Hoping for advice on a small home network...

[turnstyle]

Opinion: Two-bay NAS is best. I use one. Each drive is a separate volume (i.e., not RAID). One has a selective backup of the main drive's folders. Each drive is thus independent. Most Mac users I read about here use Time Machine with the NAS as the destination. I use my NAS's "Time Backup" to do versioned backup of selected shared folders.

And no matter the NAS, a big fat USB3 drive (or eSATA depending on the NAS) is essential, to make that backup kept hidden/offsite.

I and many of us here recommend only Synology and QNAP for many reasons.

Thanks!

fwiw, I don't actually use Time Machine -- what I like to do is simply mirror the folders I care about -- I don't even care about versioned backups.

I don't quite see the point of a two-bay NAS -- but I certainly DO see the point of the data being on more than one drive.

For example, the idea of a single bay NAS -- and then then backing that up to an external drive -- that makes perfect sense -- but why would I need a multi-bay NAS? (Assuming, say, 2-4TB is plenty for my needs.)

Thanks again to all, -Scott

 

[sfx2000]

Yes -- that Addonics device strikes me as "the right general idea" -- though the reviews seem pretty sketchy -- I'd love to see something like that from Synology or QNAP.

The Linksys NSLU2 was a similar concept from a long time ago...

 

[turnstyle]

The Linksys NSLU2 was a similar concept from a long time ago...

Yep, that seems like the solution I've been looking for (apart from the fact that it has ancient specs) -- I guess nobody wants that sort of setup? It seems so logical to me: one box that connects to the network as well as to external drives, no need for internal, but I guess nobody wants that, oh well!

So maybe now I'm belatedly coming back to Tim's suggestion from earlier -- so the "best" solution is to get a NAS, and attach a USB drive to it, and back the NAS up to the USB? (And, perhaps, take that USB off-site, and swap another in, and periodically re-swap?)

 

[turnstyle]

No routers will mirror or back up drive to drive.

What you need is a NAS. A two-bay model in RAID1 would mirror data drive-to-drive on the fly. But, keep in mind both copies of your backup data living on one physical device is not good practice. If something happens to the NAS, all your data is gone.

I'd get a cheap single-drive model and back up data to it. Then you can schedule backup of the NAS folder(s) to a USB drive attached to the NAS. You can then remove the USB drive and store it offsite or in a firebox for added data security.

You can get a QNAP TS-112P with USB 2.0, 3.0 and eSATA ports for $125 and add your own drive. A Synology DS115J is cheaper at $100, but has only USB 2.0 ports. There's also the WD MyCloud with 2TB of storage and USB 3.0 port for $130.

Thanks to this conversation I'm finally seeing how a simple NAS with an external USB drive for backup is likely the most sensible solution, given what's on the market now (meaning: I personally wish there was a good drive-less NAS I could get, but there isn't).

If anybody is willing to chime in, I'd certainly appreciate it: would I be shooting myself in the foot by getting a single bay NAS? Right now I have 2TB of storage, of which I use 1TB -- the main growth in storage comes from photos (amateur photographer, shoots RAW), and assuming 2-3GB of photos per week (which is certainly an overestimate) it would take me years to fill that remaining 1TB.

Meaning: I think a 2TB NAS is probably fine -- and 3-4TB is certainly enough for me (unless I wind up getting into video or something like that).

I see so many people say something like "I fail to see the point of a one-drive NAS" -- I'm just hoping for a "reality check" that I wouldn't be making a silly mistake to get a one-bay NAS...

Thanks again to all! -Scott

 

[sfx2000]

If anybody is willing to chime in, I'd certainly appreciate it: would I be shooting myself in the foot by getting a single bay NAS? Right now I have 2TB of storage, of which I use 1TB -- the main growth in storage comes from photos (amateur photographer, shoots RAW), and assuming 2-3GB of photos per week (which is certainly an overestimate) it would take me years to fill that remaining 1TB.

Meaning: I think a 2TB NAS is probably fine -- and 3-4TB is certainly enough for me (unless I wind up getting into video or something like that).

A single bay NAS is fine - but a two bay might be a better choice in the longer term - don't need to populate both bays at first... the cost delta isn't much compared to having to upgrade/replace later on.

Take your storage estimate - and then double it, as over time you'll see how useful a NAS box is, and you'll be using it more.

