PowerCloud Systems Skydog Beta Reviewed

[Razor512]

In a recent article, the beta version of the Skydog router was reviewed.
http://www.smallnetbuilder.com/wire...32148-powercloud-systems-skydog-beta-reviewed


Is it just me or does the whole concept behind that router seems like a bad idea?

The router immediately shows some of it's issues, Many of it's monitoring tools are offered on free 3rd party firmware which do not require any 3rd party servers. (with the exception of a select few features that are more or less gimmicks)

Linking the function of a product to the cloud means that you are gambling on the servers staying up for as long as you will want to use the product.

The 3 year claim means nothing because there is no guarantee that they will be in business a year from now, or even a trillionth of a nanosecond from now.

It is just as bad as online DRM used by many games. if if the DRM server dies, then your games get dragged down to hell with the servers.

Furthermore unless the company is willing to give out all source code involved on both the router level and server side, there is no way to build any sort of trust with them. No security is perfect and imagine if they get hacked and everyone gets their router settings changed to use a malicious DRM server, then communications to the cloud crap gets blocked at the router level to prevent them from fixing it?


Giving a 3rd party full control over your network requires a lot of trust, and their current business model does not qualify any trust. Their policies only cover them self when things go bad.

Furthermore in looking at the images of the PCB, the router is clearly built to a low cost (similar to what you will find in a lesser brand (eg rosewill and other uncommon/ cheap brands)

The caps are cheap 85C ones

very few components to handle noise

design looks largely autorouted with very little human aftethought (as if a company provided them with a generic cheap router for them to slap a name tag on)

transmit power is very low for a modern router (closer to what was available with early 802.11n routers)

Overall the item seems to be targeted at having the highest profit margin possible, and then further increase profits by collecting fees for the cloud service.

It has some interesting features but none of them should require cloud crap, modern routers are more than enough powerful to do statistics and monitoring locally, and graphics can be done using ajax like with tomato.

FCCID page https://fcc.io/U2M/-WBR4200AGN

 

[thiggins]

I have added PowerCloud's responses regarding security to the article.

Hybrid local / cloud products are here to stay. All consumer network product manufacturers either have them now in some form or will in the future.

The majority of consumers have shown by their actions that convenience is valued over privacy when it comes to internet based services.

So, no, the product concept is not a bad idea, per se.

To my mind, the primary concern is the long-term viability of the company. Because, as you point out, without the cloud services, Skydog becomes a very basic N600 router.

 

[Fraoch]

I was going to write all sorts of things about this then I realized I'm really, really not the intended market. Nor are most of the people who read this site actually.

It's not my thing at all, just like Bose and Apple are not my thing at all either.

It appears I'm in the minority about all three.

 

[thiggins]

I was going to write all sorts of things about this then I realized I'm really, really not the intended market. Nor are most of the people who read this site actually.

You would be surprised at the range of people who read SNB.

 

[Jeffspears]

I was actually waiting for that device to hit the market for reviews so thanks for the early preview of it.

The device itself focus on its software being its selling point, hardware wasnt their focus, and in my experience Router Software has certainly been lagging in monitoring improvements, yeah might not be important for all but for homes with large families this could be a peacekeeper device if you know what I mean.

-I am wondering a couple of things that I couldnt find in the review, is there a limit on devices connected to the network like only 10-20 devices could be tagged or logged?(since Cisco did this sort of controlled back in the days)

-You mentioned there are other routers that provides such controls or more at the end of the article, I would appreciate you mentioning a couple, I am interested in seeing what they offer more.

I too dont appreciate the cloud stuff but I am willing to yeel for having more control over my network.

 

[Razor512]

for monitoring, I highly recommend a router that can run the tomato firmware. It offers some really good monitoring features.

while it may not do everything that skydog does, but it does most (including many features that it does not have have , especially some of the live data)

And best of all, no external server needed so your product that you spent money on will continue to work.

eg with my WNR3500l V2 works great with downloading torrents, it also runs as a VPN server (for both pptp and open VPN)

full and selective TOR routing at the router level.

