Seeking network design advice for home remodel

[red_pope]

sfx2000, I'll just have to agree to disagree. I see where you are coming from and everything you say is absolutely correct. I just think that the edge cases are less edge than you seem to indicate. Plenty of people on there and else where have mentioned adding higher gain rubber ducks on their routers and greatly improved wifi within their house. I've tested a bunch of setups and I generally see improved Wifi, especially in 5GHz. I am sure there are PLENTY of setups where it would make it worse. There might even be setups where someone thinks they've improved things, but most clients are actually suffering, except maybe it improved things in the really bad spots, which is what they needed and some performance being sacrafied in areas where things were fine is okay.

Overlapping channels or abutting channels can be a big problem. Especially in areas where there are a lot of basestations, business/enterprise/urban/dense suburban are probably all not good places for higher gain antennas. Then again, if you are restricting to 5GHz operation or primarily 5GHz operation focused, because of the poorer penetration, higher gain antennas might be very viable in most of those setups.

It is all about designing the entire setup to use what you have. Have higher gain antennas? You probably need to reduce basestation density to prevent interference gain.

My setup is fairly linear and I have no nearby neighbors to produce meaningful interference. I have my router on one side of my house, and AP close to the other side of my house a floor up and on non-overlapping channels and I have an outdoor AP on my garage the furthest from my router on the same channels as my router. It is almost a straight line rather than a triangle for the basestation setup. So the levels of interference each one can produce in the other is minimal at best with received signal levels generally being 40-50dB lower cochannel between the basestations that could interfere with each other. So a couple dB more gain could be good. In my case with lots of testing, including running wireless clients on the adjacent APs to generate potential noise, I found that going from 3 to 5dBi on my Archer C8 and 5 to 7dBi on my Archer C5 and WDR3600 all produced meaningful levels of 5GHz increased performance. 2.4GHz has been minimal across all of them, but there are slightly gains at long to extreme range on the order of 5% or so. 5GHz sees some pretty good increases generally in the 20% range on the 11ac basestations at most distances and the 11n sees those kind of gains at medium range and longer (nothing at short range).

Sure, most people are not going to test. Or do minimal testing. A lot of people are not going to have the setup where they might benefit from things. Some people are going to get total crap antennas. Since they are generally so cheap, I am going to keep buying one up (~+2dBi) antennas for my routers/APs and testing with them whenever I get a new router to play with. Worst comes to worst I wasted maybe $10-15 and a couple of hours of my time.

azazel1024


The reason I did asked you, was because, there is a 3 floor house, 5 bedroom, 1 kitchen, 1 loft, 1 studio, 1 huge basement, including a detach double car port, that a close friends of mines bought recently.

The house is 50 years old and basically is going to be renovated in full. I personally told my friend, this is the time when you plan your LAN, Phone bank and CCTV networks. Like your Electrical Grid and plumbing, blue prints!

You choose where and how you want it, all you need is too install all the different cabling required.

When he mention fiber optical, That was a bit elaborated.
I already knew about the multimedia converts and the different techniques. The house is 4500 square foot home.

Buying the required equipment is another story. He's house and budget. In the mean time I just keep reading and minding my business.

 

[azazel1024]

I'd personally run at least 1 cat6, or better 2, to every bedroom, loft, studio and kitchen. Anything that looks like it could be an office or living room/entertainment room. I'd run several separate drops around the basement. Place them where desks, TVs, router, radio or access points could go. Run it all back to a storage closet or unfinished section of the basement, probably by the utilities and install a switch capable of handling at least half the ports there (because doubtful you'll actually have something like 20+ devices attached).

 

[L&LD]

Installing at least two cable runs to each room (and depending how large or 'weird' the space is, multiple locations to each room) is a given. But I also recommend running 6 runs or more to locations that are central and separate from where the ISP demarcation access point is and a single router can be used (or used in addition to AP's).

If a single central location doesn't apply for a particular space, I would run at least two additional cables to all locations closest to where an AP would likely be used.

And all runs originating back to a common point (I hate basements, sooner or later, they flood) for connection to the ISP and to the switch(es) that connect all the various devices together.

 

[red_pope]

L&LD and Azazel1024

I do appreciate all the positive comments and Ideas!

I did borrow from other friend an old BICSI CD . It contains a ton of information in PDF, about LAN, CCTV and phone wiring installation standards, and techniques. I did burn a copy of it, and I wish to be able to share with you guys. Well I guess we could use as a reference to help others.

I did found on-line more information about cabling. In comparison, the technique still the same, the standard only got better on the product manufacturing. The tools varies from brand to brand, still the same concept.

About my friends house project, it is up to him to build a nice network or shamble network. I will keep you guys updated, he still my old friend and I'm not dropping him, yet. He knows I want the best for him.

