Unhappy with AiMesh? - Try traditional AP mode if wired backhaul available

[OzarkEdge]

This is what I believe to be true, but I have yet to try it. I won't be back home until Friday to try, but it sounds like Smokindog has tried this and verified it.

Agreed. Which means anyone reverting from AiMesh to APs can keep their guest WLAN on their router. That's what I was trying to anticipate.

OE

 

[bitsbytes]

I've got two 86u routers with wired backhaul and i tried both AP mode and Aimesh. roaming on most WiFi devises was a lot better when using Aimesh. guest wifi unfortunately is a security risk in both modes from what i understand and i read somewhere here that asus is working to fix it in Aimesh mode in future firmwares, i hope they do as soon as possible.

 

[maxbraketorque]

I've got two 86u routers with wired backhaul and i tried both AP mode and Aimesh. roaming on most WiFi devises was a lot better when using Aimesh. guest wifi unfortunately is a security risk in both modes from what i understand and i read somewhere here that asus is working to fix it in Aimesh mode in future firmwares, i hope they do as soon as possible.

Did you recently try AP mode, perhaps with the most recent Merlin firmware?

 

[Smokindog]

I've got two 86u routers with wired backhaul and i tried both AP mode and Aimesh. roaming on most WiFi devises was a lot better when using Aimesh. guest wifi unfortunately is a security risk in both modes from what i understand and i read somewhere here that asus is working to fix it in Aimesh mode in future firmwares, i hope they do as soon as possible.

Can you expand on how you defined "a lot better" for roaming and what tools you used and/or how you measured/quantified? What firmware versions?

I also see in your signature that you've got another 68 tied in. Can you diagram your setup? Did you choose the frequencies yourself or do you use "auto". Since AiMesh assigns the same frequencies to all nodes I'm wondering if there's not something else at play here.

 

[ligeza]

I've got two AC86U. I was using Aimesh, but on Ac86u node after few days 2,4GHz band stopped working until reboot router. I thought it is problem with hardware. I RMA router but with the new ac86u node I had still problem with not working 2,4 GHz band after 1-2 days (led was on and wasn't blinking). I tried different firmwares. About 3 weeks ago I change my setup to AP mode and since then I hadn't got problem with 2,4 band. I was surprised that roaming still works on my old laptop.

 

[maxbraketorque]

Can you provide screenshots of your configuration on both routers please?

My setup is geared towards using the 5 GHz bands for roaming. Router and AP settings for the 5 GHz band are listed below. 2.4 GHz and 5 GHz bands have different SSIDs. All mobile devices are keyed to the 5 GHz band. The 2.4 GHz radio is enabled on the primary AC86U and is used for IoT devices. The 2.4 GHz radio is disabled on the AP because its not needed.

Router (primary AC86U) General wifi settings:

Router (primary AC86U) Advanced wifi settings:

AP (satellite AC86U) General wifi settings:

AP (satellite AC86U) Advanced wifi settings:

 

[quadra2030]

I just checked in Apple documentation, macOS (as of now) doesn't use 802.11k/v/r extensions.. but in iOS/iPadOS they are all supported (at least on recent devices - iPhone 6s/iPad Air 2 and later).

 

[bitsbytes]

Can you expand on how you defined "a lot better" for roaming and what tools you used and/or how you measured/quantified? What firmware versions?

I also see in your signature that you've got another 68 tied in. Can you diagram your setup? Did you choose the frequencies yourself or do you use "auto". Since AiMesh assigns the same frequencies to all nodes I'm wondering if there's not something else at play here.

Didn’t update the signature properly but I’m currently on the last official firmware from asus 81351. When I say better I only base that on day to day usage with different portable devices in my home like android smartphones, a couple of ipads and two windows laptops. I’m at best a casual user who likes to tinker with his routers not a networking expert of any kind. I tried using AP mode setting separate ssids with different channels on each router and tinkered with roaming assistant settings for sometime but no matter what I tried most clients have trouble switching from one node to the other especially the windows laptops. Using Aimesh however always gave me better roaming performance even if the configs I used are the exact same ones I used in AP mode.


As for the 68u there’s nothing special there really. It’s located in the pool house a fair distance from the rest of the setup. It is setup as a second router connected with a cable to the mesh node on a different subnet for guests


my son’s nintedno switch won’t switch to a node in any mode no matter what I try. Anyone tried that thing on a mesh setup of any kind?

Did you recently try AP mode, perhaps with the most recent Merlin firmware?

It’s been a while, I think the last time I was using AP mode was on firmware 45717.

 

[maxbraketorque]

I just checked in Apple documentation, macOS (as of now) doesn't use 802.11k/v/r extensions.. but in iOS/iPadOS they are all supported (at least on recent devices - iPhone 6s/iPad Air 2 and later).