Also allows for web monitoring (if you want to monitor which sites each computer is going on)

A bunch of USB storage options, and a bunch more

Features:
- OpenVPN integration and GUI
- Transmission 2.76 integration
- GUI for Transmission
- Custom log file path
- SD-idle tool integration for kernel 2.6
- 3G Modem support
- SNMP integration and GUI
- Extended Sysinfo
- QOS-detailed & ctrate filters
- Realtime bandwidth monitoring of LAN clients
- Static ARP binding
- VLAN administration GUI
- Multiple LAN support integration and GUI
- Configurable QOS class names
- Comprehensive QOS rule examples set by default
- Revised IP/MAC Bandwidth Limiter
- DNScrypt-proxy integration and GUI
- UDPxy integration and GUI
- NFS server integration and GUI
- APCUPSD (UPS Monitor) integration and GUI
- HFS/HFS+ filesystem sypport
- Captive Portal. (Based in NocatSplash)
- PPTP Server/Client with GUI
- MultiSSID with GUI
- TOR Project
- TomatoAnon Project
- TTB Project

(possibly soon to some, bittorrent sync for the router (imagine a simple p2p way to backup data t a router, or even mirror the storage on 1 router, to another with storage, all without relying on a cloud crap that you have to pay for and can disappear at any moment)

and like before, all without the need of the router to connect to any cloud crap.

for the features offered by skydog, all of them can be handled within the router and for remote access to the info and controls, it can use a dynamic DNS service, but instead they went with a cloud based service that forces users to pay to access their routers.

tomato essentially gives you the features of skydog (minus the ability to set time limits for certain sites), for free and without the cloud, while still offering access from anywhere in the world (if you enable it and use dyndns or any other DNS site (or memorize your ip address)


skydog requiring cloud crap to run is the equivalent of outsourcing the job of starting your car to a call center, where you must call in and bed someone there to start your car.

 

[Jeffspears]

I am a proud owner of 2 Tomato routers, love it, its great with huge potential but I think you will agree with me that it doesnt have all monitoring features infact an important one in homes is usage quote and it doesnt support that(Limiting usage per week in GB).

Also using Tomato requires you to have some understanding of Networks like IP/Static IP and Mac Address those concepts arent easy to comprehind. Making a Guest Network in Tomato is not a 2 click process (u need to go to Network declare a DHCP than go to Virtual Network and create one and ofc Vlan configuration), anyway it gets complicated very easy and I would not want to explain all that to my sister over the phone cause she will need someone to explain to get what she wants.

And there is no grouping devices to one user, you know I'd hate going on about whats missing cause Tomato was made by geeks for geeks not mom or dad and thats understandable. There is alot of room for improvement in the router's software and current venders are down playing that (this router gets u 900Mb speed but fals to tell u how much net you consumed in a month). I am not saying this is the best software but its a good start and might get the ball rolling.

Cloud would be great if it was a feature not a mandate I am sure I would love checking on usage and stuff when I am at work along with paying the bills but as long as I am asked not forced to have this feature. Cause as paranoid geeks (all are) I would rather not have my data viewed by 3rd party or datamind and still be charged a fee (Treat me like google fiber, use my data for a reduced price). Plus I am sure Router hardware could run any report they want.

All I am saying is Tomato & Skydog serve 2 different purposes.

 

[thiggins]

I am wondering a couple of things that I couldnt find in the review, is there a limit on devices connected to the network like only 10-20 devices could be tagged or logged?(since Cisco did this sort of controlled back in the days)

I'll check on this.

-You mentioned there are other routers that provides such controls or more at the end of the article, I would appreciate you mentioning a couple, I am interested in seeing what they offer more.

Some features were mentioned earlier in the article, i.e. triggered port forwarding, USB file and printer sharing.

 

[Jeffspears]

I'll check on this.

Some features were mentioned earlier in the article, i.e. triggered port forwarding, USB file and printer sharing.

Sorry I misunderstood your statement

"Bottom line is that Skydog is targeted at a specific group of users who want to closely monitor and manage access to the internet and are willing to pay a premium for those features. Since I have no kids and really don’t need to restrict access to the internet, there are routers with more features that are more appealing to me. "

I thought you meant similar monitoring features when you said more features, as I understand it now you actually were referring to more router features not monitoring ones.

 

[sfx2000]

Getting back on topic - I see this as proof of concept.

The hardware itself - basic QC Atheros Reference design - it's a Senao box, and they have a decent rep for hardware.

The special sauce here is the SW - not everyone's cub of tea, but for a specific segment of the market, it fills a niche.

The heavy contributors here on the SNB forum - we're likely not that niche.