Roku Launches Zippy New Streamer - Roku 3 Review

[flamaest]

This thing would kill if it could do SMB.

I really don't get why this is such a hard thing to add to these boxes.

Sounds like a marketing thing to get you to buy netflix.

 

[thiggins]

It's really more a matter of the product's heritage and target application. As the WD TV devices show, it's possible to product a product at the same price point that does play from DLNA and support more formats.

 

[RickyTick]

One of the screenshots showed the Roku Channel Store. The very first icon is TWC TV, which is Time Warner Cable. Yet, in the review is states that the Roku 3 does not support Comcast, nor Time Warner.

Did I mis-read something. If I can get TWC TV on this, it's a winner.

Thanks

 

[thiggins]

No streamers support cable tv. Those references were regarding those companies' support of HBO GO.

 

[RickyTick]

No streamers support cable tv. Those references were regarding those companies' support of HBO GO.

Okay, if it doesn't support HBO GO that's fine with me.

But TWC TV is different. As long as you're a Time Warner customer, it allows you to watch live TV on a PC, iPad, iPod, and some Android tablets. It essentially takes the place of having a cable box in other rooms. The downsides are that you can't pause live TV and you don't have any DVR type functions.

 

[RickyTick]

Maybe this clears things up a little.
http://www.roku.com/channels/#!details/23048/time-warner-cable

 

[thiggins]

I stand corrected. Thanks for the information.

 

[aaronwt]

I just saw the review for the Roku 3. It erroneously states that it uses Bluetooth to communicate with the remote. The Roku2 did but the Roku 3 uses Wi-Fi Direct.

My Roku 3 is using 5Ghz channel 165 to communicate with the remote. I use the wired connection on my Roku 3 for internet access. When I first started using the Roku3, it started using the same channel as my closest AP to communictae with the remote, channel 40. So all my devices link speeds wer cut to 150Mb/s or less(instead of the normal 200Mb/s to 300Mb/s link rate). And the throughput I had to each device was also basically cut in half. I had to force it to use another channel, so I forced it to use channel 165, so now I don't have any speed issues with my 5Ghz bridges and devices.

If i were using the wireless connection, the Wi-Fi direct will always be using the same frequency as that. So my speeds would have to be screwed up since to connect to my Ap it has to connect to the channel of my AP. I would not be able to force it to a different channel. So because of that I will never use the WiFi connection on my Roku 3.

When my ROku 3 is rebooted for a software update, I will need to force it to a different channel again. SInce it will grab the channel of the AP again when it reboots.

 

[Craig Ellison]

Thanks for the correction. Initially I was advised that the remote was Bluetooth with Wi-Fi Direct for the audio.

I went back to Roku and they confirmed that the remote uses Wi-Fi Direct. It does appear to use 5Ghz for the Wi-Fi direct link. On my unit the SSID is
DIRECT-roku-132.

It shows up on my iPad, but not on any of my Android devices, so I know that it's 5GHz. While I have analyzers for 2.4GHz, I don't have them for 5GHz.

 

[beq]

So the Roku 3 can connect to the home Wi-Fi infrastructure on 2.4 or 5 GHz, and at the same time maintain a separate Wi-Fi Direct 5 GHz connection to the remote.

I'd asked in the Roku forum, how is this possible?

It's one thing if it uses 2.4 GHz for Wi-Fi infrastructure and simultaneous 5 GHz for Wi-Fi Direct (though I'd still be surprised that at this price point, the Roku would have the wireless hardware capability of a simultaneous dual-band/dual-radio Wi-Fi router/AP, which is usually a high-end model).

But how can the Roku also connect to Wi-Fi infrastructure and Wi-Fi Direct at the same time if both are on 5 GHz?

 

[Craig Ellison]

Yes. I tested both use cases. The Wi-Fi Direct connection is only on 5GHz. I have separate 2.4GHz and 5GHz networks and the Roku was able to connect to either network without losing the remote control functionality.

Clearly, the Roku does has simultaneous dual-band capabilities.

Also, see aaronwt's post above about is experience using 5GHz.

-craig-

 

[bodean]

Does the Roku 3 support MKV streaming from my pc?

 

[kaiguy]

Not natively. You can use software like Plex Media Server on your PC to stream to the Plex app on the Roku. But natively the Roku doesn't support MKV HTTP streaming. So PMS will transcode or remux to a compatible format. I can attest that Plex works great on the Roku, and streams 1080p files very well.

 

[beq]

Yes. I tested both use cases. The Wi-Fi Direct connection is only on 5GHz. I have separate 2.4GHz and 5GHz networks and the Roku was able to connect to either network without losing the remote control functionality.

Clearly, the Roku does has simultaneous dual-band capabilities.

Also, see aaronwt's post above about is experience using 5GHz.

-craig-

Thanks for the info. How does Wi-Fi Direct work in other devices, I wonder? Does the Roku 3 really have a dual-band radio to connect to the AP, and a physically separate 5GHz radio for the remote?

Or does it share one radio for both connections (ie. multiplex the Wi-Fi Direct isolated network into the same link)?

