Still having problems streaming on Android.

[cdysthe]

Hi,

I ave set up my RT-N66U with Merlin firmware but I still ave problems with Android devices: Their download speed (on the 2.4 ghz band) is considerably lower than computers and especially when streaming content like Internet radio the stream stalls every 1 - 2 minutes. Sometimes it starts again, but often it is totally locked up and I have to disable and enable wi-fi, or even reboot the phone to be able to play again. I have tried with three different phones. Same problem. I then connected my old D-Link router and streaming works fine although wi-fi reach is less and the speed is reduced compared to the Asus. What could be causing this problem on Android phones?

 

[PrivateJoker]

Do you get same symptoms with other wifi devices using same streaming sites/resources? (Ie if pandora & spotify crap out on Android do they also do so on a laptop?). And just for a baseline comparison have you tried turning off your wifi and checking the stream consistency over cell data?

 

[cdysthe]

Do you get same symptoms with other wifi devices using same streaming sites/resources? (Ie if pandora & spotify crap out on Android do they also do so on a laptop?). And just for a baseline comparison have you tried turning off your wifi and checking the stream consistency over cell data?

I know that Pandora doesn't drop on two laptops and one desktop computer. The other stream I have problems with is the Soma.fm player for Android, but Soma.fm doesn't have a player for Windows so the only comparison is to play off the web which seems to work fine. But all streaming content has this problem on Android except for low bitrate streams (24k) which plays well. All 128k streams drops after a minute or two. I will try over cell data also. Didn't think about that. Thanks!

 

[PrivateJoker]

Cool, let us know. Also if you have QOS on maybe try turning it off.

 

[jlake]

Hi,

I ave set up my RT-N66U with Merlin firmware but I still ave problems with Android devices: Their download speed (on the 2.4 ghz band) is considerably lower than computers and especially when streaming content like Internet radio the stream stalls every 1 - 2 minutes. Sometimes it starts again, but often it is totally locked up and I have to disable and enable wi-fi, or even reboot the phone to be able to play again. I have tried with three different phones. Same problem. I then connected my old D-Link router and streaming works fine although wi-fi reach is less and the speed is reduced compared to the Asus. What could be causing this problem on Android phones?

Can you post a screenshot of inSSIDer?

Have you read Merlin's sticky thread?

http://forums.smallnetbuilder.com/showthread.php?t=12825

 

[cdysthe]

Can you post a screenshot of inSSIDer?

Have you read Merlin's sticky thread?

http://forums.smallnetbuilder.com/showthread.php?t=12825

Thank you for pointing me to the troubleshooter post. I went through it and have a couple of comments:

I use the cable that came with the router, but I am using a Bluetooth speaker when I stream from the phone. However, I am cut off if I use ear phones also.

Strangely enough Pandora seems less affected by this than other apps. Maybe because it's lower bitrate? Again i put up the old router and it streams without problems. And just to be clear: No such problems with any of my computers which are both Linux and Windows desktops and laptops.

I do not know how to delete wifi networks from Android other than "forget" them. Not sure if everything gets deleted when I do that.

Here's a inSSIDer screenshot:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/t7sbxp3wajcxsrc/WifiHome.png

 

[PrivateJoker]

I would, just for troubleshooting purposes, leave the Bluetooth speaker off while you isolate the problem (even if it was working 100% ok before) just since it co-exists on 2.4ghz and uses constant frequency hopping.

I want to see if I can duplicate your problem, what exact ver of the f/w are you running and what is the max length Pandora can go without dropping?

Also I don't have an Android device in front of me but a quick google search did seem to reveal a ton of other people looking for ways to totally remove a wifi profile. Alternately, you can rename your SSID at the AP (or turn on guest networks and connect it to an SSID you create there, however it still might fall back on the original one if it sees it too, not sure).

PS - does your screenshot show up in your post as you see it? It doesn't for me for some reason.

 

[cdysthe]

I would, just for troubleshooting purposes, leave the Bluetooth speaker off while you isolate the problem (even if it was working 100% ok before) just since it co-exists on 2.4ghz and uses constant frequency hopping.

I want to see if I can duplicate your problem, what exact ver of the f/w are you running and what is the max length Pandora can go without dropping?

