5GHz viable solution?

[NicholasDM]

I was hoping I could get some users with experience using 5GHz N networks to weigh in on my options here for a very crowded 2.4GHz neighborhood. Range is of little concern to me with this particular deployment as my primary concern is maximizing bandwidth to my media PC downstairs which is basically directly below the wireless router. 20' max. I would love to wire it with GigE, but this home is still a rental for the moment.

There are no fewer than 11 2.4GHz networks broadcasting with usable signals, and 3 of these are thanks to a city WiFi router on the light pole right outside of my house. It has 3 discrete radios servicing the neighborhood. Having city-wide wifi is neat, but clutters the channels badly and is constantly channel-hopping. There is only one 5GHz network that very occasionally shows up when I walk around surveying with my Galaxy Nexus, and the signal is so weak it comes and goes like a whisper.

I have an RT-N66U running the latest firmware. Broadcasting to a couple of 2.4GHz N devices, and my media PC and Xbox 360 one floor below; almost directly below. The media PC is seeing terrible throughput. If I see 3MB/s reliably, it's a good day. Usually it's around or less than 1.5MB/s. I've tried tweaking settings. I've tried other channels. Nothing improves.

Really, all devices are seeing dismal throughput. I've tried both a 802.11G bridge running DD-WRT down there and today I tried a 2.4GHz 802.11n PCI-E adapter, which improved throughput slightly but it's not reliable throughput. Sometimes it's 7-8MB/s, then degrades to 3 or 4. Other times it's 1.5-2 or lower. I tried putting my Galaxy Nexus on 5GHz today and webpages load noticeably faster, which got me thinking about the 5GHz bands.

Are my thoughts that the 2.4GHz in my neighborhood is so cluttered as to yield this terrible throughput to all my devices? Would a 5GHz adapter on my media PC be a viable solution to bump and maintain reliable throughput?

Can you recommend an inexpensive, good quality 5Ghz adapter?

Thanks in advance.

 

[jlake]

I use Linksys AE2500's (USB) for 5 Ghz. They work great on all Asus stock firmware and all Merlin firmware including new EM build wireless driver on rt-n66u. I've never tested them with DD-WRT. They are dirt cheap as refurb. $13.99 (which is what I have). They are 2x2 adapters which give max link speed of 300 Mbps. If you want 3x3, you'd have to buy the AE3000 and I've never used it so I can't comment on how it works with all the firmware.

At 20 feet through one floor, I would guess that you would get a minimum of 162 Mbps link speed. Possibly 216 Mbps link speed. That's just a ball park guess based on my house @20 feet and through 1 floor. At 12 feet through one floor, I can consistently get 243 Mbps link speed. YMMV

http://store.linksys.com/Linksys-Outlet-Refurbished_stcVVcatId543906VVviewcat.htm

 

[stevech]

I was hoping I could get some users with experience using 5GHz N networks to weigh in on my options here for a very crowded 2.4GHz neighborhood. Range is of little concern to me with this particular deployment as my primary concern is maximizing bandwidth to my media PC downstairs which is basically directly below the wireless router. 20' max. I would love to wire it with GigE, but this home is still a rental for the moment.

There are no fewer than 11 2.4GHz networks broadcasting with usable signals, and 3 of these are thanks to a city WiFi router on the light pole right outside of my house. It has 3 discrete radios servicing the neighborhood. Having city-wide wifi is neat, but clutters the channels badly and is constantly channel-hopping. There is only one 5GHz network that very occasionally shows up when I walk around surveying with my Galaxy Nexus, and the signal is so weak it comes and goes like a whisper.

I have an RT-N66U running the latest firmware. Broadcasting to a couple of 2.4GHz N devices, and my media PC and Xbox 360 one floor below; almost directly below. The media PC is seeing terrible throughput. If I see 3MB/s reliably, it's a good day. Usually it's around or less than 1.5MB/s. I've tried tweaking settings. I've tried other channels. Nothing improves.

Really, all devices are seeing dismal throughput. I've tried both a 802.11G bridge running DD-WRT down there and today I tried a 2.4GHz 802.11n PCI-E adapter, which improved throughput slightly but it's not reliable throughput. Sometimes it's 7-8MB/s, then degrades to 3 or 4. Other times it's 1.5-2 or lower. I tried putting my Galaxy Nexus on 5GHz today and webpages load noticeably faster, which got me thinking about the 5GHz bands.

