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Whats are Pro and Cons connecting a external hardisk to wireless router

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And what does the electricity to power it cost?

Not much....my FreeNAS desktop...an Asus ATX enthusiast board with a AMD atholn II triple core, on board video, 8gb ddr2 ram, and 8 drives (all 7,200rpm) , 500watt psu....hooked up to my watt meter...at load...only about 150 watts, under 80 at idle. And very fast, I use ZFS on all drives and wire transfers are full hdd speed. The system itself is way overpowered for what it does...lol. But plenty room for use of all the awesome and more advanced features the OS offers. AMD does a good job in power efficiency(at least with this particular hardware.) (I have read that newer Intel hardware is more power efficient than AMD is these days.)

My HP dc7800 sff with an ssd for os(win server 2012r2) and a 750gb hdd, 8gb ram and a core2quad 2.6ghz...about 160 at load, 90 at idle. But again, its a power hungry Intel QUAD core cpu.

My Dell 755 sff has 6gb ram, core2duo 2.4g, and a 10k raptor drive, uses about 100 watts on load, around 60 idle.

My main 8 core desktop, uses about 300watts at idle.....don't like to leave that on all the time unless I am encoding video.

So..its pretty much just like leaving a 100 watt light on. YOu can also save power cost by having it sleep or enter low power mode when not in use...I do that when I am at work. Wakes up in secs soon as I access it.

I have no idea on watt ratings for standalone NAS devices. All I see is the very high price tag, $500 plus for a 8 drive NAS, or having to purchase a a smaller NAS and then buy larger drives. A dollar or 2 more per month on electric bill, nothing to me. Its summer, AC cost makes that expense a a minor pittance.
 
One of the reason is that in a RAID situation, you will want a disk that has TLER enabled. This is the case for the Caviar Red disks, for example.

It might be possible to enable TLER on a desktop drive, but that will require an external tool, and some research to determine if this is really the case.

AFIAK, yes you can enable TLER in non-Red disks.
 
Not much....my FreeNAS desktop...an Asus ATX enthusiast board with a AMD atholn II triple core, on board video, 8gb ddr2 ram, and 8 drives (all 7,200rpm) , 500watt psu....hooked up to my watt meter...at load...only about 150 watts, under 80 at idle. And very fast, I use ZFS on all drives and wire transfers are full hdd speed. The system itself is way overpowered for what it does...lol. But plenty room for use of all the awesome and more advanced features the OS offers. AMD does a good job in power efficiency(at least with this particular hardware.) (I have read that newer Intel hardware is more power efficient than AMD is these days.)

My HP dc7800 sff with an ssd for os(win server 2012r2) and a 750gb hdd, 8gb ram and a core2quad 2.6ghz...about 160 at load, 90 at idle. But again, its a power hungry Intel QUAD core cpu.

My Dell 755 sff has 6gb ram, core2duo 2.4g, and a 10k raptor drive, uses about 100 watts on load, around 60 idle.

My main 8 core desktop, uses about 300watts at idle.....don't like to leave that on all the time unless I am encoding video.

So..its pretty much just like leaving a 100 watt light on. YOu can also save power cost by having it sleep or enter low power mode when not in use...I do that when I am at work. Wakes up in secs soon as I access it.

I have no idea on watt ratings for standalone NAS devices. All I see is the very high price tag, $500 plus for a 8 drive NAS, or having to purchase a a smaller NAS and then buy larger drives. A dollar or 2 more per month on electric bill, nothing to me. Its summer, AC cost makes that expense a a minor pittance.

That is actually a pretty substantial cost. At least if it is left on 24/7, depending on your electrical costs, that is around $50-100 a year.

My setup runs at 21w idle, 31w streaming and about 50w under max load (Celeron G1610 based system, 8GB RAM, 60GB SSD app and boot drive, pair of Intel gigabit NICs, 2x2TB HDD in RAID0). Its on 18.5x7 with scheduled sleep at 12:30am and waking at 7am since I never use it in those "off" hours.

