MoCA 2.0 with Cable Amplifier

[JWadle]

I'm trying to install MoCA 2.0 bonded in my network using a new Actiontec ECB6200 adapter. My system includes a Commscope CSAPDU5VP amplifier at the Comcast entry point, but it appears that MoCA 2.0 frequencies are blocked by this amplifier.

This amplifier has not caused any problem with my existing MoCA 1.1 network (created by an Arris SBG6782-AC modem/router), but apparently MoCA 2.0 bonded requires a wider range of frequencies than MoCA 1.1.

My question is: What amplifier can replace my Commscope CSAPDU5VP (5 port) amplifier and allow MoCA 2.0 bonded frequencies to pass?

I found that Commscope has a new model CSMAPDU5VPI which appears to allow MoCA to pass but it seems not available for sale.

Can anyone suggest a replacement for my CSAPDU5VP that will support MoCA 2.0?
edit · · Today 10:09 pm ·

 

[stevech]

My cable amp connects to the coax that first enters my home. Everything is downstream of the amp.
This is how amps are supposed to be installed. MoCA in your house shouldn't need to propagate across an amp.

 

[jkozlow3]

I have the EVO1-5-U/U amp which does the same thing as your Commscope (Comcast uses both the PPC/EVO and Commscope amps from what I read on Comcast forums when looking for an amp myself). It is MOCA-certified (the instructions contain the MOCA logo) and works fine with MOCA 1.1. I do not own any MOCA 2.0 equipment, so I'm not sure if you'd run into the same problems.

These can be purchased on eBay very cheaply, but make sure you get the U/U version which has a 0db reverse loss. The U/P model has a 10db reverse loss which you DO NOT want!

Here's a link to the seller where I bought mine a month ago. Looks like he/she still has 1 left:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/151889183503

 

[nagle3092]

My cable amp connects to the coax that first enters my home. Everything is downstream of the amp.
This is how amps are supposed to be installed. MoCA in your house shouldn't need to propagate across an amp.

This is what I was thinking as well. Just get a moca certified splitter that has all the runs on it and feed it from the amp (like in my diagram here). It would definitely be cheaper than buying a new amp.

 

[jkozlow3]

These Commscope and PPC/EVO amps aren't exactly "amps" in the traditional sense though (they aren't unity gain amps like the old days - that's what a Comcast tech on the Comcast forums explained once). They are more like 5-way splitters with a 0db forward & return gain. Comcast uses them on their X1 installations when the signal strength is insufficient for the number of splits required. The signal out for each of the feeds will equal the signal on the line in. These splitters/amps are typically installed at the demarkation point inside the customer's home.

I know for a fact that the PPC/EVO amp works fine with MOCA 1.1 - just not sure if it works with MOCA 2.0.

 

[stevech]

A unity gain "amp" with built-in taps, is an amp! It has to amplify so that each tap gets the same power as enters the amp.
Terminology. Maybe it should be called a no-loss tap.

I prefer to use an amp that has just ONE output tap. That is often about 10-20dB more power than the input. This 10-20 dB allows one to put 2 or 3 way taps where they are needed in the house, instead of trying to home-run each wall outlet back to where the amp is. Some houses were pre-wired to allow home runs. Others were cheaply done by builders with daisy-chained outlets.

Return amp within the amp's enclosure and with gain, say, 9dB, is a rare option. Most Cable-Co don't want/allow them because of interference generation. The return amp portion of the amp, with gain, is needed only when the coax from the home is 100' or more, or old RG59 and long, or damaged. Or in multi-unit dwellings (apartments/condos), there are often illegal taps if the coax for each home passes through the attic of adjacent apartments. This happened to me. A bad/old 4-way tap in my neighbor's attic. In a 4-condo building. Long battle with cable co to go inspect. Previous owner probably put that 4-way in naively to get more TVs, or was stealing service by using a neighbor's coax. The tap was 20 years old.

 

[JWadle]

My cable amp connects to the coax that first enters my home. Everything is downstream of the amp.
This is how amps are supposed to be installed. MoCA in your house shouldn't need to propagate across an amp.

You misunderstand. My amp has 5 outputs so it serves not only as an amp but also as a switch to allow communication between rooms (e.g. for TiVo DVR and Minis). The question is whether the amp I have is blocking the passage of MoCA frequencies between rooms - each of which is connected to the amp.