Are my thoughts that the 2.4GHz in my neighborhood is so cluttered as to yield this terrible throughput to all my devices? Would a 5GHz adapter on my media PC be a viable solution to bump and maintain reliable throughput?

Can you recommend an inexpensive, good quality 5Ghz adapter?

Thanks in advance.

7 or 8MB (megaBytes, not megabits) per second, right? Multiply by 8 bits/byte and you get 50+ megabits/sec. If that's the net yield in throughput, not the WiFi link rate, then that rate is not bad at all for WiFi speeds. Often limited by the Client, not the router.

What's important is not the number of SSIDs you detect, but rather, for you to choose a channel where a neighbor's SSID rarely or never does high air time usage streaming HD or whatever. Your channel number choice in 2.4GHz should be 2+ channels away from an SSID that is heavily used. How to know which SSIDs are heavily used? Hard, without special test tools. But you can do this easily: On your WiFi windows laptop, located where you normally want good WiFi, open a command window and enter ping -t xxx.xxx.xxx.xxx where the x's are your WiFi router's LAN IP address, such as 192.168.1.1. Do this in the usual busy hours: dinner to bed time. Several nights. See if you catch lots of long ping times, say, lots that are more than 5 mSec. If you do, that means the channel you are using is burdened with a lot of traffic from SSIDs + or - three from your channel.

I'd think you need faster only if you're transferring (frequently) large (100's of MB, or GB) sized files. That's best done with a wired connection.

Even a MoCA or HomePlug (Power wiring IP) would be far better than WiFi for high volume. There's a thread here on using those alternatives to cat5 cables - since you cannot run cat5 in the walls. There is flat cat5 cable that goes under rugs, etc.

Streaming Netflix and so on can work with WiFi with the speeds you've spoken of. But with WiFi in urban areas, you can expect glitches and reconnects due to competition for air time among WiFi users in the 'hood.

 

[NicholasDM]

7 or 8MB (megaBytes, not megabits) per second, right? Multiply by 8 bits/byte and you get 50+ megabits/sec. If that's the net yield in throughput, not the WiFi link rate, then that rate is not bad at all for WiFi speeds. Often limited by the Client, not the router.

What's important is not the number of SSIDs you detect, but rather, for you to choose a channel where a neighbor's SSID rarely or never does high air time usage streaming HD or whatever. Your channel number choice in 2.4GHz should be 2+ channels away from an SSID that is heavily used. How to know which SSIDs are heavily used? Hard, without special test tools. But you can do this easily: On your WiFi windows laptop, located where you normally want good WiFi, open a command window and enter ping -t xxx.xxx.xxx.xxx where the x's are your WiFi router's LAN IP address, such as 192.168.1.1. Do this in the usual busy hours: dinner to bed time. Several nights. See if you catch lots of long ping times, say, lots that are more than 5 mSec. If you do, that means the channel you are using is burdened with a lot of traffic from SSIDs + or - three from your channel.

I'd think you need faster only if you're transferring (frequently) large (100's of MB, or GB) sized files. That's best done with a wired connection.

Even a MoCA or HomePlug (Power wiring IP) would be far better than WiFi for high volume. There's a thread here on using those alternatives to cat5 cables - since you cannot run cat5 in the walls. There is flat cat5 cable that goes under rugs, etc.

Streaming Netflix and so on can work with WiFi with the speeds you've spoken of. But with WiFi in urban areas, you can expect glitches and reconnects due to competition for air time among WiFi users in the 'hood.

That's correct, MegaBytes. I was able to see that rate once and not since. It's been back down to 1.5-3MB/s since. And last night I was only getting about 900KB/s; not even enough to watch a standard definition stream of the new Sherlock! In my experience, either rate would be considered terrible.

I'm aware that specific number of SSIDs is not important, but the channels that they occupy and the interference that they create. Unfortunately, with those 11 networks within range, all channels are used. They're all doubled and tripled up. All channels are used and in poor condition according to a couple of different tools that I used to use for IT work.

