Asus locking down routers to comply with new FCC rules

[Deleted member 22229]

The problem is that Asus are lazy, or else they would have one product for USA, and another for the rest of the world that can set country codes correctly. As it is, they don't even bother to have correct codes for Europe, and just lump a dozen countries under the "EU" banner, even though they all have different wi-fi channel rules.

This was fine while a user could correctly set the code, but Asus locking down to US or EU regions has just dropped them off the buying list for anyone who needs a properly configured performance router. I certainly won't be buying any more of their routers whilst you can't correctly set the country code.

Yes it sounds like it may be time to move on and give another manufacturer a try. I don't like the direction Asus is heading down and feel they no longer have a robust product line as they use to. I use to recommend Asus products in other forums but now I no longer feel I can do that because of all the bugs and dummied down output in the new firmware release. It's really a shame but o well shirt happens and you move on.

 

[Bagman]

What Asus should do is lock down the country code if the CFE is listed as "US". If it's anything else, let the country code still be set correctly by the user. Then you relabel the US version with a different model number.

It's ridiculous that Asus are obeying US rules to have a correctly set router in the US, but doing it in such a way that the router is then incorrectly set for the rest of the world. They've effectively degraded my product by removing the channels that are legally available in my country, leaving me with less channels to avoid interference.

What happens when every country in the world has the same rules saying that routers must be set with the correct country code and with the correct wi-fi channels? Maybe Asus will then do the job properly instead of this quick and nasty hack.

 

[W500]

My guess is, because Asus wants devices validated by the FCC now (such as the new RT-AC87) to still be marketable when the June 2016 date comes. Otherwise, Asus would have to modify the firmware ahead of that date, and pay to have their devices re-certified by the FCC. Might as well do it right now, so any device released from this day on will already be certified.

May be so. But why doing this to the older models like the AC66?

 

[Chrysalis]

5ghz issues and regulation locking

so it turns out this silly regional locking asus are doing worldwide is only because on one country america?

I am going to throw in some performance test results.

AC66U merlin (version in sig).

2.4ghz 20mhz band - 39mbit/sec
5 ghz 20/40/80 mhz band and it only uses 20 now on this setting for some odd reason. - 8mbit/sec (no other users on 5ghz).
5 ghz forced to 40mhz only - 22mbit/sec
5 ghz after set all regional stuff to GB - 33-38mbit/sec but still slower than 20mhz 2.4 shared with 19 other users.
5 ghz on a isp supplied router - 79mbit/sec
2.4ghz on 40mhz to laptop (laptop is my only device that will use 40mhz on 2.4, everything else seems to force 20) - 38mbit/sec
2.4ghz on 40mhz to laptop using the older mid 2013 fw I have on my asus rt-n16u 56mbit/sec
2.4ghz 40mhz to laptop from a billion 7402nx - 82mbit/sec

5ghz on the ac66u to my AC dongle is very fast, the issue seems to be with N speeds. However with that said the isp supplied router which is also AC spec is still faster by an extra 200mbps or so in throughput and an extra 500mbps in connection speed.

Is all this down to bad software drivers on the asus, and holding back to stop lawsuits? Shocking figures.

 

[Chrysalis]

My guess is, because Asus wants devices validated by the FCC now (such as the new RT-AC87) to still be marketable when the June 2016 date comes. Otherwise, Asus would have to modify the firmware ahead of that date, and pay to have their devices re-certified by the FCC. Might as well do it right now, so any device released from this day on will already be certified.

Asus should just stop selling in america, the FCC has no legal power over other countries.

 

[Deleted member 22229]

Yes, but he also states that he reloaded the config. That is what I'm wondering about.

Reloading the config from a previous version renders the clearing of nvram useless, unless values were corrupted to start with. Could be an old setting that is in the way.

Point made. I was just trying to point out some people think you have to enter commands to clear nvram and it's simply not needed a factory reset will get it done.

 

[Deleted member 22229]

Asus should just stop selling in america, the FCC has no legal power over other countries.

Doubt that will ever happen as America is a huge portion of there revenue.

 

[jayboyyyy]

isn't it possible that Asus rolled out this location lock stuff in this FW are realizing that other people in other countries are being affected and then release a fix for it. I mean development takes time. It's logical to think that this issue is just in the 2nd or third tier category for fixing and it will be resolved in the future. If only the advanced users are complaining about it and its not effecting there bottom line yet then it isn't that high of a priority. But that doesn't mean it wont be resolved shortly. Just give it time.

example situation: dev talks to big boss and says the next release will take an additional 2 months if we are to implement country codes for every country. Big boss says screw that, release it now and fix the country stuff in the future. Dev says butttt. Boss says just do it. Dev now returns after release and says people are moving away from our routers because of this country crap. Boss says oh crap, fix it now then before our numbers drop. Now problem begins getting fixed.

so lets just give it a lil more time.

