Upgrading to 2.5GbE - avoid Intel and go Realtek?

[tiddlywink]

Looking at updating PC's and they come with 2.5g and also looking at possibly creating an x86 (openwrt) router. Is the best advice to just completely avoid i225/i226 when possible? The solutions on the intel side seem half-baked and some report not solving anything.

i225 / i226 "i225 rev 4+"

1. NVM firmware update if you are lucky from OEM
2. disable pci-e ASPM or anything that increases power/c-states (absolute deal breaker)
3. Force 2.5G negotiation

RTL8125B

1. Early drivers peaked at <2Gbps, supposedly new drivers fixed it

For the router:

Quad-Port 2.5GBase-T PCIe Network Adapter RTL8125B 2500/1000/100Mbps PCI Express Gigabit Ethernet NIC Card RJ45 LAN Controller

INTRODUCTION Break the 1 Gigabit Log-jam that's bogging down your network. This PCIe to 4-Port 2.5G Ethernet Adapter Realtek RTL8125B Chipset offers a fast, easy and inexpensive way to manage your network with New 2.5Gb network adapters for your desktop, server, and laptop.It’s common today for...

shop.zimaboard.com

vs

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1596834-REG/qnap_qxg_2g4t_i225_quad_port_2_5gbe_4_speed.html

The i226 quad is more or less nixed for just having an active fan.


Did anyone dump intel and regret it? Realtek seems like the way to go for everything 2.5g with little to no issues.

 

[TheLostSwede]

I went Aquantia/Marvell a long time ago, but the Intel i225 chip on my motherboard is having issues, so I disabled it.
Realtek isn't flawless either, but the latest generation of chips seems to be better than the first gen.
Bought a Realtek USB dongle for my laptop and the first one was having some issues one way, but not the other when transferring files between my laptop and my NAS. Returned that dongle and got a different one that works fine.

As for the quad 2.5 Gbps cards, the same card goes for $55 on Amazon. They might also require bifurcation support to work.

https://www.amazon.com/IO-CREST-Ethernet-Interface-SI-PEX24077/dp/B09SS8GVHC/?tag=snbforums-20

These quad cards have an ASMedia PCIe bridge which means bifurcation isn't required.

https://www.amazon.com/Quad-Port-2-5GBase-T-RTL8125B-Ethernet-Controller/dp/B09V28PXMR/?tag=snbforums-20

https://www.amazon.com/Network-Adapter-RTL8125BG-Controller-Ethernet/dp/B0CCXZ8T89/?tag=snbforums-20

That QNAP card might only work in a QNAP NAS, as they tend to have custom firmwares on their add-in cards.

Also, Realtek has a new 5 Gbps chip that's out now, doesn't cost a lot more than the 2.5 Gbps cards.
Here's an example. Not saying to buy that brand though.

https://www.amazon.com/WAVLINK-Network-Gigabit-Ethernet-Adapter/dp/B0D2HBCYC5/?tag=snbforums-20

For some reason, the M.2 cards with that chip is a lot cheaper.

https://www.amazon.com/Networking-RTL8126-Gigabits-Ethernets-5000Mbps/dp/B0D8NYVWJC/?tag=snbforums-20

 

[Tech Junky]

bifurcation

For a NIC? SMH

Bifurcation is for other stuff like splitting a slot into 4 drives or ....

A NIC isn't smart enough to split lanes based on the slot it just downgrades to slower speeds if the slot doesn't support full bandwidth. And there are dubious cards out there with dual/quad ports that just split the bandwidth and don't offer full speed if more than one port is in use.

I used the QNAP 5G4T for years w/o any issues though and got full speed from all 4 ports. I've since moved on to just using a TB cable to get 1.5GB/s instead between my server / laptop instead.. Cheaper and faster than a 10GE dongle.

 

[TheLostSwede]

For a NIC? SMH

Bifurcation is for other stuff like splitting a slot into 4 drives or ....