Don't forget to include the NAS in your overall backup plan - it needs to be backed up just like your other devices.

 

[turnstyle]

A single bay NAS is fine - but a two bay might be a better choice in the longer term - don't need to populate both bays at first... the cost delta isn't much compared to having to upgrade/replace later on.

Take your storage estimate - and then double it, as over time you'll see how useful a NAS box is, and you'll be using it more.

Don't forget to include the NAS in your overall backup plan - it needs to be backed up just like your other devices.

Thanks, yes, my thinking is to get a NAS and back it up to an external USB -- and, ideally, I will use two external USB drives, such that I could keep one off-site (and then periodically cycle between the two).

I'm only using 1TB now, and I have two 2TB USB drives on-hand, so I might start off with 2TB in the NAS, and use the USB drives that I have. It also looks like I can get at least 6TB drives for a single-bay NAS, and that seems like plenty for me looking ahead (unless, say, I wind up getting into video).

So let's say I get a 2TB drive to start, and I back it up to a 2TB USB drive -- if I later decide I need 6TB, I assume it should be pretty easy to swap out the 2TB drive from the NAS, swap in the 6TB drive, restore to the 6TB drive from the USB drive, and then get a 6TB USB drive and back up to that?

Here I'm mostly trying to make sure I would't actually need 2 bays for something... but it seems mostly like I need 2 bays if I want more than 6TB of data?

 

[sfx2000]

So let's say I get a 2TB drive to start, and I back it up to a 2TB USB drive -- if I later decide I need 6TB, I assume it should be pretty easy to swap out the 2TB drive from the NAS, swap in the 6TB drive, restore to the 6TB drive from the USB drive, and then get a 6TB USB drive and back up to that?

Well, if you get a two-bay NAS, just add the 6TB - don't need to run RAID, just add it to the pool as another drive

 

[turnstyle]

Ok, so it seems it's "pretty easy" to upgrade a drive in a single-bay NAS, so I think the "sensible" solution is along the lines of Tim's earlier suggestion -- a single-bay NAS, and backup to an external USB drive attached to the NAS.

I think I'm down to three NAS options:
Synology DS115j
Synology DS115
QNAP TS-131

I'm kind of leaning toward the DS115, largely just to have USB3 rather than USB2 (DS115j is only USB2) -- and leaning toward Synology over QNAP because I feel a bit gripless, and I gather Synology to be a bit more friendly. Sensible?

One thing I'm confused about -- I assume the internal drive will be formatted however the NAS wants to format it -- but what is the best way to format the external USB drive? Ideally I'd be able to plug that USB drive into either a Mac or a PC, but I gather the best way to do that is exFAT, and I gather that isn't an option.

I'm using mostly Macs now, but I had been using PCs for many years prior -- so, my current priority is Mac, but I do value "having options."

Is there a difference between Synology and QNAP regarding the options for formatting the external drive?

Also: the backup software I use (ChronoSync) will give me a log of what files have changed when a backup runs -- and I gather Synology doesn't provide similar info when it runs a NAS-to-USB backup -- does QNAP?

(I ask because it gives me some reassurance to see a list of updated/deleted files after a backup.)

Thanks so much to everybody -- feel like I'm getting very close, and hopefully this converstation may be useful to some other somebody sometime... -Scott

 

[stevech]

Even USB3 is painfully slow as compare to a two disk NAS with two volumes and use of SATA speeds.
Today I'm doing a full backup of a 3TB drive in the NAS that is 45% full. To a USB3 drive. First time, not incremental backup. Takes like 10 hours.
This is my backup-backup, as I keep this drive out of sight of burglars.
The 2nd drive in the NAS is a Time Backup of key folders so I can go back to a file version from yesterday or months ago.

Synology's backup (there are several choices) don't log individual files. The date/time of the backup is logged. That's what I want because a huge list of individual files (mine is over a million files even in just under 2TB), is unworkable.

You can backup files/folders (as I do) to an external disk formatted as NTFS or ext4 as you prefer. The latter is faster. For windows, there's a freeware program to mount and use an ext4 volume. I've used it.

You're on the right decision track. I'd go with a two bay from either vendor.
3-2-1 backup
3 copies, at least 2 different media (internal disk, external disk, etc.), and 1 copy offsite or away from theft/fire risk.