As for a NAS, just depends. Most single disk NAS run in the 8-15w range, dual disk NAS run in the 8-20w range. For idle. Add in the wattage of the disks if active (a few really cheap ones do not have drive spin down). So you might be talking around 10-15w at idle on a typical single/dual disk NAS and around 15-25w streaming or during disk access. Which means my full system isn't a whole heck of a lot more (and massively more capable).

As for repurposing an old computer, generally don't. You can go even cheaper than my build and probably put together one for $150 sans disks and use a heck of a lot less power than an old machine. If you have it on most of the time, you'll likely save the cost difference in just 2-3 years.

As for locating one versus an appliance...well it depends on what you need. You can built a mITX system in a decent case for a few bucks more and still be able to shoe horn in a couple of 3.5" drives in some of the cases, and not be much larger than a typical dual disk NAS and be able to locate it almost anywhere. I am not space limited as my server sits with my networking gear in my storage room on a rack. At some point I'd like to swap the case for a real 2u rack mount case for better stacking.

There are DEFFINITELY some good use cases for a NAS. Personally, I think the chief ones are ease of deployability and maintance and possibly size/cost. Though the very last is debatable. Most good dual disk NAS seem to run somewhat over $200...which is about the cost of a cheap case, PSU and okay motherboard and entry level processor and you can fit sooooo many more drives in the full PC setup. It is a lot less user work to setup a NAS (which is often just a few minutes and done) and it CAN be done more cheaply.
 
That is actually a pretty substantial cost. At least if it is left on 24/7, depending on your electrical costs, that is around $50-100 a year.

My setup runs at 21w idle, 31w streaming and about 50w under max load (Celeron G1610 based system, 8GB RAM, 60GB SSD app and boot drive, pair of Intel gigabit NICs, 2x2TB HDD in RAID0). Its on 18.5x7 with scheduled sleep at 12:30am and waking at 7am since I never use it in those "off" hours.

As for a NAS, just depends. Most single disk NAS run in the 8-15w range, dual disk NAS run in the 8-20w range. For idle. Add in the wattage of the disks if active (a few really cheap ones do not have drive spin down). So you might be talking around 10-15w at idle on a typical single/dual disk NAS and around 15-25w streaming or during disk access. Which means my full system isn't a whole heck of a lot more (and massively more capable).

As for repurposing an old computer, generally don't. You can go even cheaper than my build and probably put together one for $150 sans disks and use a heck of a lot less power than an old machine. If you have it on most of the time, you'll likely save the cost difference in just 2-3 years.

As for locating one versus an appliance...well it depends on what you need. You can built a mITX system in a decent case for a few bucks more and still be able to shoe horn in a couple of 3.5" drives in some of the cases, and not be much larger than a typical dual disk NAS and be able to locate it almost anywhere. I am not space limited as my server sits with my networking gear in my storage room on a rack. At some point I'd like to swap the case for a real 2u rack mount case for better stacking.

There are DEFFINITELY some good use cases for a NAS. Personally, I think the chief ones are ease of deployability and maintance and possibly size/cost. Though the very last is debatable. Most good dual disk NAS seem to run somewhat over $200...which is about the cost of a cheap case, PSU and okay motherboard and entry level processor and you can fit sooooo many more drives in the full PC setup. It is a lot less user work to setup a NAS (which is often just a few minutes and done) and it CAN be done more cheaply.

So...don't get hardware like mine. Even an old P4 with no expansion cards uses little power. I have a friend who uses one of those for his NAS and he reports only very minimal increase in energy usage.

Get a Atom sff or something similar low power system....still 1/4 the price of a Buffalo link station or similar.

As far as the math goes....say it takes $100 a year to run my NAS 24/7, ok, that is about $8 a month.....if I have to spend $1k to replace my desktop NAS with a dedicated NAS device to get to the level and space of my current setup...so...in 10yrs I will see a return in my dedicated NAS investment, from power saving alone...for get it.

Also, a dedicated NAS breaks and your out of warranty, screwed, whole unit has to be replaced. Desktop NAS, cpu or PSU goes out, replace parts(and parts are cheap), only down for 10 min or so....back in business.

BTW, an hdd take about 9-10 watts of power at idle...so...a 4 bay device..would use about 40 watts, just to power the hdds.
 