A NIC isn't smart enough to split lanes based on the slot it just downgrades to slower speeds if the slot doesn't support full bandwidth. And there are dubious cards out there with dual/quad ports that just split the bandwidth and don't offer full speed if more than one port is in use.

I used the QNAP 5G4T for years w/o any issues though and got full speed from all 4 ports. I've since moved on to just using a TB cable to get 1.5GB/s instead between my server / laptop instead.. Cheaper and faster than a 10GE dongle.

Clearly you do not understand what bifurcation is.

If the system supports bifurcation, the slot allows multiple PCIe devices (x1 in this instance) to each get allocated one or more lanes worth of PCIe bandwidth, without the need of a bridge chip. This is way to make cheaper add-in cards that can have multiple PCIe devices on them.
It has nothing to do with smarts on the add-in card, quite the opposite if anything.

The issue is that systems that don't support bifurcation (Intel mostly), then you only get the first device showing up and the rest of the devices on the add-in card are non functional.

Add a bridge chip and that handles the PCIe communication with the host CPU, and you can add four or more devices that will work with any system, but it adds quite a bit of cost.

I have no idea what you're talking about downgrading speeds though.

QNAP uses bridge chips.

 

[Tech Junky]

bifurcation

Is the ability to split the bandwidth of a x16 slot down to x4/x4/x4/x4

Cheap boards auto split though based on the number of cards put into the system. Typically x16 goes x8/x8 but some cheap options drop to x4 or lower. This auto splitting isn't bifurcation it's non-sense from cheap manufactures.

Your MOBO isn't bifurcating it's just pushing the bandwidth through the chipset instead of the CPU lanes which is just an aggregate of bandwidth x8 DMI or x4 on the AMD side.

Add a bridge chip

PLX switch is what you're thinking and when you want multiple devices sharing a slot i.e. multiple drives and you have Intel consumer gear this is where you decide whether it's worth the costs or just switch to AMD to unlock the bifurcation option or up your game to server grade HW.

I have no idea what you're talking about downgrading speeds though.

If you stick a x4/Gen4 card into an x1 slot it will max out at that speed instead of operating at full speed. For instance when I have all of my slots in use and check the boot logs I'll see messages regarding the speed / bandwidth... such as "card capable of 32gbps but only running at 16gbps" or other cards reporting mac bandwidth of 8gbps due to the limit of lanes or being on the chipset vs cpu. If you're hitting the bottleneck of the DMOI/chipset then you'll get downgraded speeds if you're maxing things out.

 

[TheLostSwede]

Is the ability to split the bandwidth of a x16 slot down to x4/x4/x4/x4

Cheap boards auto split though based on the number of cards put into the system. Typically x16 goes x8/x8 but some cheap options drop to x4 or lower. This auto splitting isn't bifurcation it's non-sense from cheap manufactures.

Your MOBO isn't bifurcating it's just pushing the bandwidth through the chipset instead of the CPU lanes which is just an aggregate of bandwidth x8 DMI or x4 on the AMD side.

Sorry, what? No consumer motherboard does anything less than x8/x4/x4 for starters.
However, bifurcation isn't limited to splitting the bandwidth between slots, it can also be split between multiple PCIe chips on an add-in card. If this isn't supported by the platform, you only get access to the first PCIe device on such an add-in card.

PLX switch is what you're thinking and when you want multiple devices sharing a slot i.e. multiple drives and you have Intel consumer gear this is where you decide whether it's worth the costs or just switch to AMD to unlock the bifurcation option or up your game to server grade HW.

PLX hasn't existed for close to a decade now, so no, I'm not thinking about them. However, ASMedia, Microchip, Broadcom (who bought PLX) and others make them. This is one way of doing it, but as I said, it adds cost and it's not a must on modern platforms, but for backwards and Intel consumer platform compatibility, it's the safer route to go down.