 

[stevech]

A switch? Never seen that in CATV.
Rather than an 5-way splitter within the same enclosure as the amp?

the product should spec the port-to-port isolation (among the 5 ports).

 

[JWadle]

A switch? Never seen that in CATV.
Rather than an 5-way splitter within the same enclosure as the amp?

the product should spec the port-to-port isolation (among the 5 ports).

A switch? Never seen that in CATV.
Rather than an 5-way splitter within the same enclosure as the amp?

the product should spec the port-to-port isolation (among the 5 ports).

Perhaps the correct term is splitter. Apparently, the Commscope CSAPDU5VP includes a 4-way splitter downstream of the amp and a fifth port for the cable modem/VOIP.

It appears that the MoCA 2.0 adapter will not function on the fifth port of this amplifier (i.e. with the modem). I've ordered a "MoCA compatible" amp (PCT-VCF-19P) which I am told will support having the modem and MoCA adapter on the same port. We'll see.

 

[jkozlow3]

You don't need to use the "modem" port of the 5-way amp. You are correct that MOCA only works on the other 4 ports, so most people just hook their modem up to one of the 4 "amped" ports (that's what I do). MOCA will traverse those 4 taps.

The "modem" port is unpowered (un-amped) and is only there in case you lose power and you have an MTA for your home phone (providing your cable company provides your home phone service) which has a battery backup (as well as a landline phone which doesn't need power). If not, there is no point in using that port for your modem, as if the power goes out, your phone won't be operable anyway unless it's non-powered and your MTA has a battery backup.

 

[JWadle]

You don't need to use the "modem" port of the 5-way amp. You are correct that MOCA only works on the other 4 ports, so most people just hook their modem up to one of the 4 "amped" ports (that's what I do). MOCA will traverse those 4 taps.

The "modem" port is unpowered (un-amped) and is only there in case you lose power and you have an MTA for your home phone (providing your cable company provides your home phone service) which has a battery backup (as well as a landline phone which doesn't need power). If not, there is no point in using that port for your modem, as if the power goes out, your phone won't be operable anyway unless it's non-powered and your MTA has a battery backup.

That makes sense. Unfortunately I need five ports, so I am replacing the Commscope amp with a PCT-VCF-19P which has 8 amped ports.

 

[JWadle]

Thanks to all who responded to my original question.

As a result of some incredible help from Doug MacLeod of PCT International, I have solved the problem and now have a fully-functional MoCA 2.0 network supporting both my WiFi router/extender and TiVo devices.

I replaced my Commscope CSAPDU5VP 1+4-port amplifier with a PCT-VCF-19P 1+8-port amplifier (the 4-port version was out of stock). The difference is that on the PCT amp, the bypass/modem port can communicate with the other 4 ports via M0CA. The Commscope amp blocked this communication.

The PCT amp also includes a built-in MoCA filter on the input port and supports the full range of MoCA 2.0 frequencies (1150-1675MHz).

I now have my Arris SB6190 cable modem, TPLink TL-R600VPN wired router (DHCP) and Actiontec ECB6200 MoCA adapter connected to the amplifier bypass/modem port via a MoCA compatible splitter between the modem and MoCA adapter.

In other rooms, my four TiVo boxes and an Actiontec WCB6200Q wireless extender connect via MoCA. The main TiVo and the wireless extender use MoCA 2.0, while the other 3 TiVos use MoCA 1.1 - both supported by the ECB6200 adapter.

 

[stevech]

TiVo... how are they doing? I'd love to switch, if they work reliably with Cable TV's now-pervasive Switched Digital Video (SDV). In addition to the cable-card, a TiVo has to control an SDV box from cableCo. I've read that these boxes are quite problematic and CableCo likes to blame TiVo.

 

[JWadle]

TiVo... how are they doing? I'd love to switch, if they work reliably with Cable TV's now-pervasive Switched Digital Video (SDV). In addition to the cable-card, a TiVo has to control an SDV box from cableCo. I've read that these boxes are quite problematic and CableCo likes to blame TiVo.

I have Comcast cable, so no tuning adapter (SDV) is required. I know that TiVo can be used with an SDV adapter if required by your cable provider.