Equipment for FTTH

[Sparxxx]

Hi guys!

As I will be getting my first FTTH connection in a couple of weeks I wanted to ask about the equipment I will need.
Please bare with me as this is my first time and don't have experience with FTTH.

The connection would be a dedicated 1gbps UP/DOWN line and everything is installed in the house. All that is left is for them to activate the contract and me getting the equipment.

I will be getting a /48 IPv6 Address.

For the moment I have a Netgear R6300 Router.
What I will buy is a media converter (don't want an all in one like the MikroTik as it does not make full use of the bandwidth).

My questions:
- which Media Converter will be the best (I guess all are the same)
- which router should I buy to get the most out of the 1Gbps (was thinking of the Ubiquiti ER3 Lite but to set it up I will have to spend a lot of time with documentation)
- a separate router/AP for the wireless

OR should I just get a good consumer router (Asus, Netgear etc.) and connect it to the media converter?

Thanks!

 

[thiggins]

Isn't your ISP going to provide a modem of some sort?

Yes, the Ubiquiti Routers should handle the full Gigabit. Ubiquiti has improved the web interface so that you can do basic setup without resorting to command line. But you should check the EdgeMAX forums, to see what the real story is now.

If you opt for a wireless router, select one of the products in the Router Charts with > 900 Mbps. The NETGEAR R7000 is top-ranked for Routing throughput. I would focus on AC1900 class routers. The AC2350 and AC3200 routers don't provide any practical advantage and are much more expensive.

I agree with the plan to use separate AP or converted router for wireless. If you use a consumer wireless router, this will let the CPU power be dedicated to routing.

 

[Sparxxx]

Hi!

thanks for your reply.

The ISP does provide 2 differenty models:
- MikroTik RB2011UiAS-2HnD-IN
- MikroTik RB2011UiAS-RM

One has WLAN, the other not but it's huge.

The problem is you won't get more than 600mbps with them... no idea why.
With the Ubiquiti my freind reached the full 1Gbps line.
Even with an Asus AC68U connected directly to the media converted speeds of 900+mbps were achieved.

I would go for the Ubiquiti but never used one... might need to do some research on how to set everything up (ubiquiti + Netgear R6300 as AP).

The problem is the provider is using DHCPv6-PD.
If the R7000 supports DHCPv6-PD than I might go for that one.

 

[Trip]

Hi Sparxxx,

Congrats on the 1Gb/1Gb line... makes us who are still stuck with DSL/cable/etc. quite envious. Just curious, whereabouts are you and who is your ISP?

On the MikroTik gear, you'll most need a higher-end model than what's been provided by your ISP -- at least an RB1100AHx2, or the base cloud-core model, the CCR1009-8G-1S, to route at gigabit speeds and beyond. Quite frankly it makes me wonder why your ISP doesn't give you one of those, or an ERL, straight away...? If you care to read more into why, SNB user "System Error Message" delves a bit into the performance differences as you jump from architecture to architecture (MIPS, ARM, PPC/x86, TILERA, etc.) in this post.

On the EdgeRouter, the 1.6+ firmware offers access to the full config "tree" right from within the web interface, so it's not as much of a bear to setup as many make it out to be.

You could certainly opt for a MIPS or ARM-based consumer model just for gateway and simple NAT duties, and still route at near-gigabit speeds, as long as you don't need to do a heavy amount of packet maneuvering and/or encryption/decryption (ie. VPN) on the box itself. For that stuff, you're probably best offloading to a dedicated x86 Intel box anyways.

Do let us know what you pick and how it works out.

 

[Sparxxx]

Hi Trip!

Thanks for your reply.

I live in Switzerland and the provider is Fiber7. Good price too.

I won't do a heavy duty on the NAT or VPN, mainly downloads from an FTP Server (a lot of big DB downloads etc).

For the moment I'm still thinking what to get... a pro level router (200-300$) and use my Netgear R6300 as AP or get a new R7000 and use that as main router.

I might get better wan-lan speeds with a good pro level router without wifi.