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For me, I tried FreeNAS and a couple of ohters, on a mini-ITX PC I have.
Then I studied up on the software features in QNAP and Synology.
That led me to buy the Synology.

The PC would have done little more than serve files.
 
Way to go :)

For me, I tried FreeNAS and a couple of ohters, on a mini-ITX PC I have.
Then I studied up on the software features in QNAP and Synology.
That led me to buy the Synology.

The PC would have done little more than serve files.

I discounted any notion of setting up a PC based NAS - previous experience was that its a nice hobby but like a garden needs a lot of upkeep.

I also went with Synology for the feature set, compatibility with MAC external HDD & file permissions and price/performance ratio
 
Less than that. SATA signalling and other advancements in recent months have improved things a lot there.

http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/red-wd20efrx-wd30efrx-nas,3248-8.html

The drive I have a WD blue 7200rpm from 2012...that is what my watt meter says when I hook it up to a power cord by itself. HDDs havn't changed much. Even an older SATA drive, about the same.

And, yea, WD red, 5400rpm drives....wow, didn't know they were that slow....i only use 7200rpm or higher. The tests in that review, very informative. Not up to my performance standards. No wonder they are so power efficient.
 
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I discounted any notion of setting up a PC based NAS - previous experience was that its a nice hobby but like a garden needs a lot of upkeep.

I also went with Synology for the feature set, compatibility with MAC external HDD & file permissions and price/performance ratio


There is 0 upkeep with freenass. I set it up once, set my shares and have never touched it since...aside from OS updates..and adding a drive here and there. Very easy to use. There are dozens of features I don't use. Only thing I use is SAMBA(windows) shares. I do see options for Apple and Unix shares. I read that you can even make your own plugins and expand on the OS further if you know how.
 
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The drive I have a WD blue 7200rpm from 2012...that is what my watt meter says when I hook it up to a power cord by itself. HDDs havn't changed much. Even an older SATA drive, about the same.

And, yea, WD red, 5400rpm drives....wow, didn't know they were that slow....i only use 7200rpm or higher. The tests in that review, very informative. Not up to my performance standards. No wonder they are so power efficient.

It's indeed a shame that the WD Red are only 5400 RPMs. That kinda hurts performance when you need to use them in an environment with more concurrent accesses, such as for an average-sized SMB. Forces you to go with enterprise drives then (since those SMB will usually desire the higher MTBF in addition to everything else).
 
The drive I have a WD blue 7200rpm from 2012...that is what my watt meter says when I hook it up to a power cord by itself. HDDs havn't changed much. Even an older SATA drive, about the same.

And, yea, WD red, 5400rpm drives....wow, didn't know they were that slow....i only use 7200rpm or higher. The tests in that review, very informative. Not up to my performance standards. No wonder they are so power efficient.

That sounds like access power consumption. The Blues, IIRC are rated around 6w idle and 9-10w access.

My Samsung F4EG are 4.8w idle and around 6w access. I can verify that the consumption on my server goes from 21w with drives spun down to around 31-32w with the drives idling, which is 10-11w, but figure only around 60-70% efficiency on my PSU considering the very low draw. It only goes up about 1w or so streaming over the network. For a pair of drives, around 10-12w total.

Anyway, I think that is a bit of a red herring saying a thousand dollar dedicated NAS to replace that computer. Only if you are talking a very high end one or something like a 6-8 bay NAS. Even a fairly nice 4 bay NAS is only going to run you in the $400-500 range. A nice 2 bay is going to run you $250-300.

If the difference is 30w even, that might only be 6-8 years to save the power costs. Or if it is closer to 50-60w, 3-4 years.

Or if you are looking at a low end NEW computer versus buying a very old one, or even repurposing existing really only gear...$150 for the low end new equipment can be recouped in only 2-3 years possibly. Maybe even sooner.

Same thing with repurposing old networking gear. It CAN make sense, but it depends on what you need. I see a lot of people talk up buying ancient first generation gigabit cisco and HP managed L2/L3 switches when the person needs a semi-managed or even unmanaged 16-24 port switch. Sure, that old Cisco switch only costs $50 and a new "off name brand" semi-managed 24 port switch is $150 new...but that new switch uses 10w and the old Cisco switch is using over 100w. Thats less than 2 years before the new gear has paid for itself.