Also I don't have an Android device in front of me but a quick google search did seem to reveal a ton of other people looking for ways to totally remove a wifi profile. Alternately, you can rename your SSID at the AP (or turn on guest networks and connect it to an SSID you create there, however it still might fall back on the original one if it sees it too, not sure).

PS - does your screenshot show up in your post as you see it? It doesn't for me for some reason.

I added the screenshot as a Dropbox link. Can you access it now?

If not here it is: https://www.dropbox.com/s/t7sbxp3wajcxsrc/WifiHome.png

The firmware I am using is 3.0.0.4.374.32 (Merlin build). I will try to rename the access point to make sure I get a fresh setup of the connection from Android. I will start streaming again in the morning and see how far I get. I tested again placing the phone 6 feet away from the router. There problem was still there, but it seems to get worse with distance.

UPDATE:
This morning I have been streaming on my phone in the same room as the router without bluetooth. Same problem, stream cuts out after a minute or so. It comes back a couple of times, and then it stays stalled until I either restart the wi-fi connection or the player. I have also noticed that larger downloads like podcasts in Podkicker Pro very often stalls and I have to manually restart the download. That didn't use to happen either.

Could it be related to this:

http://forums.smallnetbuilder.com/showthread.php?t=12842

I have a very similar setup using OpenDNS.

http://forums.smallnetbuilder.com/showthread.php?t=12842

My setup and symptoms are very similar although I seem to only have the problem with Android phones.

 

[cdysthe]

I have found the culprit: DNS!

Hi,

I have found out what the problem with streaming was based on the post I pointed to above about connection problems using OpenDNS. My problem is also related to the DNS settings:

If I set OpenDNS manually in the RT-N66U ' WAN DNS settings streaming is interrupted every minute or so.

If I set the RT-N66U Re to automatic DNS from WAN (DHCP) I can stream normally again without any interruptions. I have had a stream running for an hour now on my phone. That has not been possible with my RT-N56U in a while, or at all. I do not know enough about networking to determine why the DNS settings matter in this regard, but they do.

I connect my RT-N66U to the AT&T U-verse modem/router in a DMZ (please do not tell me U-Verse suck, since I already know). I've used a similar setup with my previous D-Link router which also was connected to the AT&T modem/router with OpenDNS manually set. So whether this is a RT-N66U, firmware, or WAN/ISP related issue I am not able to determine.

I will try to set Google DNS to see if this is specifically happening when OpenDNS is used, or if it triggered simply by using manual DNS settings in the RT-N66U

 

[PrivateJoker]

Good troubleshooting and interesting diagnosis! I wonder if anyone here, or maybe on the Android forums, might have an idea why that happens.

PS - what version/s of android are you running?

 

[cdysthe]

Good troubleshooting and interesting diagnosis! I wonder if anyone here, or maybe on the Android forums, might have an idea why that happens.

PS - what version/s of android are you running?

Both 2.x and 4.x. Seems worse on 2.x. Guess I need to take it to the Androids! You do not think it could have to do with the AT&T modem in front on my Asus doing something that Android phones doesn't like?

 

[PrivateJoker]

Try Google's 8.8.8.8 and see if you can isolate to just any alternate non ISP DNS, or maybe something specific w/ OpenDNS.

Google & OpenDNS are both usually in the top 5 if I run one of the tester programs from a local machine, it would be interesting.

 

[saintdev]

Good troubleshooting and interesting diagnosis! I wonder if anyone here, or maybe on the Android forums, might have an idea why that happens.

PS - what version/s of android are you running?

I'm not sure why it would be specific to Android, but here is what MIGHT be going on. Content Distribution Networks (Akami, CloudFlare, etc) use the geographical location of the DNS server to determine what server is geographically closest. This is important with video streaming, because you want the least number of hops between you and the server. When you use something like OpenDNS or Google's DNS, they have no way of determining where you are located, only where the DNS server is located. This means you might get a server located far away.

So when using the DHCP provided DNS, you are most likely getting a different server that is located in a different location and has a better connection.

 

[PrivateJoker]

If you run Google's namebench it will tell you the underlying IP that a DNS uses, most of the big ones will resolve to multiple servers that they can use your IP (which is geolocated) and other network considerations to actually serve your DNS lookups and/or cache.

