What's new

2 routers too close cancel bands? (Related to binded devices)

  • SNBForums Code of Conduct

    SNBForums is a community for everyone, no matter what their level of experience.

    Please be tolerant and patient of others, especially newcomers. We are all here to share and learn!

    The rules are simple: Be patient, be nice, be helpful or be gone!

rikomi

New Around Here
I have a main router in aimesh mode dual band feeding internet to 2 routers down the property using a powerline adapter (can't use moca). One of those routers feeds net to a wireless router furthest down the property on a seperate powergrid. Which router it is switches depending on if the other drops. Like a backup. They are in 2 seperate cabins. Problem is that I notice that the 2 wired routers down the property will fight each other over what device connects. Sometimes even a binded device will no longer connect like the band is being drowned out. My question is, if I disable both bands on one of those routers, will it still be able to be a backup for my wireless router? Give it internet? Or should I just unbind everything, and enable only the 5 on my one and 2.4 on the other. Would the wireless router still be able to broadcast dualband if its receiving signal from just a single band? The binded devices are 4 TVs 5 band and a camera 2 band. The binded devices on my main never have a problem. The routers are the 68u series. Thanks.
 
Last edited:
Problem is that I notice that the 2 wired routers down the property will fight each other over what device connects.

The routers don't fight for devices. The devices decide where to connect.
 
The routers don't fight for devices. The devices decide where to connect.

If a device is binded to a router like my tv on a 5 band, but it's not receiving internet because the other routers 5 band is snuffing out the signal... can that happen? Like I can be right beside a router, reconnect to 5, and I wont be connected to one right beside me. Its only until I move further away from the dominant router does it connect to that one.
 
Signal too strong may not be the preferred connection point for your device. If this is happening often you perhaps have more routers than you need.
 
Can a router that's not wired transmit both bands if its only receiving from a router that has only one band enabled. Would it matter what band it was?
 
Wireless AiMesh node is in fact Repeater. A router set as Repeater connects to one band, but can broadcast on both bands. 5GHz band is obviously faster, 2.4GHz band has obviously better range. In AiMesh configuration wireless AiMesh node connects to the band used as wireless backhaul.
 
I have a main router in aimesh mode dual band feeding internet to 2 routers down the property using a powerline adapter (can't use moca). One of those routers feeds net to a wireless router furthest down the property on a seperate powergrid. Which router it is switches depending on if the other drops. Like a backup. They are in 2 seperate cabins. Problem is that I notice that the 2 wired routers down the property will fight each other over what device connects. Sometimes even a binded device will no longer connect like the band is being drowned out. My question is, if I disable both bands on one of those routers, will it still be able to be a backup for my wireless router? Give it internet? Or should I just unbind everything, and enable only the 5 on my one and 2.4 on the other. Would the wireless router still be able to broadcast dualband if its receiving signal from just a single band? The binded devices are 4 TVs 5 band and a camera 2 band. The binded devices on my main never have a problem. The routers are the 68u series. Thanks.

If devices are connecting to the AP but not getting internet, I'd look into the powerline adapters, there may be too much noise or distance. You can try running a ping between the main router and the two PLA connected APs to see if it is stable or not. You can also do a similar ping between the two routers that are on the wireless link.

As long as your channels are different and not overlapping (and on 5Ghz, not DFS channels that can go down for several minutes if they detect radar) they should not interfere with each other.

You can mess with roaming assistant settings and the transmit power to see if you can make things more stable. You can also use different SSIDs (can take advantage of guest networks to have multiple SSIDs) so that you can explicitly tell each device which AP and band to connect to.

I haven't tried it on the 68u but usually you can set up one band for backhaul and the other band for clients. You can't disable the band that is being used for backhaul, otherwise the backhaul will go down, but you should be able to set it to only be used for backhaul, no client connections.

You may want to consider some cheap point to point wireless bridges (Ubiquiti makes several) to replace your PLAs and wireless backhaul and just use the APs as APs. That's typically what I recommend in situations like yours. You can probably even connect that furthest AP directly back to the main router that way and not "daisy chained". If bandwidth isn't huge and they're all in the same general direction, you could probably get away with a single device on the main house, and 1 on each remote location. If you did 2 or 3 on the main house it would give you more bandwidth and the ability to cover a wider area, just need to make sure to pick different channels for each link.
 
As long as your channels are different and not overlapping (and on 5Ghz, not DFS channels that can go down for several minutes if they detect radar) they should not interfere with each other.

Not possible with AiMesh. One of the routers is wireless. Not possible as Repeater as well.
 
Not possible with AiMesh. One of the routers is wireless. Not possible as Repeater as well.

Not following - Aimesh uses the same channels on nodes? Yet another reason not to use it if so.
 
AiMesh in wireless backhaul mode is just a repeater. So yes, the same channels are required, at least today.
 
Aimesh uses the same channels on nodes?

