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Apple's New AirPort Extreme Offers No Innovation

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The Nose Knows :)

I am an Apple enthusiast and appreciate well made products that work and last a long time. However I have to remain open minded to other products that do offer more features and bang for the buck that are on the market. I have an AEBS 5th and it has been rock of Gibraltar solid! Before I plunk down 2 bills for the new AEBS 6th I want to see the test numbers and how they stand up against the Asus AC routers. My guess is it that Asus may have the upper hand in features and performance. My main concern is stability. I don't want to have to reset or power down a router that should not need to be. I had a D-Link DIR 655 that almost had a sledge hammer put to it before I got the AE! From what I am reading the Asus AC routers seem to be stable with the last few software updates. Time will tell. Tim....looking forward to the test on AE 6th in July. :D
In the meantime I'll keep the Apple Kool-aid on ice! :eek:
 
I am starting to wonder about ASUS routers. They seem to have their own way of implementing router default gateways. Also there does not seem to be a web page for ACL (access control list) which is a basic router function. ACLs allow you to quickly block an outside IP address or IP class of addresses which might be attacking your router from the outside WAN interface. These are issues I have picked up on this web site as I have never owned an ASUS router. Please feel free to call me wrong but as of now I don’t think I would personally buy an ASUS router.

I like Apple stuff but I am not an Apple guy I only own an Apple TV. I have a personal friend using all Apple equipment now. I have in the past setup his routers and stuff when he was using Windows. He switched his router to an Apple router by himself. This was a great feet as he is not a computer guy at all. Apple seems to keep up with software updates for their hardware.
 
Thanks

coxhaus said:
I am starting to wonder about ASUS routers. They seem to have their own way of implementing router default gateways. Also there does not seem to be a web page for ACL (access control list) which is a basic router function. ACLs allow you to quickly block an outside IP address or IP class of addresses which might be attacking your router from the outside WAN interface. These are issues I have picked up on this web site as I have never owned an ASUS router. Please feel free to call me wrong but as of now I don’t think I would personally buy an ASUS router.

I like Apple stuff but I am not an Apple guy I only own an Apple TV. I have a personal friend using all Apple equipment now. I have in the past setup his routers and stuff when he was using Windows. He switched his router to an Apple router by himself. This was a great feet as he is not a computer guy at all. Apple seems to keep up with software updates for their hardware.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the additional info on Asus. I should delve a little further into the Asus forums here. Most of the info I've been reading is over at DSL Reports.com.
 
Raptor said:
Apple posted the AirPort Extreme 802.11ac technical specifications today. It was pretty much what I expected but one thing I did notice. They listed the Radio output power: 32.5 dBm maximum (varies by country). Are they serious? 32.5 dBm is 1,778.279 mW! That seems really high. Link: http://support.apple.com/kb/SP680
Click to expand...

that's ERP on the 802.11ac superwide channels - not much different from what they've had with their 802.11n AP Extreme/Time Capsule gear...

It's a big win for 802.11ac though - as Apple has moved both their mainstream APExtreme and the TimeCapsule lines to 802.11ac. Their only 802.11n access point right now is the 2012 version of the Airport Express.

Early reports from the client side - the new Haswell-based MacBook Air with 802.11ac has some connectivity issues - most of this is driver maturity, and will eventually be solved - not tied directly to the Airport Extreme 2013 edition, but any 802.11ac Access Points.

Still - now that Apple is pushing with both Clients and AP's, I expect 802.11ac to move forward very quickly - Intel has already had 802.11ac PCI-e cards now for some time...
 
stevech said:
Perhaps they confused their engineering uits.
32 milliwatts makes sense - its what most chipsets provide with the higher speeds of '11n. 32mW is about 15dBm. And 32dBm is about 1.5 Watts = 1500mW.

With 11n's use of OFDM, the high bit rates cause a greater "peak to average power ratio", so the average power must be reduced (in the radio firmware) to accommodate the higher peak power. This has to be done to avoid transmitting a distorted waveform causing high bit error rates at the receiver = lower throughput. It's like over-driving a stereo speaker: loud but distorted, but in data systems, distorted = lost data.

At the lowest bit rates of 11n (and 11g) the peak/average ratio reduces and some chipsets can and do increase power to about 60mW. From there to 100mW is just 2dB or so. Even 3 or 6dB is insignificant in 2.4GHz - where the end to end path loss is commonly 50-100dB. So 3dB is a small percentage.
Click to expand...

they're measuring TRP in free space - there is some decent gain on their antenna - my guess is 30 dBm on the PA - which is about 1000mw - it's high, but when you look at the spread on the 5Ghz wide channels, they need that much power to push out to an acceptable range...

sfx
 
phrehdd said:
I tend to agree that Apple has always had a thing for "positioning" or placement within a marketing plan. A USB3 enabled AE would detract from Apple's marketing of their Time Capsule version. This type of crippling of hardware can be seen in some of their computer lines as well and in turn, forces people to make sacrifices when none should have to be made.