 

[RMerlin]

May be so. But why doing this to the older models like the AC66?

Since all routers share the same firmware code, I suppose.

 

[sinshiva]

isn't it possible that Asus rolled out this location lock stuff in this FW are realizing that other people in other countries are being affected and then release a fix for it. I mean development takes time. It's logical to think that this issue is just in the 2nd or third tier category for fixing and it will be resolved in the future. If only the advanced users are complaining about it and its not effecting there bottom line yet then it isn't that high of a priority. But that doesn't mean it wont be resolved shortly. Just give it time.

example situation: dev talks to big boss and says the next release will take an additional 2 months if we are to implement country codes for every country. Big boss says screw that, release it now and fix the country stuff in the future. Dev says butttt. Boss says just do it. Dev now returns after release and says people are moving away from our routers because of this country crap. Boss says oh crap, fix it now then before our numbers drop. Now problem begins getting fixed.

so lets just give it a lil more time.

concur. this isn't something that only affects asus. everybody that sells wifi will have to conform one way or another. asus is just first out the door probably because they were most recently sued by netgear. jumping ship to about any other manufacturer is just likely to leave you with a device that's illegal to use by US citizens because their product is EOL and their manufacturers CBA to do anything about it.

 

[Chrysalis]

Yes it sounds like it may be time to move on and give another manufacturer a try. I don't like the direction Asus is heading down and feel they no longer have a robust product line as they use to. I use to recommend Asus products in other forums but now I no longer feel I can do that because of all the bugs and dummied down output in the new firmware release. It's really a shame but o well shirt happens and you move on.

They already starting to get a rep, on another broadband forum people are discussing how bad wireless performance is on the new firmwares/routers and about the EU region lockdown. People unhappy that on stock firmware is no way to change at all not even in the command line. So this will hurt sales in the long run.

 

[Chrysalis]

Unfortunately, the FCC already requested that manufacturers take steps to ensure that end-user cannot change this themselves, and they even ask manufacturers to document the exact procedures they are using to ensure that this is the case. So leaving it up to the end-user wouldn't comply with the FCC's requirements. The FCC leaves no real wiggling room there.

Take a look at the FCC forms, especially that second PDF:

https://apps.fcc.gov/oetcf/kdb/forms/FTSSearchResultPage.cfm?id=39498&switch=P

They aren't just "suggesting", they are "requiring" things out of manufacturers here. And the FCC wording is scaring me enough to fear that we might someday be facing manufacturers being forced to completely lock down the firmwares, preventing any third party firmwares from being flashed into devices.

That's why I am being *VERY* careful there, despite what some of you might think. I'm not going to help killing third-party firmware projects.

And locking down third party firmwares isn't that far-fetched. Most embedded device manufacturers are already doing so, through the use of encryption and signing keys. The WDTV for instance (since that's one case I'm quite familiar with) requires that the Linux kernel be signed with a private key, making it impossible for any third party to flash a modified Linux kernel.

So if the FCC decides that router manufacturers aren't doing enough, and starts requiring device lockdowns against third party firmwares, it will be game over for all of us. You won't just be missing a few extra mw or a few extra channels, you will be missing *everything* that can be obtained through Asuswrt-merlin, OpenWRT, Tomato, DD-WRT...

The FCC Dont have that kind of power, what is happening is because of the size of the market asus is complying with their wishes. But the FCC cannot do crap about other countries.

 

[Chrysalis]

If you can think of any simple and reliable way to only enforce it for US owners then I'm open to suggestions...

Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk

Some ideas.

Country select screen. If the FCC are trying to remove user choice I think they would lose a court case.
IP lookup which detects country of internet ip, then prompt the user to switch to their region.
Say screw it, have proper unlocked firmware with older wireless drivers as well which had higher power output, and then put a disclaimer on your site stating the firmware is for non USA users only due to government policies, of course you will probably have to stop doing any fixes for comcast etc.


Keep old versions of source code, you never know when will need them.

Basically the worst that can happen is new asus versions become closed source, then we just make new versions of custom firmware from older asus code.

 

[jayboyyyy]

The FCC Dont have that kind of power, what is happening is because of the size of the market asus is complying with their wishes. But the FCC cannot do crap about other countries.

did you even read what he was responding to. he never said they have "any control over their sales in other countries. if you are going to call someone out especially the dev of the FW then take the time to read... and actually be accurate in what you say. Merlin basically said apples are red and you said no they aren't oranges are orange...

