Wireless in a HUGE house, criticque my proposed solution

[sdeleeuw]

I've been asked to look in to wireless problems on a ginormous home... First look reveals a bunch of easy fixes, but also some problems. Posting here to get some ideas...

Current configuration:

Satellite dish internet (1 mbps downlink, ouch, all that's available, but might be getting more options in the next year, solution needs to consider that)
Belkin 54g wireless router (in downstairs electronics closet, no cat5 to main level)
PC for running Sonos server software (wired, in closet)
Western Digital NAS for backup (wired, in closet)
2 Sonos Controllers (wireless, nomadic)
1 Sonos ZonePlayer (wireless, in upstairs bedroom)
2 Sonos ZonePlayers (wireless, sitting a foot from the Belkin router)
Brother multi-function printer (wireless, main level)
Belkin F5D7132 Wireless-G extender (wireless, main level)
multiple laptops on wireless at any given time
Open security on SSID as there is NO ONE around


Obviously having the 2 Sonos ZonePlayers on wireless when they are right next to the switch is senseless, especially since they like to stream internet radio. The wireless extender doing it over wireless is painful too. It's halving the bandwidth for transmit and receive, plus it's on the same channel as the main router. Half the time it's searching for signal as it can't pick up the wireless signal. When it does pick up signal it's terrible. At the PC in the electronics closet I can get the full 1mbps download with speedtest.net, upstairs on a laptop it will register 0.1mbps when I can get it to work.

The router in the basement electronics closet is another big bummer. The house is new, the owner didn't think of cat5 cabling when building as someone sold them on wireless, and they are pretty concerned with aesthetics. Not only that, but I think the wireless router may be showing signs of age, sitting with my laptop 6 feet away from the router I'll see ping times of > 200ms. The wireless extender is on the main floor, in a strategic place that should be good for signal.

The internet 1mpbs is very painful and will still be the bottleneck even after wireless is fixed, but more solutions are coming and that needs to be taken in to account.



My proposed solution:

Replace the aging Belkin router with a Buffalo WZR-HP-G300NH (why, it's high POWAH, and honestly I have wood for this router )
Add in a D-Link 8-port gigabit switch (they have nothing gigabit now, but it's cheap and leaves room for the future)
Put the 2 Sonos ZonePlayers on wired and get them off wireless
Get the NetGear XAVB2501-100NAS powerline network set and put one at the router and one at the wireless extender (I've already verified no AFCI breakers), so at least the wireless extender should be able to serve good wireless to the main level.


Does this look like a viable solution? What would you do differently? With the wireless extender on a hard line, should I keep the same SSID and just change the channel to be far away from the original router? I thought about making two SSIDs, one for upstairs and one for downstairs, but the place gets rented, plus they have lots of visitors using laptops, and the Sonos controllers go upstairs and downstairs. I think having two SSIDs, even aptly named, would be a management nightmare.

 

[thiggins]

For good advice on things like this, a diagram really helps.

So there is NO Ethernet in the house? Whoever advised them against it should know better. Trying to cover a large home with a single AP or AP + repeaters is foolish if you want a fast, reliable network.

Is there any coax wiring in the house? If so, consider MoCA. Otherwise, consider HomePlug AV. But watch out for AFCI breakers, which can kill throughput.

 

[sdeleeuw]

Ok, here is the current mess.. give me a few min to make up the proposed solution.....

 

[sdeleeuw]

Here is my proposed solution....

You are definitely preaching to the choir about not wiring the house, whomever convinced them of that should be beaten, but it's what we've got to work with... verified AFCI only to bedrooms...

If I do the wireless G extender over powerline ethernet back to the router, should I change it to a channel far away from the main router channel while keeping the same SSID?

 

[thiggins]

Thanks, that helps a lot.

The "extender" should just be an access point since its "wired" via powerline.

You should set your APs to different channels 1,6 or 11. If you assign different SSID's then you can force clients to a particular AP. But same SSID is fine.

 

[sdeleeuw]

Hmm, small wrench in the plans.... Seems like Sonos makes its own network when you set it all up. I wonder if this can be done over wired since they each contact DHCP and pick up an IP even though they are on their own SonosNet network?

Sonos is not influenced by the wireless security settings on your Router. Since one of the ZonePlayers or ZoneBridges is wired to your Router directly, that wired Zone then creates its own proprietary mesh network called SonosNet. SonosNet is a wireless network in your home, separate from your home wifi, and the two do not communicate with each other. Only Sonos devices can connect to SonosNet, and Sonos devices cannot connect to your home network. This allows you to stream music to all of your ZonePlayers without using your home wifi to do so.​

 

[thiggins]

That's correct that Sonos doesn't use WiFi. I think the Zone Players can be connected via Ethernet, but the controllers are wireless.

What's your concern?

 

[sdeleeuw]

Just overthinking it I guess... when I read "and Sonos devices cannot connect to your home network" it tells me they don't connect at all, yet all 4 ZonePlayers contact DHCP and pick up an IP.

Reading back through their multi-room setup guide it appears that ZonePlayers can be wired or wireless, just at least one has to connect to the router.

Each ZonePlayer has 2 RJ45 ports, to piggyback more devices on to them. I also wonder if I should piggyback each ZonePlayer together via their second ports or give them each a port on the router? It's probably 6 of one, half dozen of the other.