 

[turnstyle]

Even USB3 is painfully slow as compare to a two disk NAS with two volumes and use of SATA speeds.
Today I'm doing a full backup of a 3TB drive in the NAS that is 45% full. To a USB3 drive. First time, not incremental backup. Takes like 10 hours.
This is my backup-backup, as I keep this drive out of sight of burglars.
The 2nd drive in the NAS is a Time Backup of key folders so I can go back to a file version from yesterday or months ago.

Synology's backup (there are several choices) don't log individual files. The date/time of the backup is logged. That's what I want because a huge list of individual files (mine is over a million files even in just under 2TB), is unworkable.

You can backup files/folders (as I do) to an external disk formatted as NTFS or ext4 as you prefer. The latter is faster. For windows, there's a freeware program to mount and use an ext4 volume. I've used it.

You're on the right decision track. I'd go with a two bay from either vendor.
3-2-1 backup
3 copies, at least 2 different media (internal disk, external disk, etc.), and 1 copy offsite or away from theft/fire risk.

But a 2-disk NAS doesn't provide the second copy that the external USB would -- or did I misunderstand you there? Meaning, what's the benefit of that second drive in the NAS, assuming we still have to back the NAS up to an external USB drive? (Sure, copying from one bay to the other within the NAS would be faster, but I don't think two drives in on NAS is a 'finished' solution, as you still need to backup to an external).

And regarding the external USB drive, the choices are NTFS or ext4, and that's it? Is the same true for both Synology and QNAP?

 

[stevech]

Yes, you misunderstood.
I chose to setup my 2 bay NAS without RAID1 (mirroring). Because with RAID1, there's ONE file system, duplicated. All flaws are duplicated. You oops-delete a folder, it's gone on both. Instead, I use two volumes in the 2-bay. Each drive is an independent file system. Drive 1 is volume 1; drive 2 is volume 2. I setup the auto-backup to copy VIP folders from 1 to 2, daily. And VVIP folders to everpresent 64GB SD card in my NAS. And I use a USB3 drive for occasional backups of some but not all folders - so that the USB doesn't get big files/folders that are themselves backups.

On PCs, I use Centered Systems' Second copy. I tell it what folders to watch. I copies some every 2 hours, some daily, some upon change. Copy to the NAS. And I tell it to keep the last n versions of all files in certain VIP folders that are related to my work.

The external backup is the 3-2-1 backup. That drive is hidden from burglars. A 1 bay + an external falls short.

NTFS or ext4... Synology yes. QNAP, not sure but very likely yes. NTFS writing is much slower on Linux (NAS OS).

 

[turnstyle]

Yes, you misunderstood.
I chose to setup my 2 bay NAS without RAID1 (mirroring). Because with RAID1, there's ONE file system, duplicated. All flaws are duplicated. You oops-delete a folder, it's gone on both. Instead, I use two volumes in the 2-bay. Each drive is an independent file system. Drive 1 is volume 1; drive 2 is volume 2. I setup the auto-backup to copy VIP folders from 1 to 2, daily. And VVIP folders to everpresent 64GB SD card in my NAS. And I use a USB3 drive for occasional backups of some but not all folders - so that the USB doesn't get big files/folders that are themselves backups.

On PCs, I use Centered Systems' Second copy. I tell it what folders to watch. I copies some every 2 hours, some daily, some upon change. Copy to the NAS. And I tell it to keep the last n versions of all files in certain VIP folders that are related to my work.

The external backup is the 3-2-1 backup. That drive is hidden from burglars. A 1 bay + an external falls short.

NTFS or ext4... Synology yes. QNAP, not sure but very likely yes. NTFS writing is much slower on Linux (NAS OS).

I see. For me, I don't have "VIP" or "VVIP" -- to me, I just want everything -- so as I see it, I would back up my work to "volume 1/drive 1" (which would be the only drive), and back that to the external (which would then be my "oops" folder).

For "mostly Mac" users here, how do you format the external USB you attach to your NAS? Are there different options for Synology vs. QNAP?

 

[stevech]

My NAS (and most?) has an option to format a drive to either NTFS or ext4. It's in the GUI.

 

[turnstyle]

Thanks, since this seemed like it was veering of onto a different particular topic (formatting external USB for a NAS on a mostly-Mac LAN) I started a new thread:

http://www.snbforums.com/threads/new-to-nas-question-about-formatting-external-usb-for-mac.26644/