Interesting. For sure though, my MacBookPro is switching more readily than a year ago. I was on an earlier version of MacOS a year ago, so maybe that's the reason.

.... I tried using AP mode setting separate ssids with different channels on each router and tinkered with roaming assistant settings for sometime but no matter what I tried most clients have trouble switching from one node to the other especially the windows laptops. ...

Give all the APs (including the primary router) the same SSID for the band that you want to roam on. I suggest roaming only on the 5 GHz band because the range difference between the 2.4 GHz and 5 GHz band complicates setting up an AP or mesh network. For my setup, I only have 2.4 GHz enabled on the primary router and use that for IoT stuff. It has a different SSID than the 5 GHz band. All other mobile devices only know about the 5 GHz band, and that has the same SSID on the primary router and AP.

... It’s been a while, I think the last time I was using AP mode was on firmware 45717.

Would be interesting if you tried with the current firmware, but I'd understand if you didn't want to go through the hassle.

 

[quadra2030]

I'm using RT-AC86U (as a test) with 32799 firmware (it's the latest version with stable auto channel selection without frequent hopping), have about 15 Apple devices (Macbook Pros, iMacs, iPhones, iPads, AppleTV), most of them are wireless (just iMacs, AppleTV and one Mac mini server are wired) and 5 other devices (TV, cable STB, Sony PS4, etc.), Smart Connect is working fairly good (have 14 days uptime now), Macbooks and iPhones/iPads are mostly on 5 GHz band automatically.. but I don't have other APs/AiMesh.
Using only base functionality of RT-AC86U - 500 Mbit WAN connection, no Aiprotection or any Trend Micro features enabled, OpenVPN server running (with DDNS), no USB devices and every kind of sharing (SMB, DLNA, Time Machine, etc.) disabled - I have Mac server for that. Coverage is good (have circa 1200 sqft apartment) and I'm getting over 500 Mbit speed on 5 GHz WiFi (internet and AFP/SMB sharing from Mac), on MacBook Pro even higher (as it's 3x3 AC device).

 

[bitsbytes]

Interesting. For sure though, my MacBookPro is switching more readily than a year ago. I was on an earlier version of MacOS a year ago, so maybe that's the reason.



Give all the APs (including the primary router) the same SSID for the band that you want to roam on. I suggest roaming only on the 5 GHz band because the range difference between the 2.4 GHz and 5 GHz band complicates setting up an AP or mesh network. For my setup, I only have 2.4 GHz enabled on the primary router and use that for IoT stuff. It has a different SSID than the 5 GHz band. All other mobile devices only know about the 5 GHz band, and that has the same SSID on the primary router and AP.



Would be interesting if you tried with the current firmware, but I'd understand if you didn't want to go through the hassle.

i was already using the same ssid for the radios. when i said different i meant a separate ssid for 2.4 band and the 5Ghz band. as for trying AP mode on the current firmware......i can't promise you anything. i'm really happy with my setup right now, everything is working the way it should so i don't want to tinker with anything

 

[AndreiV]

I've had my two router setup at home operating in AP mode for about a year. When I first set it up, devices wouldn't readily switch from one AP to the next, so I had to use the Roaming Assist feature to encourage jumps. Merlin had mentioned in recent months that ASUS is now incorporating 802.11k and 802.11v protocols into their routers. These protocols provide information to wireless devices to allow them to more readily jump from one AP to the next. I had assumed that ASUS was only using these for AiMesh, but a few days ago, I found that these protocols are active for the traditional AP mode. Once I realized that, I disabled Roaming Assistant and moved several of my wireless devices through the house to see how well they transitioned between the two APs. My MacBookPro and Galaxy Note 8 both seamlessly transitioned back and forth between APs at the right time. My wife's W10 laptop wasn't transitioning well until I got into the advanced settings for the NIC where I adjusted the Roaming aggressiveness. Then it transitioned seamlessly as well.

AP mode has always been totally reliable, and now that wireless devices are seamlessly transitioning from one AP to the next due to ASUS's adoption of 802.11k and v, my suggestion is that if wired backhaul is available, there is no need to use AiMesh. Besides AP mode being rock-solid, another key advantage of AP mode is that its fully configurable. I have one AP set to UNI-I and the other set to UNI-III so there is no channel overlap. I have full control over all the advanced wireless setting. I can (and do) have separate 2.4 GHz and 5 GHz networks.

Yes, have to agree with all of that.

I replaced my AC3200 Tri-Band with an AX92-U twin pack , obtained for a lot less than a single AX88U .

Set everything up offline , positioned the router and AP then a quick transfer of power/ethernet cables and that was it, 5 minutes and working.

Ethernet backhaul means I have the full tri-band WiFi working.
SSID's are the same as used on the AC3200 and channels are different on router and AP.

Now have maximum possible speed on all devices in every room in the house and everyone is happy.