 

[Trip]

No problem. The RB2011AHx2's are kind of hard to get right now; I don't know how the sales channels look in Europe, but I know Flytec has them on eBay USA right now for $320. ERLs will be about 1/3 the price at various retailers, ER-PoEs about 1/2. Another slightly more turn-key option to consider might be ZyXel's SBG3500-N gateway. I believe it's available in Switzerland (it isn't yet in the States, unfortunately). GL!

 

[hsheriff]

Someone went through the exact same thing as you and settled on the Edegrouter. He even posted step by step instructions on how to configure it here: http://michael.stapelberg.de/Artikel/fiber7_ubnt_erlite/

 

[System Error Message]

in europe you can get mikrotik from amazon shipped from latvia (i assume their main supplier) however it is possible to get cheaper and faster delivery if you search for other suppliers.

Some routerboards have SFP/SFP+ so you can skip out needing a modem if you get the right SFP module. The RB1100AHx2 doesnt have SFP. The RB2011 is 5 years old.

The edgerouters use a more complex MIPS have better hardware packet acceleration which is why the edgerouter is faster than broadcom ARM and still capable of QoS at the same time. There isnt yet a consumer router with 2Gb/s NAT capacity.

http://forum.mikrotik.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=84475 shows the performance of the CCR1009. It is capable of wirespeed NAT if you use the ports directly connected to CPU instead of the switched ports and some have SFP and SFP+. It is fast enough to do both NAT and VPN for the speed of your connection though for multi gigabit VPN on the CCR you will need to bind multiple connections together in routerOS. Even if using switched ports it does NAT in multiple Gb/s.

Both TILE and PPC are second in VPN performance compared to x86. It just depends on how many watts you can afford to keep running. Mikrotik isnt slow, you're just either looking at old articles or old products which they annoyingly still sell. I dare you to look at the link and tell me that the CCR1009 which has SFP is too slow to utilise your internet connection or in being used as both router and switch . If you look at the bridging capacity of the CCR you will be shocked. My CCR maxes out all ports on 4M packets but can route 41M packets.

I forgot to mention that routerOS does well in ipv6 too and that many things in the /IP catogary such as DNS is used by IPV6 and supports IPV6 naturally. Seriously stop looking at old mikrotik products. I just dont get why so many people are against mikrotik. The newer version of the all in 1 routerboards are the RB 9xx series. Some of them look like they have better MIPS CPUs than the RB2011 which has been outdated for a while.

 

[Sparxxx]

@hsheriff. Yep, I saw this also before posting here.
this is why I am still thinking as with "pro" routers like Mikrotik, Ubiquiti, Cisco I fear the know how has to be there.

I am good with consumer routers, 3rd party flashing etc but never used a "pro" router

Also I don't want a HUGE box in my house.

 

[System Error Message]

The RB9xx are actually very small and for what i use routerOS for i find them easier to configure compared to consumer routers. However if you dont have the skill for them you can always get consumer though you may not be able to utilise full bandwidth. Consumer routes may have rating up to 1.5Gb/s but that requires NAT acceleration which doesnt let you use QoS for broadcom ARM. Without NAT acceleration they only perform around 500Mb/s.

There is a live demo for mikrotik. Cisco is usually a good choice when they're affordable.

Edgerouter Lite is very small with only 3 ports and hardware NAT without the limitation broadcom ARM has.

 

[Sparxxx]

thanks again.
I might go for a "pro" router but I would like to see the OS's on them (Cisco, Mikrotik and Ubiquiti).
Again I won't be doing a lot of stuff with it. I just want to have a stable router, good download speeds and a good easy to configure firewall.

Is there a demo version of the software for them to test out?

 

[System Error Message]

the demo version for mikrotik is demo.mt.lv. Compared to ubiquiti mikrotik has more features but both are most likely stable, reliable good routers. Mikrotik has their own GUI utility called winbox that can access the routerboard via MAC address other than using web. This helps to prevent disconnects while adjusting settings.

 

[Sparxxx]

I might have narrowed my decision to the following routers:

Cisco RV180
Cisco RV320 (don't need dual WAN but it has dual core)
Ubiquiti ER3-Lite
Netgear R7000 (has very good routing performance wan-lan but not sure about the Ipv6 implementation)

 

[System Error Message]

I just checked the specs of the cisco RV320 and its a lot worse than the mikrotik CCR1009. The CCR1009 may be more expansive but it is cheaper in price/performance and the RV320 doesnt have configurable firewall and there seem to be many complaints about the RV series. All routerboards let you configure which ports you want to use for WAN and are very flexible. They also turn out to be very reliable.