Power consumption might not be much of a consideration in a gaming rig or something else that isn't operated very often, but something that is on 24/7 or at least most of the time it makes sense to consider power consumption as one of the elements when determining things like total cost of ownership.

If you need a really capable machine and a low power one won't cut it, then it doesn't really matter. If two machines are of equal capability for your intended use, then take power consumption in to account as part of the total cost of ownership, because one being $50-100 cheaper might not be if over even just 3 years it is costing $30-50 more per year to operate.

As for your friend, most people are going to miss $3-5 or even $6-8 a month in an increased electric bill unless they are paying close attention. Especially if you have electric heat or AC as month to month variation in temperatures can easily hide something like that...but it doesn't mean your bills didn't go up.

I am not personally advocating a NAS unless you need specific features it offers that a full file server wouldn't. I do advocate one if you don't want the support or complexity of rolling your own gear, which a lot of people don't want. I personally enjoy it though and between hardware selection, skill and OS selection and needs, there isn't much maintainance for me other than initial setup of the server and it can do things most NAS can't. For example run my Calibre server, plus iTunes server...but I can also schedule back-ups from my machines to the server, then auto-update my iTunes library with any new movies, easily run downloads on the server and a whole host of other things. Some of which some NAS can do (if not as well), some of which no NAS can do (I am not aware of any that can run Calibre server). Down the road I am probably going to move to slightly more capable gear (probably an i3) for things like Steam streaming to my tablet.
 
Also it isn't just 5400rpm drives. I am looking at some Seagate 7200rpm 3TB drives to replace my 5400rpm Samsungs in my server at some point. Power consumption is around 4.8w idle and around 6w active on the Samsungs, but only around 5.5-6w idle on the Segates and 8w active. It certainly is more, but it is a small amount more and the performance is WAY higher, around 120MB/sec max and 70MB/sec min on the Samsungs, around 170MB/sec max and 90MB/sec min on the Seagates IIRC.

I am running windows and SMB3 (again, something a NAS can't do. Oh, some can do SMB3, but they CANNOT do SMB Multichannel.) With my pair of GbE links, that means 235MB/sec over the wire to my desktop and I kind of need resonably high performance drives. With my 2x1TB RAID0 array in my desktop I've already run in to a performance limit as the array has been filing up. I am only pulling around 225MB/sec from the server and around 210MB/sec to the server these days when it was 235MB/sec both directions when the arrays were less full (50% utilization on the server array and 75% utilization on my desktop array).

Moving to the newer Seagates means I may just go ahead and setup a third link so that I can push ~360MB/sec over the wire between the machines...though I may just leave it. With the higher performance drives it does mean I could let the arrays fill up a lot before I was limited by the disks instead of the interface (and smaller file performance would be a lot higher too as I am generally hitting a cap of around 130MB/sec between arrays over the network with small files, like 1.5-6MB MP3s and 4-15MB JPEGs and RAW files).
 
That sounds like access power consumption. The Blues, IIRC are rated around 6w idle and 9-10w access.

Anyway, I think that is a bit of a red herring saying a thousand dollar dedicated NAS to replace that computer. Only if you are talking a very high end one or something like a 6-8 bay NAS. Even a fairly nice 4 bay NAS is only going to run you in the $400-500 range. A nice 2 bay is going to run you $250-300.

If the difference is 30w even, that might only be 6-8 years to save the power costs. Or if it is closer to 50-60w, 3-4 years.

My reading was taken from just having the drive plugged up to a wall adapter to sata power cord with a watt meter attached. Power reading was about 15watts at spin up..then settled down to about 9 watts...idle, no sata data cord connected. When I hooked up a sata to esata cable and accessed the drive, it did increase in power by about 1-2 watts, then went back to about 9watts.

I didn't really look into it much, but the Drobo or Synergy NAS that was recommenced to me were around $1k. Unless the NAS has 10 bays( the number my desktop NAS can support currently- 6 SATA, 2 IDE, 2 SATA via expansion card, + more if I added another expansion pcie card) I would need to purchase new drives. I paid nothing for what I have now, and the drives I use are simply spare drives of varying sizes I got and occasionaly get for free(or dirt cheap).