 

[stevech]

If you have Cable TV coax in many rooms, perhaps a couple of MoCA devices would help get cat5 connections around the house as a simple plug and play task, and no wireless hassles.

I moved from WiFi to MoCA for immobile IP devices.

 

[sdeleeuw]

That's a good suggestion and I wish there was, but my only options appear to be wireless or powerline. Guess I'll give powerline a shot.

 

[sdeleeuw]

I question if the Belkin wireless "extender" functioning as an AP is really going to do the trick for the main level when I connect it back to the router via Powerline ethernet. The main floor is very open and there should be nothing in the way signal-wise, I'm just worried that the stability of two fluctuating products (wireless and powerline) could make it not as stable as I'd like.

I guess another option would be a wireless antenna down at the router in the basement closet, that's just a terrible place for the router to be though...

 

[thiggins]

I question if the Belkin wireless "extender" functioning as an AP is really going to do the trick for the main level when I connect it back to the router via Powerline ethernet. The main floor is very open and there should be nothing in the way signal-wise, I'm just worried that the stability of two fluctuating products (wireless and powerline) could make it not as stable as I'd like.

Powerline + AP will work a hell of a lot better and reliably than your current repeater, which you said can't maintain a stable connection. Here are a couple of articles that will give you an idea of what to respect:
Does HomePlug AV + 802.11g equal Wi-Fi Nirvana?
Innoband HomePlug AV Wireless N Kit Reviewed

 

[stevech]

I guess another option would be a wireless antenna down at the router in the basement closet, that's just a terrible place for the router to be though...

As said above, don't use a WiFi repeater/range extender.
Extending the WiFi router from the basement to other rooms, by wired means, could be the IP over power line that's mentioned above, or MoCA devices if there's TV coax near the router and somewhere near the area of weak signals upstairs. I prefer MoCA to powerline IP.

Best, of course, is to bite the bullet and get cat5 cable from the basement to some room(s) upstairs, then connect by wire or put a WiFi access point (AP) up there, fed by the cat5. We'll help, if you tell us about the difficulty of running that cat5.

 

[sdeleeuw]

It's a log home, and a very big one at that, running the cat5 cable seems like it would be next to impossible unless you have some tricks?

The wireless extender has an AP mode when wired, will that be ok or should we ditch it all together? It seemed to work fine when it could get signal from the router, the router signal was just so weak it was always searching for it... I figure once we have it tied back in to the router via Powerline ethernet it should work pretty good?

 

[stevech]

Is the TV coax scheme (MoCA) viable? Coax near router and near room(s) where you want LAN connectivity?

Cat5 in the attic or under the house for the horizontal run?

I think you'll find that WiFi extenders/repeaters are evermore flakey

If you can get MoCA on coax or run cat5, getting an access point for WiFi is a 5 minute trivial issue. You can use what you havae or take any el cheap-o WiFi router and config it to be an access point. And do so in several areas of the home.

 

[merc]

You mention satellite internet. Do they get TV from the same source? If the house is wired for TV viewing, and all the runs go to the basement, perhaps you can find one that isn't being used and disconnect it from the TV network to use for a MoCA bridge. They might even have two pulls of coax if you're lucky. Coax worked better for me (though I have cable TV) as I couldn't find two outlets on the same circuit in the rooms I actually needed them to be in.

I would also consider just turning off the wireless on your old router and using it wired. Then attach the new one as an access point through whichever wired means you can. Your router stays in the basement, but your wireless is broadcast in a more central location. Best of both worlds. Of course, that's unless your G router is starting to die, in which case I'd get an N access point in addition to the new router. (Or just the Buffalo router set up as an ap with a new wired router.)

 

[Westyfield2]

I would also consider just turning off the wireless on your old router and using it wired. Then attach the new one as an access point through whichever wired means you can. Your router stays in the basement, but your wireless is broadcast in a more central location. Best of both worlds.

Why turn off the Wireless on the Basement router? Just give it and the upstairs Access Point the same SSID & Encryption settings, but have them on different channels (1, 6, 11). I can't think that having the one in the basement still broadcasting would do any harm at all! The wireless devices should just seamlessly switch between them depending on which they've got a stronger signal from.

 

[sdeleeuw]

Hey Tim, in one of your reviews you showed the wireless channel transmit power for various routers using the FCC information. The review is here http://www.smallnetbuilder.com/wire...-power-router-a-access-point-reviewed?start=1

Since this place is in the boonies I figured I'd research that and get each AP on their strongest channel.

Do you know the FCC transmit info for the Belkin F5D7132, and more importantly can you fill me in on how to get that info so I know how to find it in the future?

 

[thiggins]

Hey Tim, in one of your reviews you showed the wireless channel transmit power for various routers using the FCC information. The review is here http://www.smallnetbuilder.com/wire...-power-router-a-access-point-reviewed?start=1

Since this place is in the boonies I figured I'd research that and get each AP on their strongest channel.

Do you know the FCC transmit info for the Belkin F5D7132, and more importantly can you fill me in on how to get that info so I know how to find it in the future?

Use the FCCID of the product to look it up in the FCC database OET -- FCC ID Search . Look in the Test Reports.