I have two "N" AEs sitting on the shelf. I don't use either of them anymore. After Apple's last software upgrade for the routers, it is two steps backwards when it comes to tweaking. I use now a 7 port wireless N router that while not quite the most advanced in terms of admin tools, it is far superior to the AE in terms of usability, and as good if not better on wireless speed as well.

While I do use Mac, I am always frustrated with their tactics on forcing us to go without on some devices.
Click to expand...

Fundamental misunderstanding of what APX and TC are...

TC is APX plus disk for backup purposes - APX plus USB Disk is a NAS - they've never formally supported APX+USB for TimeMachine, but a lot of folks do it - TC+USB is a pretty functional NAS and backup solution.

Of course you can use TC as a NAS by itself - and it's decent enough..

sfx
 
etaggart said:
Just got the Airport Extreme and replaced a Linksys EA6500 (AC1750). Seems to have better range than the Linksys based on my anecdotal experience. Works great with OSX Server where OSX server recognizes the Airport and allows you to open ports on the Airport to the Server through Server.app. Supports L2TP VPN inbound which is nice.

No comprehensive DHCP client list though and guest access uses WPA/WPA2 or no authentication. Would like to see a web page based authentication for guest.
Click to expand...

DHCP client list - check the Airport Utility - this is one of those times where the Windows utility is actually better than the horrible Airport Utility 6.3 on MacOS 10.8 - shows DHCP clients, WiFi clients attached, good logging internally and can ship off to a syslog server, full SNMP if you let it - for guests - yes, either open or WPA/WPA2 - there is no WEP which is not a bad thing - and yes, WPS is supported, but not exposed - hidden within a couple a menus...

It doesn't have the "captive portal" that some routers have for guest access, but at the same time, Apple doesn't put a bug laden WWW server inside their gear with the security issues ;)

sfx
 
Sounds like I'm an apple fan-boi - I'm not...

<rant>

I know that they have a dedicated team that focuses on WiFi for both Clients and AP's - and they work closely with the RF team that does the iPhone, iPad, etc - they know and live and breathe RF performance - and stability is paramount and priority for that team. The WiFi team at apple - they own it soup to nuts - and they focus on what is important - performance is one thing, but stability is paramount - this is something that even anti-Apple folks can appreciate.

yes, you can get Access Points that have BitTorrent, Media Servers, and the rest - but you pay for those features with stability issues and security bugs - and limited support for future releases of firmware. Features like this, and things like having an Android user interface and all that - it's slices of bread if the stuff inside is crap - it's still a shirt sandwich at the end of the day.

Apple wifi gear - tends to be slightly behind the bleeding edge - but their design and QA is first rate, and they support their gear over a much longer life cycle than folks like Asus (bleeding edge, lousy QA, let our users be testers), Linksys (bleeding edge, lousy QA, lousy long term support) or D-Link/Netgear (let's ship ODM boxes before folks know that we're packing crap between two slices of bread).

</rant>

just my two cents... pay a bit more, but it's good whether you're an iOS or Mac person - their stuff just works... out of the box, and 2 years later..

sfx
 
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sfx2000 said:
just my two cents... pay a bit more, but it's good whether you're an iOS or Mac person - their stuff just works... out of the box, and 2 years later..

sfx
Click to expand...

Anything not named iTunes, I would agree. As I mentioned earlier, I've been on an apple purge.

I'm an older guy. The Apple superiority complex goes back for me at least 20 years--but then the Apple evangelists were fewer in number and it was all about Mac v PC.

That all changed with the iPod, and then especially with the iPhone.

I've always been put off by it, but dipped my toe in the water. At one point I had an iPad, two iPods, an iPhone 4, and an AE router (4th gen) all at the same time (and not an Apple sticker to be found applied anywhere). And, I must admit, they all worked as you say. Completely reliable and stable. We still have the two iPods but I just put the AE in the box, for the sexier AC-66U.

The Apple suits came out around the time the iPad was dropped for iO6 support--and thus I began my slow purge.

But generally I completely agree--the iPad "just worked" better than the Asus Transformer Infinity which requires a lot more TLC. Can't really say the same thing about the iPhone vs the S3 (or the two Nexus 4s we added since)--those have been rock solid. But boy I can say there's something to be said about "just works" when it comes to the AE vs the AC66U.
 
Grievous Angel said:
The Apple suits came out around the time the iPad was dropped for iO6 support--and thus I began my slow purge.

But generally I completely agree--the iPad "just worked" better than the Asus Transformer Infinity which requires a lot more TLC. Can't really say the same thing about the iPhone vs the S3 (or the two Nexus 4s we added since)--those have been rock solid. But boy I can say there's something to be said about "just works" when it comes to the AE vs the AC66U.
Click to expand...

