Router+NAS for Optware

[Jules]

Can anyone recommend a Router+NAS?

- I'm looking for a combined router+NAS, so there's just one box that's left on 24/7.

- I backup virtual hard-drives to the NAS via rsync, so probably need the ability to run Optware. These are typically 32GB files, so need Gigabit network and good read/write speeds to the disk. Actually, it takes 20 minutes to copy a 32GB file via USB2 to an external hard drive, and that kind of performance (200MB) over the network would be great. It's rare to find one of these boxes with a SATA interface for some reason, so while that would be nice, USB2 will do.

- I often go to work with a colleague in someone else's office, using the host's WiFi. So bridging is essential (Have used DD-WRT for the in the past and can recommend it). Then I can access the NAS via cable and still connect to the Net via the bridge.

- 2nd USB supporting Mobile broadband dongle would be nice, because we sometimes work in other peoples' offices where we can't get WiFi reliably, and end up wasting a lot of time trying to fix it for them . In practice I expect Optware would support a modem in any available USB slot, even if the native firmware didn't. Unfortunately, 2nd USB is rare, so may have to just swap USB disk and USB dongle as required.

- Less important but nice to have is repeating, so my colleague can access the NAS via WiFi and still connect to the Net via the bridge. Otherwise, he can connect via cable so not a deal breaker.

- Good WiFi performance is a nice-to-have but doesn't need to be anything special. We're not gaming. Kids watch youtube videos but that shouldn't be a challenge. All distances between computers/router/bridged WiFi are relatively small.

- For system performance, and because I may install other Optware packages, it needs good processor and RAM.

- Price - not too bothered, anything under $300 / £200

- Reliability - 100% is important. A router should work reliably for months at a time without being rebooted.

Here are 3 possibles that I came up with:

Asus RT-N16
Gigabit Wireless N Router
2 x USB
128MB RAM + 32MB Flash
533MHZ Broadcom BCM4718 processor
http://www.asus.com/product.aspx?P_ID=WAa6AQFncrceRBEo
Review: http://www.smallnetbuilder.com/wire...eless-n-router-with-all-in-one-printer-server
Optware: http://www.yourbts.com/blog/installing-tomato-and-optware-on-an-asus-rt-n16-router
Tomato but not OpenWrt: https://dev.openwrt.org/ticket/6580

Netgear WNDR3700
Gigabit Wireless N Router Dual band
1 x USB disk - ReadyShare
64mb RAM
680 MHz MIPS processor
WDS Repeating / bridging
http://www.netgear.com/Products/RoutersandGateways/WirelessNRoutersandGateways/WNDR3700.aspx
Review: http://www.smallnetbuilder.com/wire...5-start-your-buying-netgear-wndr3700-reviewed
Optware: http://wiki.openwrt.org/inbox/netgear/wndr3700

D-Link DIR-825 (B1 model)
Gigabit Wireless N Router Dual band
1 x USB SharePort
32MB RAM
600 MHz Atheros AR7161 WNPU processor
http://www.dlink.com/products/?pid=681
OpenWRT: http://secure.dd-wrt.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=57708&highlight=dlink
Review: http://www.smallnetbuilder.com/wireless/wireless-reviews/30967-d-link-dir-825-b1-quick-review


D-Link DIR-685 has a great spec and SATA disk but doesn't appear to run Optware. Shame. Lots of the D-Links have USB but they don't publish RAM+Processor in the specs so hard to compare.

Thanks,
Jules

P.S. I was sent here from the ReadyNas forum.
http://www.readynas.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=25&t=41761
Thanks TeknoJnky!

 

[Jules]

Sorry, the correct link for the Asus RT-N16 review is...
http://www.smallnetbuilder.com/wireless/wireless-reviews/31058-asus-rt-n16-gigabit-n-router-reviewed
...where is says...
"But NAS throughput is very slow, measuring only 2 MB/s for write and 5 MB/s for read using our Vista SP1 file copy test."

2MB/s I was looking for 200MB/s out of USB2's theoretical maximum of 450MB/s.

Also, from http://forums.smallnetbuilder.com/showthread.php?t=2540 ...
"When using behind a firewall the DNS server does not work correctly"
And as it will be bridged, it will be behind a firewall.

So that's the Asus RT-N16 off the list. Shame because that's the one with by far the most RAM.

 

[thiggins]

You are not going to get 200 MB/s from a standalone NAS, let alone the "NAS" function built into some routers to lure buyers who don't know better.

Best I have seen is about 10 MB/s. No products run apps, either.

 

[Jules]

Sorry - I got the capitalization wrong. I meant 200Mb/s. Lets stick to megabits rather than megabytes.

If a device has a Gigabit network and USB2.0 external disk, then why can they only achieve 80Mb/s (10MB/s)? They don't have high end processors but then they don't have to do much processing - just moving data from one place to another, and most of that work is done by dedicated network hardware. These routers are designed to move data around at 300Mb/s. Where is the bottleneck?

Surely routers and NAS have very similar hardware. Why should they differ significantly in write performance?

I'm not disputing what you say, you should know, but I don't understand the reason - it doesn't make sense to me.

> No products run apps, either.
I'm talking about wiping the manufacturer's firmware/software, installing DD-WRT or OpenWRT or Tomato, then Optware, and then installing additional packages. I installed various Optware packages on my old Freecom DataTank, so I know it's possible. The devices I've shortlisted here all run Optware, right? Why would they not be able to run additional packages using ipkg?
http://www.dd-wrt.com/wiki/index.php/Ipkg

Thanks,
Jules

 

[thiggins]

Processor clock rate doesn't tell the whole story. The SoCs in routers are many times running the WLAN MAC layer as well as routing duties.