If you stick a x4/Gen4 card into an x1 slot it will max out at that speed instead of operating at full speed. For instance when I have all of my slots in use and check the boot logs I'll see messages regarding the speed / bandwidth... such as "card capable of 32gbps but only running at 16gbps" or other cards reporting mac bandwidth of 8gbps due to the limit of lanes or being on the chipset vs cpu. If you're hitting the bottleneck of the DMOI/chipset then you'll get downgraded speeds if you're maxing things out.

First of all, you can generally not put a x4 card in a x1 slot, but ok...
And that's not how PCIe works. The only reason you'd get "downgraded" speeds, is if you either put a PCIe 3.0 cards in a PCIe 4.0 slot, as it can't operate at PCIe 4.0, or if you put at PCIe 4.0 card in a PCIe 3.0 slot, since the slot doesn't support the faster speed of the card. If the slot and card are the same version of PCIe, you never get "downgraded" speeds. However, loads of motherboards have slots of multiple PCIe versions, which might be why you're confused, as you added a faster device to a slower slot on your motherboard.

Also, we're way off topic here now.

 

[Tech Junky]

No consumer motherboard does anything less than x8/x4/x4 for starters.

Yes they do if you pick the right one. My ASRock board does x4/x4/x4/x4 though it's not listed in the specs or manual. It does show up in the UEFI.

If you pick a cheap board though they do tend to follow your logic. If you look at the specs on most boards and see if you use the second slot it will be allocated x8/x8 or in some instances odd split ilke x8/x4 or even down to x2 with some. Maybe cheap isn't the right word since most of them were more $$$ than my selection.

Anyway.... PLX is a name brand I suppose but, it's a PCIE HW switch mechanism in use for Intel cards whereas the AMD side are just electrical splitters / dumb adapters relying on the UEFI commands to split the lanes. There's a card though that comes to mind that is a dumb NIC that has 2*2.5GE ports that just simply shares the controller on the card. As to the QNAP... it's a port/lane configuration and not switched when you look at the HW output in LSPCI / dmesg regarding allocations.

The whole point here though is read the details of any card you're thinking about buying to make sure it's not going to give you subpar results due to cheap components being used. Make sure you test it in your own environment to make sure you get what you're paying for before the return window closes. There's a lot of crap being sold under the guise of being legit until you go to use it and find it's not what they said it was. Looking at the controller specs though should clear things up.

 

[RMerlin]

but the Intel i225 chip on my motherboard is having issues, so I disabled it.

Same for me. When I upgraded my network to 2.5 Gbps, it kept randomly disconnecting and reconnecting.

Some older driver versions seemed more stable, except that they had an abnormally high number of retransmitted packets, so that wasn't really an improvement.

So likewise, I disabled it, and installed a TP-Link NIC that's Realtek based. Been flawless since then.

Another person for whom I built a PC - I never could get his Intel NIC to connect at all to his network (or very randomly). Ended up having him buy a USB dongle to solve the issue (since he lives outside of town, so I couldn't install an internal NIC for him).

I don't know what's the situation for Linux/BSD, but for the time being, I recommend avoiding Intel NICs if you are aiming at 2.5 Gbps (so, i225-V and i226-V).

 

[RMinNJ]

How very sad. For linux 1Gbit the Intel NICs usually work great.

 

[sfx2000]

How very sad. For linux 1Gbit the Intel NICs usually work great.

The intel 2.5G chips, as mentioned, have been problematic for some...

Not sure why, as their HW solutions are usually reliable - perhaps it's a focus on other chipsets, for example, the 10/40/100GBe - as this is where the money is...

It doesn't help that there are a lot of counterfeit boards out there - get one from a reliable vendor like CDW, and at least it's not a fake...

 

[coxhaus]

I think 10gig is going to be a better solution so I will be skipping 2.5g NICs.

You may have trouble running 10gig in a wireless router right now but I run separate small business networking components so heat and speed is not a problem for me. The heat and small CPUs in wireless routers will not work with 10gig through put.

 

[anotherengineer]

I went Aquantia/Marvell a long time ago, but the Intel i225 chip on my motherboard is having issues, so I disabled it.
Realtek isn't flawless either, but the latest generation of chips seems to be better than the first gen.

