Synology RT1900AC Router

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L&LD

Part of the Furniture
Not sure where that $400USD price point kicked in...

Quoted 150 Euro's is about $167USD, which puts it smack in the middle of the AC1900 class...
I was not thinking in USD, but CAD. But you're right, I was basing it off of what I remembered from the initial introduction and not what it is actually selling for now.

Either way, it is approx. $220 CAD which puts it much too close to the excellent RT-AC68U + RMerlin combo.

If they can enhance this first offering while also offering an upgraded version in the next year, I might be tempted to have a look then.
 

TheLostSwede

Regular Contributor
I agree mixing router with NAS is not ideal.

But unless they offer this product with an Intel i3 platform or higher and with more than 8gb ram, it will remain in the interesting section rather than a fully work capable option.

The $400 price tag is just silly. eMMC 4GB drive is worth $1.50 at most.
Uhm, what are you smoking? Do you have any idea about the cost of things?
4GB of eMMC is at least $2.50 in large volume, i.e. 100k pcs.

Besides, this router is selling for ~$140 in Taiwan already, as pointed out by my link to PC Home on page 1 of this thread.

A Core i3 router with 8GB of RAM doesn't make sense for consumers, as you'd end up using 20% of the processing power at the most.
It would waste a lot of power, be highly inefficient and most likely cost $600.
 

TheLostSwede

Regular Contributor
Would have been nice to see 32gb eMMC, as the cost delta isn't much, and pin compatible..

Having the eMMC though, it's a very good step over general NAND - not just faster, but more reliable over the long term..
The cost delta isn't much? Ok, let's calculate.
4GB eMMC, let's use the low price of $2.50.
16GB of eMMC, $5.
32GB of eMMC, I don't actually have a price for it, but let's say $10, as that's twice the 16GB price.
So now we have an additional component cost of $7.50 per unit.
You make 10k units and that's 75,000 in extra costs, you make 100k units and it's 750,000 in extra costs.
Then we have to add extra sales margins, distributor margins and retail margins and we're looking at an extra $50, as sadly, that's how the world works, everyone adds their margin.
So now your $140 router is $190...
 

L&LD

Part of the Furniture
I was not thinking in USD, but CAD. But you're right, I was basing it off of what I remembered from the initial introduction and not what it is actually selling for now.

Either way, it is approx. $220 CAD which puts it much too close to the excellent RT-AC68U + RMerlin combo.

If they can enhance this first offering while also offering an upgraded version in the next year, I might be tempted to have a look then.
The cost delta isn't much? Ok, let's calculate.
4GB eMMC, let's use the low price of $2.50.
16GB of eMMC, $5.
32GB of eMMC, I don't actually have a price for it, but let's say $10, as that's twice the 16GB price.
So now we have an additional component cost of $7.50 per unit.
You make 10k units and that's 75,000 in extra costs, you make 100k units and it's 750,000 in extra costs.
Then we have to add extra sales margins, distributor margins and retail margins and we're looking at an extra $50, as sadly, that's how the world works, everyone adds their margin.
So now your $140 router is $190...
Thanks, but I don't smoke anything. See my quoted reply which was one post above yours.
 

sfx2000

Part of the Furniture
The cost delta isn't much? Ok, let's calculate.
4GB eMMC, let's use the low price of $2.50.
16GB of eMMC, $5.
32GB of eMMC, I don't actually have a price for it, but let's say $10, as that's twice the 16GB price.
32GB eMMC spot price in Shenzen is $10 for Oct 2015 (100K) - with MLC VNAND launching on Toshiba, Micron, and Sandisk, I would expect prices to come down fast as we've seen in other NAND products.

The one factor that might keep those 32GB prices up is mobile phones/tablets, as next gen are headed towards eMMC from traditional NAND...
 

pete y testing

Very Senior Member
hi guys

pete y testing here from whilpool forums in oz

just got hold of the synology and i have to say things are not off to a great start

the 5 gig seems to be under powered by a far degree with rssi reading of -49 in the same room as the wireless adapter ( pce-ac68) , the 2.4 gig is -25db as expected , the synology is running a Broadcom BCM43460 for both its 2.4g and 5g which up until now hasnt beed used in a wireless router and only in a few mini pce and some soho grade aps


we have a few reports from users that the same low sync and low rssi so this might be more than a limited batch or individual product issue

https://onedrive.live.com/?id=7D5CB...42&group=0&parId=7D5CB240BE1A0742!144&o=OneUp

btw the zombie transmissions are my asus rt-ac68u

see

https://wikidevi.com/wiki/Synology_RT1900AC


its also running quite warm and i suspect the australian summer heat will not play nice with the synology

we here in oz seem to be the beta testers for this as its still quite buggy and still at initial firmware release stage

its certainly missing the polish and maturity of the asus and will need quite some time in the wild to get these issues sorted

so im sending this unit back to swap it for another to see if its just a one off but i suspect not and there is some design flaw or reason to have the 5 gig so underpowered

if you ask me is this any better overall for the money than an asus rt-ac68u and the answer is no

the synology is selling here in oz for about $243 aud , the asus rt-ac68u for around $200 aud and in the short time i have had the synology i cant find a reason to spend the extra money as i cant really see any basic differences between the two

-----------------

the synology fan base will try and pump this up but at this stage i would only recommend this if you want to pay an early adapter tax and be a beta tester for synology

pete

p.s i will post back here once i get the second unit and test

btw can anyone assist pointing out a synology rep that we can make contact with to report these issues and to give feedback and get fixes from etc as atn i feel link a bit like "The martian " not knowing where to turn or where to get answers from
 
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sfx2000

Part of the Furniture
Thanks for the update - it'll likely be a while before we see the Synology device up here in the US - perhaps 1Q-2016?