I probably could get a 4 or 5 bay NAS, then buy new drives, but it still would not match the performance and features of my desktop NAS, plus, I don't want 4 large disks, my current setup, each one of my individual smaller disks as a purpose, I am not the type to use multiple disks as one big one. I also don't run it 24/7(my Win Server system does that) I fire this NAS desktop up 1x or 2x a month for a day or 2 to run backups and system images.

I could add a usb drive to my Asus router, if I wanted for a low power NAS, but I never liked the idea of router based NAS, first, security risk as the router is the first thing in the network and always online to the internet, and second, performance is way low. My desktop NAS is only local network and performance is only limited by the hdd speed itself. My Win Sever system, yes, is online, but has far better security than all my other systems and has muti-use as a workstation and server since it has a full OS on it.

To each his own. What works for me, may not work for you. I am just here to share my viewpoint and experiences.
 
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Very true.

Heck, my current system is probably going to be EOL around Broadwell release to build a slicker server, possibly slightly higher end with an i3 or something if steam home streaming seems like a viable thing for me (I'll probably try it utilizing my desktop just to try it out) since that would still likely be very low power at idle or streaming.

Then I'll probably use my existing system as a warm backup in S3 most of the time with a scheduled job for my main server to wake it up for weekly back-ups and if the main server ever hiccups I can plug the back-up in while I troubleshoot/fix the main server (which hasn't really happened yet, knock on wood).
 
There is 0 upkeep with freenass. I set it up once, set my shares and have never touched it since...aside from OS updates..and adding a drive here and there. Very easy to use. There are dozens of features I don't use. Only thing I use is SAMBA(windows) shares. I do see options for Apple and Unix shares. I read that you can even make your own plugins and expand on the OS further if you know how.

You are lucky then :):):)
 
I am using the R7000 with a 128GB USB3 thumb drive, I think some PNY turbo blah blah, and it's been working ok. The idea is to have a network based file exchange platform available if needed. The USB drive was an extra $50 or so. Think of it as a wired airdrop (mostly macs in the house). The idea is to have some temporary space available to share/exchange files among the users. Here are the pictures from the weekend, here is the video, and to store a few easily recoverable installer files like antivirus and printer software.

It works mostly OK, but I have seen the drive disappear at some point and it does not like it when multiple users (anything >1) access it at the same time. Then you get spinning balls on the screen. If you only access it as one user the perceived read/write speed is actually quite good, but works best if you do file after file. I have the access open, no user name needed, and it shows up on the windows machines and the macs.

I was thinking about using a larger USB drive as a file server (music) but this thread seems to say don't do it. I also wanted to try the router based time-machine backup and see if that would work but I guess an unpowered portable drive would not be a good idea either.

I had a Lacie Ethernet BigDisk many years ago that had enough issues on its own as a NAS and file server. I take it these things have improved a lot these days.
 
I had a Lacie Ethernet BigDisk many years ago that had enough issues on its own as a NAS and file server. I take it these things have improved a lot these days.

I've had nothing but reliability issues with LaCie's products. Quite often their (non-standard) power supply die within only 2-3 years.

I configured a Seagate networked drive once (I forgot the model, I think it was a networkable GoFlex), and it was quite unintuitive to configure and manage.

I never tried WD's networked HDDs so I wouldn't know how they are.
 
Dito on the LaCie power supply, I had to replace that one and even the eBay sources were not cheap. They also stopped with firmware upgrades quickly despite that NAS server being anything but reliable. It booted and was working for a few days and then just disappeared despite static IPs etc. I ended up taking the two striped drives out and they are still running in my PC and the box went to Goodwill.