Thank You
Red

 

[azazel1024]

I don't entirely agree on sooner or later they flood. Depends a lot on location. It would take something pretty catastrophic for mine to "flood". Even assuming a plumbing break, my sump pump going belly up and/or my septic filling (because my sump pump regrettably empties in to my septic)...it would take, at half a guess, DAYS to fill my basement. That is assuming my well pump didn't go belly up or the breaker for it trip (possibly from water) long before then.

It isn't much, but my server and network equipment does sit slightly higher up than where my well pump is located. About 5ft off the floor with my well pump at about 4ft off the floor.

For natural water infiltration, it would likely take a true hurricane (which is rare) or some similar deluge of biblical proportion as my house sits raised above any run off path (only by a foot or so) and isn't near any flood zone. I am slightly in to the river valley...but emphasis on slightly. The highest recorded river height was something like 40ft above flood stage from a major hurricane back in the 70's. My house sits around abouts 150-180ft above flood stage and around a mile from the river.

Which doesn't mean I could never get moisture/water in my basement, but a true flood beyond a bit of water, maybe an inch or two from some really massive storm, gutter back-ups, etc. causing it would be obscenely low likelihood. Like worse odds than playing the powerball.

 

[L&LD]

It doesn't need to fill up the basement. It just needs to spray / mist the hardware enough to short it out.

 

[htismaqe]

I doesn't need to even do that. Water infiltration in a basement can cause condensation on electronics, especially if the temperature fluctuates a bit.

 

[red_pope]

That is one of many reasons I don't like houses with basements. Unless you invest into a solid french drainage surrounding your basement and a backup emergency water pump to drain your basement quickly and effectively. specially if your basement walls are hollow block, and not pour concrete.

Different folks with different strokes!

 

[azazel1024]

It doesn't need to fill up the basement. It just needs to spray / mist the hardware enough to short it out.

In almost every basement flooding situation I have ever seen, and I have seen a lot, that didn't or wouldn't have happened.

The two exceptions are catastrophic plumbing breaks and literal floods. Both of those are in the vast minority of basement "floods". Maybe only slightly greater risk than fire (and probably a lower risk than fire/theft if you aren't in a flood plane).

Most basement floods involve backing up of drainage systems, gutter issues and similar which generally involve MINOR water infiltration. Of course minor can still be hundreds or thousands of dollars in damages. However, unless you are mounting your networking equipment on an exterior wall or sitting it on the floor, it isn't a huge worry.

Yes, it can increase humidity. Yes, you can have condensation. Again, odds of that are well below that of fire and theft unless it is a property that is typically left unoccupied for months at a time.

It is a valid concern, but up there with worrying about fire and theft.

 

[red_pope]

In almost every basement flooding situation I have ever seen, and I have seen a lot, that didn't or wouldn't have happened.

The two exceptions are catastrophic plumbing breaks and literal floods. Both of those are in the vast minority of basement "floods". Maybe only slightly greater risk than fire (and probably a lower risk than fire/theft if you aren't in a flood plane).

Most basement floods involve backing up of drainage systems, gutter issues and similar which generally involve MINOR water infiltration. Of course minor can still be hundreds or thousands of dollars in damages. However, unless you are mounting your networking equipment on an exterior wall or sitting it on the floor, it isn't a huge worry.

Yes, it can increase humidity. Yes, you can have condensation. Again, odds of that are well below that of fire and theft unless it is a property that is typically left unoccupied for months at a time.

It is a valid concern, but up there with worrying about fire and theft.

The closes to a basement is my tornado shelter at my property! 8x8 feet tall with 12 inch pour concrete walls and roof. Buried at 9 feet deep. Very low level square-cemented roof. The top soil is covering the roof. The main door frame is welded to the main structure and bolted with a 2.5 inch Cross hinged bar to be locked from inside. 2 vents to extract the heat, all at an angle, in case the wind ripps them. With a 8 cement flight steps. I do have a french drainage around it with a emergency pump. to drain the water. Nothing is bullet proof, but I made a statement to my wife, we will survive. It needs to be paint it. But still debating.

 

[System Error Message]

if flooding is of concern using fibre optics is a good idea. You can get switches with SFP ports and low range fibre optic modules are cheaper. If you want to future proof you can get fibre optics rated for 10Gb/s so in the future you can use SFP+ when upgrading.

When a standard ethernet/copper wire gets soaked, aside from the potential electrical hazards it will spoil the insulation.

You can also use media converters but switches with SFP are more convenient and some are configurable.

 

[coxhaus]

Fiber will work in the water but the equipment will not. If water or flooding is of concern, then located your equipment at a higher location. If you need to leave the modem in the basement so be it, but move your router and core switch up stairs.

 

[System Error Message]

Fiber will work in the water but the equipment will not. If water or flooding is of concern, then located your equipment at a higher location. If you need to leave the modem in the basement so be it, but move your router and core switch up stairs.

Equpment can be placed in watertight cases like outdoor stuff. The only issue you need to be aware of is the amount of cooling required.