Same, I think I got the TP-link one, which supports FW upgrading from Marvell. So far it seems fine, however it's only doing 1Gb since that's my network at the moment.

What I have noticed though is Marvell hasn't or doesn't support driver updates as frequently as intel.

 

[coxhaus]

The intel 2.5G chips, as mentioned, have been problematic for some...

Not sure why, as their HW solutions are usually reliable - perhaps it's a focus on other chipsets, for example, the 10/40/100GBe - as this is where the money is...

It doesn't help that there are a lot of counterfeit boards out there - get one from a reliable vendor like CDW, and at least it's not a fake...

I am looking on CDW and I don't see any Intel 40gig. I see 10gig, 25gig, 50gig and 100gig.

I do know 40gig existed in the past maybe now but it looks as if Intel dropped support or it was another company.

 

[sfx2000]

I am looking on CDW and I don't see any Intel 40gig. I see 10gig, 25gig, 50gig and 100gig.

Look for the XL710 - it's their 10/40 adapter..

Intel® Ethernet Converged Network Adapter XL710 10/40 GbE

Product brief: Address agile data center needs; Intel® Ethernet Converged Network Adapter XL710 offers features for server and network virtualization.

www.intel.com

 

[coxhaus]

Look for the XL710 - it's their 10/40 adapter..

Intel® Ethernet Converged Network Adapter XL710 10/40 GbE

Product brief: Address agile data center needs; Intel® Ethernet Converged Network Adapter XL710 offers features for server and network virtualization.

www.intel.com

No NIC. It is a plug in card.

 

[TheLostSwede]

Same, I think I got the TP-link one, which supports FW upgrading from Marvell. So far it seems fine, however it's only doing 1Gb since that's my network at the moment.

What I have noticed though is Marvell hasn't or doesn't support driver updates as frequently as intel.
View attachment 60727

The AQC-107 was announced at the end of 2016, if they haven't gotten to a stage of stable drives seven years later, it wouldn't have become as popular of a solution as it has. There were some compatibility issues early on with AMD's Ryzen platform, but Aquantia fixed that within a few weeks. There has been several firmware updates over the years and regular enough driver updates, but you always get to a point where there isn't anything left to fix when it comes to drivers.

Marvell doesn't normally offer direct to consumer drivers, as "we" are not their customers, but as Aquantia had sold products direct to consumers, Marvell was forced to offer public drivers directly.

Are you having any issues with your card that makes you want new drivers?

 

[Tech Junky]

Marvell hasn't or doesn't support driver updates as frequently as intel.

Because their stuff works. I've been using a 5ge card for years and the only time it didn't work was when Linux rolled a new kernel version that missed the driver being included. New doesn't always mean better or working. Remember - if it ain't broke don't fix it?

 

[sfx2000]

No NIC. It is a plug in card.

No, it's a Network Interface Card...

Amazon.com

 

[anotherengineer]

The AQC-107 was announced at the end of 2016, if they haven't gotten to a stage of stable drives seven years later, it wouldn't have become as popular of a solution as it has. There were some compatibility issues early on with AMD's Ryzen platform, but Aquantia fixed that within a few weeks. There has been several firmware updates over the years and regular enough driver updates, but you always get to a point where there isn't anything left to fix when it comes to drivers.

Marvell doesn't normally offer direct to consumer drivers, as "we" are not their customers, but as Aquantia had sold products direct to consumers, Marvell was forced to offer public drivers directly.

Are you having any issues with your card that makes you want new drivers?

Hard to recall, I think I was with the latest one, I think I rolled back to 2.2.2.0.

I do have 1Gb DL ISP, but get 700Mbps max. Could be playing with the NIC settings when troubleshooting before changing out the driver.
as in these settings. (Handle on TPU is Mechtech)

 

[coxhaus]

No, it's a Network Interface Card...

Amazon.com

Well Amazon has it but not CDW. I am not sure why you would want 40gig when you can buy 50 and 100gig for around the same money. I would think only if you are locked in to old tec.