Yah, ipad 1st get - not enough RAM (256MB) - it was getting memory limited even with iOS 5 - 6 really needs 512MB or more to run well - they did support 3GS and iPod Touch 4th Gen (also with 256MB), but with the iPad, the user experience on a tablet is iOS6 would be miserable.

Anyways, getting back on subject - 802.11ac is fairly fresh, and unless someone has a true need - I would wait a bit as AP firmware and client drivers will need a few turns before all the bugs are worked out. By Q4-2013, I think we'll see better stuff out there...
 
sfx2000 said:
Yah, ipad 1st get - not enough RAM (256MB) - it was getting memory limited even with iOS 5 - 6 really needs 512MB or more to run well - they did support 3GS and iPod Touch 4th Gen (also with 256MB), but with the iPad, the user experience on a tablet is iOS6 would be miserable.
Click to expand...

That was cause for concern, even for me, as soon as the iPhone 4 came out months later with double the RAM.

The general response to that was "don't worry Apple knows what they are doing."

The end result was an obsolete 600 dollar iPad in only two years. A mistake--a cheap mistake--by Apple on a flagship product. That left a bad taste in my mouth. I unloaded it on Glyde and went with the ASUS.

Two years later, 1 Gig on the Asus Transformer feels like a cheap mistake. 2 Gig seems to be the going rate. Should have gone with the Nexus 7--even though it only has 1 gig, but at 200 dollars I could live with it. I'll be hard pressed to spend more than 2-300 on a tablet again.

Veering off the subject a bit--but I suppose relevant in the "apple just works" sentiment. It is not always a panacea. I suppose the orignal iPad "just works" still but it was off-putting to be put off the reservation in such short order.
 
yeah, know what you mean...

but also consider that the iPad 1 - it's not like it stopped working the day that IOS 6 was released - it should still work just fine the way it is.

The primary concern is that with iOS, they don't backport security patches for devices that are not on the current OS - that's the bigger issue.

Android isn't much better - there's a lot of devices that might get one maint release, and the development team moves on to the next model - handsets and tablets both - even on the "reference" Nexus devices.

Oh well, planned obsolescence with all consumer goods these days - even big ticket items.
 
sfx2000 said:
but also consider that the iPad 1 - it's not like it stopped working the day that IOS 6 was released - it should still work just fine the way it is.
Click to expand...

True. And my wife still curses me for getting rid of it. DAMN YOU ABC AND YOUR iOS ONLY APP!!

Still, it's a signal. You're on the way out. Apps eventually start specifying iOS versions, etc, though I'm not in the ecosystem anymore so I don't know if this is a real impact yet.

And, yes, Android doesn't have the greatest track record on updates--some of that comes down to carriers and manufacturers. Some of it is downright atrocious (thinking of some HTC phones on Verizon . . like the Thunderbolt).

But they are feeling the pressure. I've gotten fairly regular updates on my Asus tablet and the Verizon S3. Nothing like the two Nexus 4 devices--which is why I'm such a big fan of the Nexus line.

These gadgets are on a more aggressive curve at the moment. PCs used to be on this curve but now give years of service now that they've leveled out.
 
Grievous Angel said:
Thinking of some HTC phones on Verizon . . like the Thunderbolt).
Click to expand...

Don't get me started on the Thunderbolt 4G - interesting device, but the post-Gingerbread update basically made it not useful at all - and sucked battery even harder than pre-upgrade. HTC engineers unofficially apologized for that botchup on the twitterverse and blogosphere...

At the end of the day - these post-PC devices, and the services they offer - whether it is iOS, Android, Tizen, WinMobile, you name it... not like desktop/laptops - Jobs said it best - Win7 and MacOS X - they're trucks - mobile operating systems are cars - not everyone needs a truck (Jobs interview - All Things Digital D08)

Things are moving very quickly - and there will be devices and services left behind.

:rolleyes:

sfx
 
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robertwebbe said:
I've ordered one and compared it with my Linksys EA6500 (also an ac router). Unfortunately I don't have the previous AirPort to compare with.

I'm not as good as Tim but I did some tests. Here is the speedtest: http://www.flickr.com/photos/robertwebbe/9117794353/sizes/o/.

And here is the signal strength test: http://www.flickr.com/photos/robertwebbe/9120022484/sizes/o/.

If you like it, please click the Thanks button under this message :)
Click to expand...
Pretty comprehensive! Can you explain what the source of the file operations is? e.g. is it a Windows file server on Gig Ethernet?
 
It's a Synology DS112+ NAS (with gigabit ethernet). I've tested it with my MacBook Pro so I guess it went via AFP protocol.
 
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