Mikrotik routerOS is the same for every device or even x86 boxes and have configurable firewalls. The other alternative for configurable firewall is pfsense.

All the devices you listed except for the edgerouter are consumer grade. RouterOS itself has features for enterprises but every mikrotik device uses the same routerOS (only compiled for different archs). Compared to even the RB1100AHx2 the cisco RV is a lot slower in VPN. Each TILE core does at least 300Mb/s of VPN and the PPC cores do about 500Mb/s each. RouterOS doesnt have the limitations in number of connections/tunnels like the cisco RV has.

The cisco RV series you listed is even worse compared to the edgerouter you listed. Instead of cisco RV consider the RB1100AHx2 or a CCR1009.

RouterOS ipv6 works well, i dont get why you decided not to consider it not to mention that it has ipv6 firewall, ipv6 NAT capable and it has neighbour discovery for both ipv4 and ipv6 which i find very useful not to mention a PPP scanner that lets me connect to multiple ISP gateways simultaneously. A lot of features in /IP also work with ipv6. With RouterOS you get L2 to L7 firewall which the cisco RV doesnt give you.

dual core doesnt even matter but i will list a few specs
The RB850gx2 has dual core PPC at 500Mhz, 512MB of ram
the RB1100AHx2 has dual core PPC at 1066mhz, 1GB of ram (upgrade-able). 2Gb/s of NAT (approx)
The CCR1009 has 9 TILE cores at 1.2Ghz (facebook uses TILE in their servers as PCIe cards to accelerate networking and run part of their web server on it). 1-2GB RAM (upgrade-able), wirespeed NAT on CPU ports (thats many Gb/s of performance).

The edgerouter lite has a complex dual core MIPS with packet acceleration at 600Mhz and does wirespeed NAT
The netgear has a broadcom ARM dual core with packet acceleration at 1.2Ghz but cannot do QoS with acceleration, does up to 1.5Gb/s NAT with acceleration, 500Mb/s without acceleration.

Even the newer MIPS based mikrotik routerboards are faster than the netgear if you need QoS.

 

[Sparxxx]

Thanks a lot!
I did a little bit more research. Forget about the Cisco . I kinda liked the interface.

For now:
Ubiquiti ER3-Lite
Netgear R7000

Now I'll do some research on the on both Mikrotik you recommended.
The problem is they are to big and have fans. PRobably also use a lot of electricity .

My household does not need soemthing like this.

I don't do VPN or special routing. Maybe just some open ports for RDP and that's it.
90% it's browsing, gaming and daily FTP downloads of 100-200GB.

 

[System Error Message]

It is true that they have fans and can be noisy but some users have changed their fans for silent ones and noticed they work normally with silent fans. They dont use that many watts though, about 20W. Their power consumptions are listed on their spec page. Mine is much higher end and uses 60W for 36 TILE cores, it does get noisy if my room is really warm and the rack they're in doesnt have airflow. The fan speeds change based on temperature.

They have fans because they're made to be used at full capacity 24/7 so the fans keep the CPU cool.

Still it all depends on how you want to set things up, The cheapest CCR has SFP which supports fibre optics if there is a compatible SFP module which means you wont need a media converter but the RB1100AHx2 and CCR1009 are both more expansive than the edgerouter lite although they give a lot more ports and resources. All CCRs should have touchscreens but be sure to check the picture first.

CCR can also see power consumption and uses less power when idle (mine is usually 0% CPU usage on average and uses 45W)

The newer MIPS based routerboards uses even less power but i am not sure if they do gigabit NAT. They are still faster than the older ones. QoS is very useful if in a multi user or multi application environment. QoS in routerOS is much better than the ones in consumer routers and much easier to implement with the devices supporting thousands of queues easily.