The only thing missing is Merlin ..........

 

[AndreiV]

I've read here that guest WLANs enabled on APs are not isolated. So, a security concern.

The guest networks can be set on router or AP and as clearly stated in the GUI access to local network is restricted. ( Possibly this is a new improvement over older models? )




If you have a lot of guest you can also set the AP as Isolated.

Set AP Isolated Yes / No

When this feature is enabled wireless clients and devices will not be able to communicate with each other.
You may want to utilize this feature if you have many guests that frequent your wireless network.

I tried a guest network and no device can access the router/AP or other devices.
Providing you don't use remote access you can also restrict access to the GUI using the controls in the Adminstration section.
Setting access control means that even if someone has your router name and password they can't login as the IP's are restrcted.

 

[OzarkEdge]

The guest networks can be set on router or AP and as clearly stated in the GUI access to local network is restricted. ( Possibly this is a new improvement over older models? )

Thanks for the news!

OE

 

[Yota]

but limits potential range for the guest network.

I have a way to extend the guest network to APs. https://www.snbforums.com/threads/expand-the-guest-network-to-two-merlin-routers.61231/


And how do you sure 802.11k/v is active? Do you know any tools that can check this? Because I want to check if my router has them enabled.

 

[RMerlin]

I have a way to extend the guest network to APs. https://www.snbforums.com/threads/expand-the-guest-network-to-two-merlin-routers.61231/


And how do you sure 802.11k/v is active? Do you know any tools that can check this? Because I want to check if my router has them enabled.

Winfi Lite (Windows 10) will report it APs have these enabled.

https://www.helge-keck.com/

This is IMHO the spiritual successor to Inssider as the go-to tool for people to use.

 

[Yota]

Winfi Lite (Windows 10) will report it APs have these enabled.

https://www.helge-keck.com/

This is IMHO the spiritual successor to Inssider as the go-to tool for people to use.

Great tool, thank you very much.

 

[SonicDeathMonkey]

I've had my two router setup at home operating in AP mode for about a year. When I first set it up, devices wouldn't readily switch from one AP to the next, so I had to use the Roaming Assist feature to encourage jumps. Merlin had mentioned in recent months that ASUS is now incorporating 802.11k and 802.11v protocols into their routers. These protocols provide information to wireless devices to allow them to more readily jump from one AP to the next. I had assumed that ASUS was only using these for AiMesh, but a few days ago, I found that these protocols are active for the traditional AP mode. Once I realized that, I disabled Roaming Assistant and moved several of my wireless devices through the house to see how well they transitioned between the two APs. My MacBookPro and Galaxy Note 8 both seamlessly transitioned back and forth between APs at the right time. My wife's W10 laptop wasn't transitioning well until I got into the advanced settings for the NIC where I adjusted the Roaming aggressiveness. Then it transitioned seamlessly as well.

AP mode has always been totally reliable, and now that wireless devices are seamlessly transitioning from one AP to the next due to ASUS's adoption of 802.11k and v, my suggestion is that if wired backhaul is available, there is no need to use AiMesh. Besides AP mode being rock-solid, another key advantage of AP mode is that its fully configurable. I have one AP set to UNI-I and the other set to UNI-III so there is no channel overlap. I have full control over all the advanced wireless setting. I can (and do) have separate 2.4 GHz and 5 GHz networks.

You sir, appear to be completely correct. The toughest test of mesh WiFi working properly for me has been whether or not it can seamlessly perform a handoff while I’m on a cellular-over-WiFi call on my iPhone (my cell reception is extremely poor and I rely on WiFi calling for my daily work). Whilst in the middle of a call I successfully handed off from what was my aimesh router (now just a router) to what was my aimesh node (now just an AP). As was recommended, I disabled roaming assist and assigned mutually exclusive control channels. It couldn’t have worked more beautifully. For the record I’m doing this with two new RT-AX58Us. As a side note these reboot 2-3 times faster than my old AC3100s which is nice if you like to tinker. Thanks so much for the tip. I was fighting aimesh on a few things. Cheers!

 

[Val D.]

The guest networks can be set on router or AP and as clearly stated in the GUI access to local network is restricted. ( Possibly this is a new improvement over older models? )

This message was there in every Asuswrt firmware, newer and older releases, the same in both Router and Access Point mode. The same WebUI page, no one bothered to make it any different in Access Point mode. Or no one wanted to make it any different. Unfortunately, marketing always wins:

a) customers are advised, but it can't be called a Guest Network anymore -> BAD
b) make it unavailable due to security reasons, but it's a missing feature now -> BAD
c) make it available, 98% of customers will never notice the difference -> OK

 

[Philibuster]

How does roaming go with WPA3-personal? In my experience, WPA3 breaks the "decent" roaming AiMesh provides. Anyone tried out WPA3 and AP mode out?