Wireless AiMesh is a bunch of Repeaters. They can't be on different channels - follow the parent AP. Wired Aimesh is bunch of Access Points, but AiMesh has no channel control per node. They all use whatever is used on the main router. When 3-band routers are used in wireless AiMesh one band is reserved for wireless backhaul. What clients connect to is all on the same channels. This is the reason AP Mode on different channels can achieve about 2x aggregate throughput compared to AiMesh. Since AiMesh 2.0 the advantage is Guest Network to nodes, but one only per band.
 
Wireless AiMesh is a bunch of Repeaters. They can't be on different channels - follow the parent AP. Wired Aimesh is bunch of Access Points, but AiMesh has no channel control per node. They all use whatever is used on the main router. When 3-band routers are used in wireless AiMesh one band is reserved for wireless backhaul. What clients connect to is all on the same channels. This is the reason AP Mode on different channels can achieve about 2x aggregate throughput compared to AiMesh. Since AiMesh 2.0 the advantage is Guest Network to nodes, but one only per band.

Yeah I was under the assumption they'd do wireless backhaul (i.e. AP mode with one band backhaul and one band client) - thought you could set that up even with dual band routers. But never done it with Aimesh/Asus. If it only allows repeater mode on dual band, especially when you have multiple nodes, that's gonna get useless fairly quick. Spacing and power level becomes really critical.

Even in tri-band wireless backhaul they take the channel of the parent for the clients off the nodes? Even more reason not to use it in that case, as you say. All these mesh systems seem to be garbage.
 
that's gonna get useless fairly quick

Asus recommends up to 5 including the main router. Wired limit I believe is 9. More than 3 though is called AiMess. :)

Even in tri-band wireless backhaul they take the channel of the parent for the clients off the nodes?

Yes. AiMesh has very limited control. There is no individual Tx power control as well. Nodes blast full power all the time.
 
Thanks for the replies. So 5g provides the fastest speeds for the wireless node to receive. My tx power is set to performance, I did try reducing it hoping the bands range would get smaller and therefore not overlap so much but it wasn't noticable. I also kind of need the range for my main to reach the backyard. It was weird tho I remember when I tried changing it to fair my router that's using the powerline went down for a few seconds. Right now I'm only using ipv4 dhcp for stability, but I'm thinking of also enabling ip6. I don't really know how to setup individual aps. If I did, would that mean I would no longer be able to use the app to see how the network is doing? Using bridges for ap, doesn't that require an ethernet connection? I use one to feed net to the ps5 and PC but I cant use ethernet down the property. Powerline connection is full green, node says ethernet backhaul. Also wondering if I should use that speed meter that lets you prioritize connection priority to streaming. One person uses an android box to stream news dunno if that would be considered streaming since it's not an official app. All these routers form a line, the wireless node being closest to the street. Roaming assistant doesn't have any effect as far as I can tell, I did read it only works for aps. Anyways should I enable ipv6?
 
Last edited:
Anyways should I enable ipv6?

What do you need IPv6 for? If you can't answer this question - keep it at default Disabled.
 
Thanks for the replies. So 5g provides the fastest speeds for the wireless node to receive. My tx power is set to performance, I did try reducing it hoping the bands range would get smaller and therefore not overlap so much but it wasn't noticable. I also kind of need the range for my main to reach the backyard. It was weird tho I remember when I tried changing it to fair my router that's using the powerline went down for a few seconds. Right now I'm only using ipv4 dhcp for stability, but I'm thinking of also enabling ip6. I don't really know how to setup individual aps. If I did, would that mean I would no longer be able to use the app to see how the network is doing? Using bridges for ap, doesn't that require an ethernet connection? I use one to feed net to the ps5 and PC but I cant use ethernet down the property. Powerline connection is full green, node says ethernet backhaul. Also wondering if I should use that speed meter that lets you prioritize connection priority to streaming. One person uses an android box to stream news dunno if that would be considered streaming since it's not an official app. All these routers form a line, the wireless node being closest to the street. Roaming assistant doesn't have any effect as far as I can tell, I did read it only works for aps. Anyways should I enable ipv6?

Wireless bridges are just like a wireless cable. You plug the one on one end into your router, the one on the other end into the local AP, and the connection between them is wireless. Similar idea to what you're doing with aimesh but much better range and more reliable (plus it doesn't share the frequency with clients, it is a dedicated link). Your APs and router will only serve clients at that point, not the connection between the APs/router they will think the connection is wired at that point.

IPv6 won't help you, just add complexity and confusion. Only reason I can think you'd need it is if you have CGNAT and your PS5 is complaining about it. It won't change anything with your local connectivity.

Roaming assistant works on both routers and APs, but you need to set the sensitivity. You can try -70, then -60, then -50, those are a good few ones to test (-50 will kick a client off before -60 or -70 will). In some extreme cases you might even go to -40 but that is likely to cause some problems.