I have an HTPC that I could reassign/use as a file server as well but I am increasingly getting tired spending time on non-exiting gadgets. For a file server I might just follow the recommendations here and get a dedicated small NAS at some point. All these big PC boxes are also a hard sell to the wife. Something small invisible under a shelve works better. ;-)

That said, current HTPC is a Windows 8 Pro box that I built a few years back. Box is already there and Win license paid for. It had two 1TB WD green in RAID1 until I grew out of space and added a 3TB WD green. The three drives are JBOD now in Windows core storage mode or whatever it's called, so appear as dynamic single drive (no internal backup). I have an external USB disk for backup. System drive is a 120GB HyperX SSD. CPU is an old AMD 5050E dual-core 45W CPU w/ 8GB of RAM, and I believe a 400W NeoEco bronce certified PSU. One silent case fan. Everthing was assembled to be quiet and to keep power consumption low. Gigabit LAN onboard. Works great for streaming video.

If I wanted to turn this a real file server, what would I need to do? Isn't this just like sharing a drive? Would this work with the Macs in the house accessing the NTFS drives on the windows machines? Why would I need dual NICs? I thought these guys are full duplex (onboard gigE LAN).
 
You probably wouldn't need dual NICs.

Dual (or more) NICs are for aggregating the links or for something more "specialized" like SMB Multichannel (windows and SMB3+ only).

A gigabit link is plenty fast. More is better though. Aggregated link depends heavily on the drivers for the network cards to allow it (Sever 2012 and some non-windows OS might support aggregated linking of NICs WITHOUT explicit driver support, not sure. 7/8/8.1 does not).

Aggregated links means that you can have more than 1Gbps of network throughput. However, aggregated links are still limited to 1Gbps PER connection. So you can have one machine connected to your server at 1Gbps, or two at 1Gbps each if you have a pair of NICs aggregated on the server, or three at 1Gbps if 3 NICs and so on. Each machine actually getting that much throughput (limited by the drive capability though). Doesn't matter if the client machine connecting to the server has 1 or 10 NICs, each connection is limited to 1Gbps.

SMB3+ and Windows 8+ are different. They have SMB Multichannel (MS proprietary extension to SMB3 so far). SMB Multichannel opens multiple connections. So if you have more than 1 NIC, it can utilize all of that bandwidth between machines.

Example, my server and my desktop both have a pair of Intel Gigabit CT NICs. If I use the drivers and aggregate the links, I can only get 117MB/sec from the server to my desktop. I can then also connect my laptop to the server and at the same time, pull around 114MB/sec from the server to my laptop both connections chugging along at full speed. A single NIC would mean I'd have to split that 1Gbps of bandwidth between the machines.

With Windows 8.1 on my desktop and 8 on my server and those two NICs, they are setup unaggregated (or teamed as Intel calls it) and Windows manages it vaguely like a virtual team/aggregated link through SMB3. I can connect my desktop and laptop like the previous setup at the same time and they both get roughly those speeds...or I can connect just my desktop and it gets 235MB/sec.


So, long explination, no, you don't need more than one NIC in your machine. It can certainly help performance, but it relies on a number of things (aggregated links/teaming only improves performance in a multiclient concurrent connection situation).

Are you having performance related issues with your server? Either network or disk wise? If the former, another NIC and teaming/aggregating might help it. The later, faster disks and/or RAID 0/0+1/5/6 setup would help that.

For your setup...yes, just enable sharing on each volume you want shared. Now, you might want to setup user accounts on the machine with differing levels of access, up to you. You can also load other things, like iTunes and enable the iTunes server, Calibre and enable the Calibre server. Just depends on what you need/want running on it.

Yes, Macs work with SMB2 the last few years, so they can access any standard windows share over the network (I think Apple finally dropped AFS in the last release or two of OSX). You could also access the shares on an iOS device through one of the small number of apps that allow SMB share browsing. My favorite is "File Browser". Works a treat.

Oh and you might want to set a static IP address on the server. It helps avoid some issues that can occasionally pop up with dynamic IPs and servers.

PS Yes, yours should be full duplex, I'd assume. That means roughly 105-118MB/sec both directions at the same time, which is way beyond the capability of the disks in your machine from actually taxing. I have a RAID0 array in my desktop and server which can push around 240MB/sec or so of data plus the fact that with two GbE NICs in both machines I can push/pull around 235MB/sec both directions at once...not that the disks could keep up with that necessarily...but its the unidirectional performance I care about being able to hit ~235MB/sec than it is being able to do both at once.
 
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