At the moment 8.8.8.8 (Google) actually resolves for me at 74.125.183.19) and OpenDNS (208.67.220.220) resolves to a server at the Dallas Equinix Internet exchange.

And if you look at you connections log live as you're doing streaming web content, the systems are so large and elastic that you might use 15-30 servers in one Netflix movie watching session (and those servers might be a blend of Akami, AWS, and netflix's own servers, it's pretty crazy).

 

[cdysthe]

I'm not sure why it would be specific to Android, but here is what MIGHT be going on. Content Distribution Networks (Akami, CloudFlare, etc) use the geographical location of the DNS server to determine what server is geographically closest. This is important with video streaming, because you want the least number of hops between you and the server. When you use something like OpenDNS or Google's DNS, they have no way of determining where you are located, only where the DNS server is located. This means you might get a server located far away.

So when using the DHCP provided DNS, you are most likely getting a different server that is located in a different location and has a better connection.

Very interesting! I guess Android phones are more sensitive to such things being powered with their lousy Foxconn wifi radios?

 

[cdysthe]

I have tried with Google and other DNS services today and they all make Android streams stall. The only way to secure smooth sailing is using automatic DNS from the ISP. I have now set it up with Yandex.DNS for computers to replace parental controls offered by OpenDNS and no parental control for Android phone to be able to stream.

 

[PrivateJoker]

I have tried with Google and other DNS services today and they all make Android streams stall. The only way to secure smooth sailing is using automatic DNS from the ISP. I have now set it up with Yandex.DNS for computers to replace parental controls offered by OpenDNS and no parental control for Android phone to be able to stream.

That's so bizarre. I have to think that it has to have come up on Android forums if it's an Android specific issue. If I get a Nexus 7v2 I will be sure to test and post my results.

 

[RMerlin]

Using your ISP DNS will ensure that you will stream from more local servers, so for anything involving streaming it's always best to. Otherwise, OpenDNS might point you at a server that's on the opposite end of the continent.

 

[PrivateJoker]

I have tried with Google and other DNS services today and they all make Android streams stall. The only wayobe to secure smooth sailing is using automatic DNS from the ISP. I have now set it up with Yandex.DNS for computers to replace parental controls offered by OpenDNS and no parental control for we Android phone to be able to stream.

1. Sorry if you mentioned this already but did you run a namebench (use your ISP DNS as the baseline in your router) and do a mouseover on both your ISP's and other top suggested ones to view where they resolve to? (Sometimes the URLs will have an area/city name in them or we can Whois on the IP to see where it is). Make sure to "include regional options" on namebench test.

2. Can you take a peek in your connection log when streaming the same service to an android device vs a PC. It's not too hard, and you can copy and paste it to a google doc and pretty easily see what streaming resources are being used by what IP. The connections log truncates long URLs but it's still useful. I did this the other day to discover my AppleTV was getting Netflix streams by a whole batch of servers that my Tivos weren't. In fact if you copy and paste the relevant bits I'd be glad to help you format if correctly if you want to PM me. Here's the one I made.

http://bit.ly/NetflixStreamingHDcomparo


3. Does streaming video have similar problems, or mostly just audio?

 

[cdysthe]

1. Sorry if you mentioned this already but did you run a namebench (use your ISP DNS as the baseline in your router) and do a mouseover on both your ISP's and other top suggested ones to view where they resolve to? (Sometimes the URLs will have an area/city name in them or we can Whois on the IP to see where it is). Make sure to "include regional options" on namebench test.

2. Can you take a peek in your connection log when streaming the same service to an android device vs a PC. It's not too hard, and you can copy and paste it to a google doc and pretty easily see what streaming resources are being used by what IP. The connections log truncates long URLs but it's still useful. I did this the other day to discover my AppleTV was getting Netflix streams by a whole batch of servers that my Tivos weren't. In fact if you copy and paste the relevant bits I'd be glad to help you format if correctly if you want to PM me. Here's the one I made.

http://bit.ly/NetflixStreamingHDcomparo


3. Does streaming video have similar problems, or mostly just audio?

Thanks, no I did not do namebench yet. I will get to it today and I will look in the logs as well.

Video streaming seems to work without problems. It's only streaming Internet radio like Radio Paradise, SomaFM and such that has the problem. Go figure!
I tried with a brand new Moto X (very hot phone) yesterday. Same glitchy playback of music streams!