At any rate, the "NAS" performance is what it is.

Sorry for misunderstanding your Optware Q.

 

[Jules]

OK Tim, It's a slow and painful realization but your message is finally getting through...

The perfect solution doesn't exist and it's necessary to compromise on something. Routers' NAS performances are terrible and often unreliable, especially with large files. Low spec processor & RAM don't give Optware much room for maneuver either. With combined router & USB NAS, there's a lot of compromises.

A better solution would be a QNAP TS-219P Turbo NAS with 2 x 2TB Western Digital WD20EARS Caviar Green disks.

- With combined Router & USB, the external USB disk would require a separate power supply anyway, so separate router & NAS don't use THAT much additional power. The NAS is smart enough to power down fans and disks when not needed.
- The QNAPs come with ipkg installed, which will save me a lot of time. Optware is well documented and supported (http://wiki.qnap.com/wiki/Optware), and there's an active community (http://forum.qnap.com/viewforum.php?f=85), not a fringe activity like using Optware on those routers.
- The 1.2 GHz CPU and 512MB DDRII RAM is way better spec than those routers. Actually, it's a perfectly good linux server, powerful enough to run a LAMP web server, all for £230 + the cost of the disks (+ VAT / sales tax if you pay it).
- The 2 disks can be configured with Raid 0, which halves the available space, but if one disk fails the data is still safe. This is kind of important for backups of virtual hard drives.

The reason for my choice of disks? The Western Digital disks have a very low power consumption. I know because I use them in co-located servers to avoid paying for excess AMPs. Also, they are quiet: 24 dBA when idle as opposed to Seagate ST32000542AS @ 25 dBA, Samsung HD203WI @ 27 dBA, Hitachi Deskstar 7K2000 @ 29 dBA.

Of course, I'll still need one of those routers with USB for the bridging, mobile broadband etc, but thats a separate function to the NAS.

Thanks for your help,
Jules

 

[thiggins]

- The 2 disks can be configured with Raid 0, which halves the available space, but if one disk fails the data is still safe. This is kind of important for backups of virtual hard drives.

I think you meant RAID 1. RAID 0 will combine the space of both drives. But provides no redundancy.

RAID 1 or any RAID is not a substitute for backup. Controller or power supply failure could corrupt your volume, making recovery difficult, if not impossible.

 

[Jules]

> I think you meant RAID 1

Yes, sorry, that's what I meant. 2TB space is adequate for my needs, and I prefer RAID1's improved reliability to RAID 0's better performance.

> RAID 1 or any RAID is not a substitute for backup

I'm backing up virtual hard disks to the NAS, so the NAS IS the backup and RAID 1 is used to improve the reliability of the backup. All data is stored on laptops/desktops/servers AND the NAS.

> Controller or power supply failure could corrupt your volume

Not sure what you mean. Do you mean that I'll lose data if it is kept on the NAS alone and the NAS fails? Or is stolen etc. Or are you saying that RAID increases the probability of losing data, because they are more vulnerable to corruption and harder to recover than non-RAID?

Speaking of RAID controller reliability, don't know if the QNAP TS-219P has the following features, but will check...

- Battery to complete any writes stored in buffers in the event of a power failure.

- email/SMS alert if a disk drops out of the RAID. (I've heard that a lot of RAIDs are degraded without the administrators realising, until the 2nd disk goes, and they find data on the surviving disk is months out of date.)

Thanks,
Jules

 

[thiggins]

> RAID 1 or any RAID is not a substitute for backup

I'm backing up virtual hard disks to the NAS, so the NAS IS the backup and RAID 1 is used to improve the reliability of the backup. All data is stored on laptops/desktops/servers AND the NAS.

As long as you are ok with single level backup, then your strategy is fine.

> Controller or power supply failure could corrupt your volume

Not sure what you mean. Do you mean that I'll lose data if it is kept on the NAS alone and the NAS fails? Or is stolen etc. Or are you saying that RAID increases the probability of losing data, because they are more vulnerable to corruption and harder to recover than non-RAID?

Yes and yes. See Smart SOHOs Don't Do RAID

Speaking of RAID controller reliability, don't know if the QNAP TS-219P has the following features, but will check...

- Battery to complete any writes stored in buffers in the event of a power failure.

- email/SMS alert if a disk drops out of the RAID. (I've heard that a lot of RAIDs are degraded without the administrators realising, until the 2nd disk goes, and they find data on the surviving disk is months out of date.)

Consumer / prosumer grade NASes don't have battery backup built-in. Most all have email alerts. Some have audible alarms if there's a problem.

 

[Jules]

A better solution would be a QNAP TS-219P Turbo NAS with 2 x 2TB Western Digital WD20EARS Caviar Green disks.

So an even better solution would be 2 x QNAP TS-219P Turbo NAS with 1 x 2TB Western Digital WD20EARS Caviar Green disk in each (http://qnap.expertsinstorage.com/enclosures.html?cat=229)
to run in 2 locations (e.g. home & work) backing up to each other via rsync over the Internet.

The 2nd bay allows for future expansion. The dual device/location provides redundancy. Fault tolerance provided by RAID0 is not really required & can be dropped to reduce costs.

Thanks, Jules