Replacement Router

[kamaran]

I run a home network with a router and 2 separate access points (all are DLink Dir-655), these are connected via HomePlugs and service approximately 25 wired IP and 15 wireless devices in total.

One of the APs services a network streamer for HD movies, this connected to my main router (via Homeplugs) and from there a NAS.

Occasionally the movies stutter, my thoughts are that this could be the homeplugs (they are 500mbps and test results to and from the NAS are good), but could also be the throughput in the router maxing out.

Can anyone recommend a router with wireless included - would a more powerful main router with higher overall maximum throughput help for when the network is under high load?

Was thinking of going for the RT-AC68U, but sounds like this may not be the panacea that everyone thought it would be.

 

[coxhaus]

You don’t really state how much internet bandwidth you have. You also state you have 40 unknown devices which may be able to chew up some internet bandwidth. So, on the surface, it could be a lot of things going on. I think you will need to narrow does your question and give us more information.

Generally Blueray HD TV tend to run better wired vs wireless.

 

[kamaran]

Thanks for your reply.

I have a 60mbps internet link.

Most of my devices only consume bandwidth when being used (ie phone, tablet, printer), the only exception is my 3 IP cameras which are always on and seemed to have caused quite a strain on the network.

Unfortunately due to the location of the network streamer, the best I can do is connect via an AP (which uses homeplugs to connect to the router).

 

[kamaran]

anyone care to comment?

I guess the underlying question is will one of the new generation routers provider better overall performance and throughput for my LAN, both wired and wireless.

 

[stevech]

do some/all of the IP cameras stream constantly out to the internet? I'll assume not.

Each camera probably consumes less than 3Mbps. Even with a 10/100 LAN, that's small.
If the streaming is going to a server to disk, or to PC screens, on the same LAN, the router isn't an issue- since the traffic is intra-LAN, not routed (is switched, and that's not a load on the router). If you can, you can put all the cameras and the related server or PCs on their own LAN switch, and that traffic won't reach other switches or the router. But that's likely not needed due to the light load presented by the cameras.

If the cams go out the internet, I think that (a) your ISP will object, eventually, unless you have an appropriate contract type; (b) what's the ISP's rated upstream data rate? Typically 10-20% of the downstream rate.

 

[kamaran]

do some/all of the IP cameras stream constantly out to the internet? I'll assume not.

Each camera probably consumes less than 3Mbps. Even with a 10/100 LAN, that's small.
If the streaming is going to a server to disk, or to PC screens, on the same LAN, the router isn't an issue- since the traffic is intra-LAN, not routed (is switched, and that's not a load on the router). If you can, you can put all the cameras and the related server or PCs on their own LAN switch, and that traffic won't reach other switches or the router. But that's likely not needed due to the light load presented by the cameras.

If the cams go out the internet, I think that (a) your ISP will object, eventually, unless you have an appropriate contract type; (b) what's the ISP's rated upstream data rate? Typically 10-20% of the downstream rate.

Hi there, thanks for the reply.

Cameras only stream to internet on demand (quite rarely) but are always on

My upstream is 4mbps, compared to 60mbps down.

 

[PrivateJoker]

It's hard to get a firm handle on, like @Stevech & @coxhaus have mentioned, but I'm thinking with a total of around 40 clients (with varied, sporadic levels of activity), two APs, a NAS, a media streamer, 3 IP cameras, connected on a backbone of Homeplugs that the Homeplugs might be the issue, or at least bear taking a closer look at, before you look at the router for being a choke point.

I've read that the newer AV2 homeplugs can get 70-100Mb/s downlink speeds in real world home distances. (And still, that might not even be the Homeplugs you're running, or the link speed you're getting) What I haven't ever read is what happens when multiple Homeplugs are plugged into a network connecting things like a NAS, media streamer, or additional APs, all sharing the same mains power as their conduit.

If your NAS, media streamer, and all APs/router were wired w/ gigabit, I would wager you wouldn't be having the sub-optimal network performance that you came here to try to resolve. I'm guessing doing 10-20 runs of gigabit isn't too feasible, but even just getting a couple things (i.e. NAS, media streamer, main router) connected via GbE might be feasible and not that crazy of an expense (maybe even somewhere in the neighborhood of what a high end new AC router might cost).

If running any wires (either yourself, or paying someone to do it) is out of the question, maybe replace one or two of the homeplugs with 802.11n (dual band, hopefully 5ghz works at good speed at your range, but you can always fall back on 2.4ghz) media bridges. Either the "out of the box" pre-configured media bridges or get any router that runs DD-WRT or Tomato and run it in a wireless to wired bridge mode. I have media streaming type devices (AppleTV & Vizio Smart TVs, Panasonic Smart TVs, Samsung Bluray w/ DLNA, etc) and all but one have wifi built in, but I don't use it, instead I connect them either directly to hardwired ethernet or a switch, or a router in bridged mode because two routers talking to each other tend to have far faster, more stable throughput than the wifi in most client devices could ever do.

I just double checked and saw that your DLink Dir-655s are 2.4ghz 802.11n 300Mb, and seem not to support DD-WRT or any bridged mode with stock f/w, well that kind of stinks, but I do think you would get some wifi improvement stepping up to a newer dual band 802.11n router.