 

[ColinTaylor]

I don't understand where you get your "faster by 200mbps" figure from. But by way of a comparison, using my clunky old laptop that only has 2 antennas I get:

2.4GHz: Link Speed = 144Mbps, Measured throughput = 88Mbps
5GHz: Link Speed = 300Mbps, Measured throughput = 180Mbps

This was measured at close range. Were your figures obtained at a distance?

 

[W500]

Since all routers share the same firmware code, I suppose.

That seems unlikely. Country specific regulations are implemented in the firmware of the radio chips. Ac87 uses Quantenna for 5g and the others use Broadcom.

 

[Bagman]

isn't it possible that Asus rolled out this location lock stuff in this FW are realizing that other people in other countries are being affected and then release a fix for it. I mean development takes time. It's logical to think that this issue is just in the 2nd or third tier category for fixing and it will be resolved in the future. If only the advanced users are complaining about it and its not effecting there bottom line yet then it isn't that high of a priority. But that doesn't mean it wont be resolved shortly. Just give it time.

In the meantime customers miss out on fixes and improvements, or have to have their channels cut and subsequent poor performance due to interference. Don't forget, this US lockdown settings aren't needed for a few more years, Asus could easily take another few months to do it right if they wanted to. Asus are simply bowing to the great dollar and ignoring everyone that bought their products outside of the US, because those customers don't matter to Asus.

We may be a smaller group of techies, but we are also paying customers, and as a customer I'm very disappointed at this half-assed lock-down that Asus have implemented, especially given as it is on an expensive performance home router.

I've recommended Asus routers to lots of people and on lots of forums, but now I'll be warning people away. Is that what Asus want? A reputation for screwing over their customers by removing features with firmware updates?

How about Asus tell us when they are going to fix this, and actually do so, instead of customers hoping and praying Asus might fix it out of the goodness of their hearts for those of us that have nothing to do with the FCC.

 

[Deleted member 27741]

If the US wants it locked it down, then yes they will all be locked down. This is common in manufacturing but that does not make it any less frustrating for countries that do not have US regulations. This will likely hold true for any and all equipment that is sold internationally, and that includes just about every manufacturer.

Also, if you think commenting to the FCC or anyone else will help, consider that a top FCC official essentially dismissed the over a million comments on net neutrality saying that “A lot of these comments are one paragraph, two paragraphs, they don’t have much substance beyond, ‘we want strong Net Neutrality.”

So basically a million people told them they don't want the FCC borking our internets and they come back with this. We want strong net neutrality is pretty easy understand, if you are not a top FCC official, that is.

 

[Chrysalis]

did you even read what he was responding to. he never said they have "any control over their sales in other countries. if you are going to call someone out especially the dev of the FW then take the time to read... and actually be accurate in what you say. Merlin basically said apples are red and you said no they aren't oranges are orange...

Calm down, I am not calling anyone out, just responding with my opinion and I think he doesnt need to worry about getting into trouble.

 

[Chrysalis]

In the meantime customers miss out on fixes and improvements, or have to have their channels cut and subsequent poor performance due to interference. Don't forget, this US lockdown settings aren't needed for a few more years, Asus could easily take another few months to do it right if they wanted to. Asus are simply bowing to the great dollar and ignoring everyone that bought their products outside of the US, because those customers don't matter to Asus.

We may be a smaller group of techies, but we are also paying customers, and as a customer I'm very disappointed at this half-assed lock-down that Asus have implemented, especially given as it is on an expensive performance home router.

I've recommended Asus routers to lots of people and on lots of forums, but now I'll be warning people away. Is that what Asus want? A reputation for screwing over their customers by removing features with firmware updates?

How about Asus tell us when they are going to fix this, and actually do so, instead of customers hoping and praying Asus might fix it out of the goodness of their hearts for those of us that have nothing to do with the FCC.

I agree but the alternative isnt a pretty picture either.

Billion have different firmwares for different regions, australia seems to be their primary country. With billion they have rapid support in australia, rep's on forums etc. and often have firmwares that are exclusive to australia only and other countries lagging behind because they "less important". So aa unique firmware for USA and another for EU e.g. might not be a pretty thing and then would people like merlin customise each region or just do one?

What happens if someone like netgear or asus sticks two fingers up at the FCC, do they get withdrawn from shops? or just lose the FCC approval badge noone cares about? FCC approval might get a rep in 5 years for been FCC approved = avoid, gimped wireless