My understanding of multiple radios on a single channel is lots of interference; and 40MHz bandwidth usage complicates things further. The equivalent of using an old school Hub vs a Switch. The WAP broadcasts the information omni-directionally (like a hub), all adapters in range "hear" that information and have to sift through the packets and unlock the correct packets with their specific key (ARP/MAC information in the hub example). What would have been packet collisions in a hub, is simply interference in radio terms. Like a room full of people all talking at the same time and trying to listen to only one of them. Do I have the correct understanding of how this works?

I certainly agree that a wired network would be best. Ideally, hundreds of megabytes or gigabytes of files should traverse wireless with ease. They used to before I moved into this home. But right now I can't even watch a highly compressed (8GB) copy of my 'Book of Eli' BluRay from my upstairs media server because my wireless network is so miserably slow. It just chokes and buffers every few seconds.

I've looked into Powerline Networking before (about a year ago) and the consensus at the time was that it was quite terrible and still fraught with problems, including the problem of being limited pretty much only to networking on the same breaker circuit.

I can generally watch Netflix without issue, but have been getting more lower quality video lately instead of the usual nice quality I used to get even a few months ago. My cablemodem can handle it just fine. It's just the wireless that's choking.

 

[NicholasDM]

I use Linksys AE2500's (USB) for 5 Ghz. They work great on all Asus stock firmware and all Merlin firmware including new EM build wireless driver on rt-n66u. I've never tested them with DD-WRT. They are dirt cheap as refurb. $13.99 (which is what I have). They are 2x2 adapters which give max link speed of 300 Mbps. If you want 3x3, you'd have to buy the AE3000 and I've never used it so I can't comment on how it works with all the firmware.

At 20 feet through one floor, I would guess that you would get a minimum of 162 Mbps link speed. Possibly 216 Mbps link speed. That's just a ball park guess based on my house @20 feet and through 1 floor. At 12 feet through one floor, I can consistently get 243 Mbps link speed. YMMV

http://store.linksys.com/Linksys-Outlet-Refurbished_stcVVcatId543906VVviewcat.htm

Thank you for the suggestion. Have you had any of the overheating problems that they seem to be known for?

 

[sinshiva]

hey, i'd consider revisiting powerline, it sounds like the manufacturers have been making strides in their performance. i still prefer and use cat6, but it's still worth testing, at least. also, i wouldn't exactly consider 8gb to be highly compressed for a blu-ray, unless it's like a 48fps copy, etc. i do understand that it sucks to have to lower quality to get compression high enough when it should work fine as-is, though.

as far as wifi goes, i understand you have a lot of AP's around you, but are they all consistently busy around the clock? might want to actually try streaming on each of the channels rather than rely on testing software. where i'm at, there must be 30+ APs relatively nearby (apartment complex), but i've noticed a lot of the APs around channel 6 are just for things like ad-hoc printers with almost nil traffic. i can see a crap ton of APs, but i still manage ~9.5 of my 10mbit connection to a single core android phone

 

[jlake]

Thank you for the suggestion. Have you had any of the overheating problems that they seem to be known for?

Nope. No overheating problems. You have to take the overheating complaints with a grain of salt. There are many people out there that obsess when modern electronics run warm.

 

[NicholasDM]

Thank you to those who replied to me. I really do appreciate it.

I opted for an ASUS USB-N53 which is connected only to my 5GHz radio and providing link speeds in excess of 260Mbps, and streaming rates of 12-15MB/s. More than enough to stream compressed BluRay rips up to (and probably exceeding) 9GB in filesize with almost instantaneous seeks anywhere in the file.

I've yet to test a larger file, but will be testing an uncompressed BluRay archive tomorrow (35Gig or so) to see how it performs.

I may still opt to roll back the firmware on my N66U to .276 since a lot of people are indicating that there are pretty serious speed and stability issues with the 3.0.0.4.3x series firmwares and it doesn't offer any significant improvements to features or addition of features.

 

[L&LD]

Instead of the 276 version, you may want to try the latest beta 2239 version. I noticed greatly improved throughput at medium range (actual file transfers) even vs. the 374.38_2-em RMerlin version.

http://forums.smallnetbuilder.com/showpost.php?p=100542&postcount=33


Found another post you may find useful.

http://forums.smallnetbuilder.com/showpost.php?p=100663&postcount=534