FWIW - the BCM4360 chips are pretty common up here - most AC1900 class Router/AP's available up here run them - Marvell, QC-Atheros, and Quantenna make up the balance, but the BCM4360 is the dominant Wave 1 11ac chipset for AP's...

Client side is a bit thin - but every Mac that supports 11ac also runs the 4360...In and of itself, it's a good chip - so with the Synology device, wondering if there's some driver/calibration work that needs to be done...

Interesting to note the heat concerns - while it's late Spring down there, it's late summer in SoCal (some days it still gets up into the upper 90's), the fact that you're seeing some issues - and if I recall from the board shots, it's passively cooled.
 

bigmag

Regular Contributor
BCM4360
PCIe abgn+ac 3x3:3
(1.3Gbps) 2012-04-20 DB 2.4/5GHz, 802.11ac
256-QAM, LDPC, PCIe 2.0
(14e4:4360) 12 devices 64 devices

BCM43460
PCIe abgn+ac 3x3:3
(1.3Gbps) 2013-04-18 5G Wi-Fi 3x3 2.4/5GHz
11ac MAC/PHY/Radio 2 devices 10 devices

https://wikidevi.com/wiki/Broadcom
 

pete y testing

Very Senior Member
Ah, the SOC, not the WiFi chipsets... got it.
Radio 2.4/5 GHz: 2x Broadcom BCM43460

WI1 chip1: Broadcom BCM43460
WI1 802dot11 protocols: an+ac
WI1 MIMO config: 3x3:3
WI1 antenna connector: U.FL, PR-SMA
WI2 chip1: Broadcom BCM43460
WI2 802dot11 protocols: bgn
WI2 MIMO config: 3x3:3
WI2 antenna connector: U.FL, PR-SMA
 

pete y testing

Very Senior Member
Hmm it's also in the R7000 netgear as well..
no the r7000 has the

WI1 chip1: Broadcom BCM4360
WI1 802dot11 protocols: an+ac
WI1 MIMO config: 3x3:3
WI1 antenna connector: U.FL, RP-SMA
WI2 chip1: Broadcom BCM4360
WI2 802dot11 protocols: bgn
WI2 MIMO config: 3x3:3
WI2 antenna connector: U.FL, RP-SMA

which is the stock standard chipset in may 1900ac class router , the synology has a different chipset for wifi

must be same family but different in design
 

sfx2000

Part of the Furniture
From a HW perspective, the Synology AC1900 is in good company - the Broadcom AC1900 Wave 1 designs are getting along perhaps, but we're seeing excellent stability and performance across all vendors - so Synology made a good choice (again, I was a bit surprised they went down the Broadcom path given their history with Marvell)

Points of Reference:

Apple Airport Extreme AC
- this is basically an AC1900 class router/AP - consider that Apple doesn't do Wide Channels in 2.4GHz and no TurboQAM - this is a SW limitation, HW is fully capable of AC1900 performance - the BCM53019 is a minor bump up from the typical SoC's found on other vendors in the AC1900 class, performance on the chip is similar to BCM4709/BCM4708A, just different logic blocks enabled and slightly higher clock speed.
  • Broadcom BCM53019 - router SOC with gigabit switch - similar to BCM4709
  • Broadcom BCM4360KLMG - 2.4GHz and 5GHz WiFi (3*3:3 both bands)- Ac1300 in 5Ghz, N216 in 2.4GHz (see SW note above)
  • Hynix H5TC4G63AFR 4 Gb (512 MB) synchronous DDR3 SDRAM
  • Micron 25Q256A 32 MB serial flash
Asus RT-AC68U - this is probably the "gold standard" of AC1900 Broadcom designs, and the R7000 Netgear is very similar (R7000 has BCM4709A) - close enough that 3rd party builds can move across them...
  • Broadcom BCM4708A (4709 in 68P) - Router SoC with Gigabit switch
  • Broadcom BCM4360 - 2.4GHz and 5GHz WiFi (3*3:3 both bands, wide ch and turbo enabled for 2.4GHz)
  • 256MB RAM (DDR2?)
  • 128MB serial flash
Tenda AC15 - barebones AC1900 reference from Broadcom
  • Broadcom BCM4708A - router SoC with Gigabit switch
  • Broadcom BCM4360 - 2.4GHz and 5GHz (3*3:3, Turbo/Wide channels for N600 class in 2.4Ghz)
  • 256MB RAM (DDR2?)
  • 16MB NAND, perhaps in the BCM or combo NAND/DDR2
 
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