Reminds me of the old Intel My WiFi that underlies Intel WiDi (precursor to Wi-Fi Direct that underlies Miracast).

IIRC Intel My WiFi created two virtual radios from one physical radio, thereby simultaneously connecting to the main Wi-Fi network as well as an isolated wireless PAN (of up to 8 devices). Is this how Wi-Fi Direct works as well?


Edit: The Wi-Fi Direct document says that optionally:

"Some devices include concurrent Wi-Fi AP and peer-to-peer connection"

"Devices can link directly to a group of Wi-Fi Direct-certified devices, but can also share a network connection with the group"

"Two separate security domains are in place. The group security domain ... and the WLAN security domain ... Management features defined in the underlying specification can enable IT
managers to prevent this type of cross-connection"

"This is an optional feature; not all Wi-Fi Direct devices can support simultaneous WLAN connection"

Seems to imply sharing of one physical radio.

 

[beq]

BTW has anyone had the Wi-Fi Direct remote randomly disconnecting after a time requiring a reboot? Trying to see if it's a widespread problem.

And what about battery life? Strangely, one site thinks Wi-Fi Direct will last longer than the previous Bluetooth remote

 

[beq]

Speaking of Miracast (aka Wi-Fi Display wireless screen mirroring which runs on top of Wi-Fi Direct), rumor is that it's coming to the Roku in a firmware update. But some reports say it needs dual-band Wi-Fi Direct (see here, here, here, and here)?

"While Miracast must run over 2.4GHz to negotiate a connection between two devices, it can already stream over the 5GHz band once the connection is made..."

"Miracast uses the existing 2.4GHz Wi-Fi connection to negotiate a 5GHz Wi-Fi Direct connection specifically for the streaming of video."

Then again those reports may be referring to an optional part of Miracast called TDLS (PDF)? Unlike Wi-Fi Direct, TDLS deals with two devices already connected to the same AP, and lets them establish a direct link separate but simultaneous to the main network. The negotiation happens over the main network, but then the link itself is offloaded from the AP.

The TDLS link can even switch to 5GHz if the main network is on 2.4GHz, in which case the devices (since they only have one physical radio) put the AP connection on hold, but must switch back periodically.

 

[thiggins]

Wi-Fi Direct FAQ

http://www.wi-fi.org/sites/default/files/uploads/files/faq_20101021_Wi-Fi_Direct_FAQ.pdf

 

[beq]

Thanks Tim! So in the real world, are most existing Wi-Fi Direct devices capable of simultaneous connection to an infrastructure network? Of those that are, are the same physical radios being shared for both? The specs seem to deal with what certified devices are capable of, without defining the physical implementation:

"Some devices certified under the Wi-Fi Direct program will support connections to both an infrastructure network and Wi-Fi Direct-certified group at the same time... Simultaneous connection to a Wi-Fi Direct-certified group and an infrastructure network is an optional feature."

"...this is not Ad-Hoc mode but an extension to the ubiquitous infrastructure mode of operation that can operate without a dedicated access point... With the technology underlying Wi-Fi Direct, a device can maintain a simultaneous connection to an infrastructure network – this isn’t possible with Ad Hoc."



But if the Roku 3 does have dedicated radio hardware for the Wi-Fi Direct connection to the remote (which is using 5GHz), then that hardware must in fact be dual-band capable?

"All Wi-Fi Direct devices operate in the 2.4 GHz frequency band... In addition, some Wi-Fi Direct devices work in the 5 GHz frequency band... Many devices operate in both frequency bands."

"Devices operating in the 2.4 GHz frequency band only and devices operating in both the 2.4GHz and 5 GHz frequency bands can be certified under the Wi-Fi Direct program."

I doubt the Roku would have one dual-band radio for Internet, and an independent dual-band radio for Wi-Fi Direct. But I wonder if it does have one 2.4GHz radio and another 5GHz radio?

If in fact there's only one dual-band radio, then how would it connect to Internet via 2.4GHz and to the remote via 5GHz (since a radio can physically connect to only one frequency at a time)? Would the radio constantly swap bands back and forth so as not to drop either connection?

 

[beq]

FYI I thought my Eye-Fi SD cards received Wi-Fi Direct certification in an update, but they must still toggle between connecting to an existing infrastructure or Direct (not both simultaneously). Maybe I'm wrong on the certification.

Other wireless storage gadgets like the Kingston Wi-Drive or the Seagate Wi-Fi hard drives can do concurrent connections, but I think they use proprietary implementations and not Wi-Fi Direct?

 

[thiggins]

From the FAQ linked previously:

How many devices can connect?
A WiFi Direct certified network can be one to one, or one to many. The number of devices in a WiFi Direct certified group network is expected to be smaller than the number supported by traditional standalone access points intended for consumer use. Connection to multiple other devices is an optional feature that will not be supported in all WiFi Direct certified devices; some devices will only make 1:1 connections.

Optional means optional. You can't assume anything about the number of products that support this mode.

Single radio APs have been capable of creating multiple connections for awhile. Think of single radio repeaters, and even APs with multiple SSIDs.

To operate on both bands simultaneously, there must be two radios.