There is a new 9xx series which is all in one, SFP, integrated AC wireless, 2 or 3 gigabit ports, miniPCIe, 12W but if you have many devices you can get a green gigabit switch that uses 3W and can use POE. Both the RB1100AHx2 and CCR1009 can be powered by POE but the CCR1036 i use cant. Not sure if the 720Mhz MIPS can do NAT at 1Gb/s but it is certaintly faster than netgear at NAT when using QoS. Unlike the CCR i dont see other routers using much less power when idle.
Edit:
CCR1009 - 35W full load, prob 25W idle
CCR1036 - 60W full load, 45W idle.

The RB1100AHx2 costs $349 at launch
The CCR1009-8g-1s has no touchscreen and costs $425 at launch
The CCR1009-8g-1s-1s+ has touchscreen and dual PSU and costs $495 at launch
http://routerboard.com/RB922UAGS-5HPacD costs $99, enclosure $15 and can use POE or you can buy the PSU (external hard drive PSUs do work too) but this may not reach 1 Gb/s NAT.
routerboards dont depreciate in value as quickly as consumer hardware but since they are more than a year old they should be cheaper than at launch. The only way to find is to use the supplier list on their page or by using google. Some suppliers may have it cheaper than listed.

 

[Sparxxx]

Well, thanks a lot for your input.

Considering that I already bought the media converter and SFP I think the prices are to high for what I need and might be overkill anyway.

So far the Ubiquiti ERLITE-3 looks best buy but I need to do some more research on the setup and OS on it.

I might pull the trigger on one the coming days for 99euro. Not that much of a loss if I'm not happy.

 

[System Error Message]

If you dont need VPN the edgerouter lite is fast enough and i believe someone has shown you a link for setting it up. Both mikrotik and ubiquiti have similar interfaces but mikrotik has more features.

Now all you need is a wireless AP. The all in 1 routerboard i listed will suffice but there is a cheaper one with same wireless specs with no SFP but costs $72. It would help you save costs and power use compared to using a dual core ARM AC wireless consumer router. Routerboards are a lot more reliable but consumer routers can be too if you install 3rd party firmware. I would not recommend DD-WRT as a firmware choice. The only issue with 3rd party firmware is that you get less performance.

 

[huotg01]

If you dont need VPN the edgerouter lite is fast enough and i believe someone has shown you a link for setting it up. Both mikrotik and ubiquiti have similar interfaces but mikrotik has more features.

Now all you need is a wireless AP. The all in 1 routerboard i listed will suffice but there is a cheaper one with same wireless specs with no SFP but costs $72. It would help you save costs and power use compared to using a dual core ARM AC wireless consumer router. Routerboards are a lot more reliable but consumer routers can be too if you install 3rd party firmware. I would not recommend DD-WRT as a firmware choice. The only issue with 3rd party firmware is that you get less performance.

4 assertions in less of 2 lines:

• Routerboards are a lot more reliable
• consumer routers can be too if you install 3rd party firmware
• I would not recommend DD-WRT as a firmware choice
• The only issue with 3rd party firmware is that you get less performance

Is it like the Tables of the Law received by Moise, or could your faithful readers expect some explanations about these divine-given-truths ?

 

[System Error Message]

well ok than, dont believe me first without reading around the forums and do all that painstaking research on the web and also device testing too. I am also speaking from experience that i havent had good experience with consumer routers. However with the points you gathered i didnt say that they werent an option, i just suggested to consider other firmwares when using them.

I'll just rephrase myself better than. I suggest this wireless AP http://routerboard.com/RB911G-5HPacD for indoor use or you can use other APs from other brands ranging from tp-link, netgear, linksys or asus. Dlink doesnt do well in that area from experience but it may be different for others. Getting an AP only is cheaper than a full wireless router but it also depends on your needs (USB?) and features.

4 or more AC stream APs or routers can be used for wireless bridging if you would ever do it. One thing that routerboards with miniPCIe slots can do is create multi stream wireless. I suggested routerboards because they are much more flexible in what you can do with them but consumer routers/APs with 3rd party firmware can also become mini linux servers.

If you are a beginner than i suggest avoiding DD-WRT because they're more hackish and their packages tend to be less stable than openwrt or tomato firmware. openwrt has a nice table of compatible devices they support.