 

[kamaran]

Thank you for the detailed reply.

I've had mixed experiences with wireless in the past, so I think I will sit it out and wait for the upcoming HomePlug AV2 MIMO adapters.

I'm pretty sure it's the IP Cameras tipping over the network, because the problems started as soon as they were introduced and I began running BlueIris surveillance software as a service on my NAS.

 

[stevech]

confusing... If your cameras are NOT streaming to a local PC, and NOT streaming to a recording disk or NAS,
and
the cameras only rarely stream out to the internet,e.g., when someone connects to the camera(s) (and you have port forwarding in the router to permt such),

then there'd be on WAN or LAN streaming if no one is taking a camera feed?

 

[kamaran]

confusing... If your cameras are NOT streaming to a local PC, and NOT streaming to a recording disk or NAS,
and
the cameras only rarely stream out to the internet,e.g., when someone connects to the camera(s) (and you have port forwarding in the router to permt such),

then there'd be on WAN or LAN streaming if no one is taking a camera feed?

They are streaming to my NAS (where BlueIris is installed)

 

[stevech]

That's LAN only. Does not use the router's routing functions.
may make no difference, but can you put all the cameras and the NAS on the same switch, and one switch port goes to the WiFi router's LAN port?

Again, the streaming video to the NAS should be a small fraction of the LAN's capacity. Remote viewing by Internet users is a different story... your ISP's speed caps, and so on, for home servers which most ISPs discourage.

 

[kamaran]

That's LAN only. Does not use the router's routing functions.
may make no difference, but can you put all the cameras and the NAS on the same switch, and one switch port goes to the WiFi router's LAN port?

Again, the streaming video to the NAS should be a small fraction of the LAN's capacity. Remote viewing by Internet users is a different story... your ISP's speed caps, and so on, for home servers which most ISPs discourage.

Just checked and both the main homeplug and NAS are connected directly to the router.

 

[PrivateJoker]

Thank you for the detailed reply.

I've had mixed experiences with wireless in the past, so I think I will sit it out and wait for the upcoming HomePlug AV2 MIMO adapters.

I'm pretty sure it's the IP Cameras tipping over the network, because the problems started as soon as they were introduced and I began running BlueIris surveillance software as a service on my NAS.

So if you temporarily halt the surveillance software on the NAS, instantly your streamed media from NAS to streaming devices clears up & looks acceptable? If I understand correctly it looks like maybe the NAS's CPU (but potentially not its LAN throughput?) is getting bogged down. Does the NAS do any on the fly transcoding of some or all file types?

 

[kamaran]

Well with BlueIris running, the NAS CPU hovers at around 60%+, without it running, it goes down to around 15% - so you may have a point!

No transcoding, but it is pulling in data from 3 cameras simultaneously, its a HP Microserver N36L, so not the most powerful machine.

It may be a combination of factors, as the network streamer has been performing better since I upgraded from 200mbps to 500mbps Homeplugs 2 months ago.

 

[kamaran]

So I have a new Xeon powered NAS and the problem still persists. Even with the blueiris surveillance software running, CPU utilisation is less than 5%, however I'm still experiencing stuttering of files on the streamer.

 

[kamaran]

I discovered with some HD streams the stream goes up to 75 Mbps, and at this point I was experiencing stuttering, so I think the conclusion for now is that it's the home plugs are the bottleneck.


Incidentally, by monitoring the bandwidth on my server I was able to identify that each IP Cam is constantly streaming around 2.5 Mbps, so therefore I have a 7.5 mbps constantly running through the network.

 

[stevech]

Some IP cams, like mine (Panasonic), do area of interest motion detection within the camera then stream pre-alarm video then real time to the NAS archiver. That unloads a lot of CPU work from the NAS.

 

[remixedcat]

For transcoding I recommend an NAS that has at the VERY least a 2Ghz core 2 duo or higher. If yours doesn't have that then that's a problem.

Also it's required for your router to have a fast processor in it as well so it does better computing the networking commands. My old Netgear would CHOKE on torrents or streaming from more then 2 PCs (even on wired connection). If people have a lot of other stuff internet/network related it slowed down to a crawl and often you'd have to wait too long for stuff.

I upgraded to an Amped Wireless router and they got fast processors in them too. Much faster. 660Mhz compared to the Netgear's 240Mhz. Same connection. Better experience.

Also doing stuff like checking congestion on the wireless side, using good cables (not those cheap POS from walmart or wherever) and also keeping drivers updated and such.


Edit: Found your DIR655's CPU speed: CPU1: Ubicom IP5160U (275 MHz) That is NOT gonna cut it. Mine is: CPU1: Realtek RTL8197D (660 MHz)
(Source 1:http://wikidevi.com/wiki/D-Link_DIR-655_rev_A1/A2 Source 2:http://wikidevi.com/wiki/Amped_Wireless_RTA15)

 

[kamaran]

Thanks

I don't transcode on the server and my NAS is a Xeon E3-1265v2 processor quad core with HT (almost i7 speed), Network cables are all Belkin STP Cat 6, but I do think that the processor in the Router may be a bottleneck - hence starting this thread..

 

[remixedcat]

Also on mine I have 2 brands of homeplugs and they get around 80-120Mbps.