Also make sure "universal beamforming" is disabled on all 3 devices on both bands, that can cause some problems, never really worked well. Also ensure airtime fairness is disabled. It is by default but double check.

Basically, sharing one band for both clients and backhaul (especially when Asus forces them to all use the same channel) is problematic. On the newer tri-band routers, they let you dedicate one radio for the backhaul which is better, but AiMesh still has its limitations. Ubiquiti sells wireless bridges relatively cheap (cheaper than replacing all 3 routers). That is what I recommend doing to people in situations like yours.

QOS might help but if you have a poor connection (just because the powerline adapter is green doesn't mean it is getting high speeds), you really need to resolve that. QOS may work as a bandaid if none of the above is an option for you, but you need to test the speed that each link is getting then set the QOS limits to be below that. None of that will help if you're having issues with wireless clients either not roaming or having signal issues though. QOS doesn't do anything for that.
 
Wireless bridge... wireless cable... ? So I connect a bridge to the main router, and a bridge to an ap and they talk wirelessly faster than Asus or powerline? With the pla my wired nodes down the property are clocking around 150d 40up on 5g. Compared to my main 250d 50up. Pings avg 35. Our plan is 1 gig down 50 up. I test the speeds on phone so I assume it slow because of hardware. My ps5 wired is about 850d long wire.

There was no difference with roaming tested min max same switch points. I think when you use aimesh it uses a default setting that cant be changed.

Universal is the ac thing right. It shaves 15 points off my rssi on wireless node. I could try disabling though. It hovers around 48 so I think it will be fine?

Airtime was disabled but I recently enabled it because I noticed a speed bump with it enabled.

Is tx on performance bad?
 
Last edited:
Wireless bridge... wireless cable... ? So I connect a bridge to the main router, and a bridge to an ap and they talk wirelessly faster than Asus or powerline?

Better than asus wireless backhaul yes, plus it frees up the band to be used for clients only instead of shared with backhaul. Powerline you'd have to test your connection and see. Sometimes they perform really well, other times they are poor. If you are getting a fast and reliable connection over them without drops or lots of latency, then you can probably stick with them for those two links.

There was no difference with roaming tested min max same switch points. I think when you use aimesh it uses a default setting that cant be changed.

Not sure on that honestly. One of the reasons it may make more sense to disable aimesh and just manually configure each as an AP or repeater, it is not difficult. As long as you aren't using Guest Wireless 1 with "access intranet" disabled, then it isn't really buying you anything, it gives you centralized management but that can be a bad thing since it won't let you tweak each AP to the ideal settings.

Aimesh is just setting them as AP/Repeater for you basically, and sort of locking you out of some of the tweaks that might help.

Universal is the ac thing right. It shaves 15 points off my rssi on wireless node. I could try disabling though. It hovers around 48 so I think it will be fine?

AC beamforming is fine to leave enabled. There is another one in the same place called "universal" which you want to disable on both bands, it typically causes more issues than it helps.

Airtime was disabled but I recently enabled it because I noticed a speed bump with it enabled.

It can help when lots of people are using the AP but generally it slows your overall speed and total throughput. I'd at least try with it disabled and see if your roaming/connection issues improve.

Is tx on performance bad?

Not necessarily, but if you have two APs that overlap and they're using the same channel, that is bad, so decreasing power or moving the APs are the two ways to solve that (or changing to non-aimesh so you can change the channels).
 
Can I free a band by disabling 2.4? Any benefits to just using 1 band on a dualband 3x3? I will turn off universal and airtime. Explicit is off too
Gotta research how to setup individual aps. They don't connect to the modem right just the main router I assume.
 
Last edited:
Can I free a band by disabling 2.4? Any benefits to just using 1 band on a dualband 3x3? I will turn off universal and airtime. Explicit is off too
Gotta research how to setup individual aps. They don't connect to the modem right just the main router I assume.

The 2.4 and 5 don't overlap so shouldn't make any difference other than decreasing your range. If they would let you dedicate one band for backhaul that would be helpful but it seems like that is not an option on the dual band models (tri-band allows it). I guess if the backhaul is not "sticking" to one or the other, it might stabilize some if you disable 2.4. Would also force your devices to always use the cleaner and faster 5ghz band, if they support 5ghz. This is assuming you're in range for 5ghz for everything, it doesn't travel nearly as far. You can leave Explicit beamforming on - that actually can help with AC devices.

What you have now is two APs and a repeater. It just has the Aimesh name on it. You can factory reset the devices and during setup select AP Mode for the two wired ones and Repeater mode for the non-wired one. The main difference is you now manage each one from their own IP instead of from the central point on the router but in my opinion that is better, more flexibility.
 

Similar threads

Latest threads

Sign Up For SNBForums Daily Digest

Get an update of what's new every day delivered to your mailbox. Sign up here!
Top