switch since it must do more processing further into each packet.

OSI Model
Layer1 - Physical Medium the signal is traversing
-- Copper, Fiber, Radio Waves, etc
Layer2 - Formatting or Protocol on the Physical medium
-- Ethernet, WiFi, etc
Layer3 - Higher level communications protocol
-- IP is the primary example

This was all very useful both for the AP explanation and for reminding me that also the client has to be up to the task. Thank you.

All testing was done using Inssider programme from a MS surface book so I will have to test again using phones and tablets. But this raises a few questions...

A) Is it therefore pointless to have an AP more powerful than the client... ?
If throughput depends on both transmitter power and client power sending packets back... then what's the point to spend lots money on powerful APs with booster antennas?
In the tests, the Asus RT-AC66U with booster antennas performed well at 200m with about -60dB but, from what I learned here, it is pointless to go that way because my laptops, tablets and phones will bring the throughput down anyway...

B) Do programmes and Apps like INSSIDER and WiFi Analyser also test the client's ability to resend packets back to the transmitting radio (thus testing theoretical/potential throughput capability) or are these programmes testing only the strength of the signal that they receive (thus not giving any indication useful to determine throughput)?

Thank you.

Tommaso

PS:
I cannot use directional antennas because I am using the device as an AP for the very room from which it is broadcasting outside and I cannot hang the device on the wall opposite the window (in which direction it would have to broadcast) for a number of reasons (cabling, aesthetics, etc). Therefore it has to be hidden behind the curtains, close to the window, with a clear line of sight to the garden (where the clients will be located) and 360° broadcasting for the clients in the rest of the room.

I will, eventually, buy the devices that you mention but for the moment I am using a friend's devices to test positioning and other factors.

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[ascanio1]

Tomorrow a friend will lend me his ubiquity AP and I will post comparisons

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[ascanio1]

From. MichaelCG's explanation I gather that APs have less work to do and, therefore, should deliver greater throughput.

I have been researching internet for a comparison to educate myself: AP vs Router.

I found tons of explanations of what they are and how they work with specialist jargon and technical explanations but no layman's explanation with simple, clear, pros/cons for AP vs Router for the IT challenged ... (read IT retarded individuals as myself).

PS:
Should I post this question in a more appropriate forum or can I attach it to this thread?


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[sm00thpapa]

You can always keep the router indoors and run a wire to an outdoor antenna.


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