Belkin Pre-N still has best range in the last 10 years, but...

[Micharlie]

Hi all,
First post!

I purchased this router in 2005 and I can say that this thing has the best range among others I've tried and the closest is my old ASUS RT-AC68U. However, Belkin has no AC, it has/had some problems with Airplay in some setups. No WPA2 security which limits me in certain setups. It cannot pass 20mbps when I run a speedtest from my Mac Air although my connection is 50mbps which Asus was reaching to 40mbps easily.

I do not play games at all. Some youtube streaming from laptops, idevices in the house, but a lot of Apple TV streaming WIRED not wireless.

I need a router that has the best wireless range with ac since I have devices with ac. I really do not need any other features.

I know the range drops when connected via 5ghz radio but it is good to have that option.

So, what do you suggest?

Would the new Netgear R8000 has the best range? Is there anything with better range than the ASUS AC68u?

Thanks.


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[Micharlie]

Is this any good? I know no AC but I think I can live without it as long as I have good range.
Ubiquiti AirRouter HP Indoor WiFi router https://www.amazon.com/dp/B007ZJ8KLA/?tag=snbforums-20



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[Micharlie]

Or what about this? My modem also has wireless router built-in. I disabled it since I am using a router. How about connecting this and enable the router in the modem? I have "some" knowledge so I believe I can set this up. I just need super range!!!

Ubiquiti UniFi Long Range Access Point, (2.4 GHz, UAP-LR-US, US Version) https://www.amazon.com/dp/B005H4CDF4/?tag=snbforums-20



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[thiggins]

802.11ac protocols work in 5 GHz only. 2.4 GHz in AC routers is 802.11n.

The ASUS is about as good as you'll get for range. AC3200 and AC2350/24000 routers are focused on trying to trick buyers into thinking they'll get better performance by putting bigger numbers on the boxes. They do not increase range.

 

[Micharlie]

It sounded like I meant AC and 5ghz are two different things, you are right to think that. I know AC is only with 5ghz.

Anyway, it looks like I won't be able to find a router that gives me super range. I want to try the Ubiquiti UniFi Long Range Access Point with either my modem/router or use one of my routers + modem. This is the only device people say "range range range" in the reviews. It is not too expensive either.

Of course unless someone here tells me otherwise about Ubiquiti UniFi Long Range Access Point + router/modem.

 

[abailey]

It sounded like I meant AC and 5ghz are two different things, you are right to think that. I know AC is only with 5ghz.

Anyway, it looks like I won't be able to find a router that gives me super range. I want to try the Ubiquiti UniFi Long Range Access Point with either my modem/router or use one of my routers + modem. This is the only device people say "range range range" in the reviews. It is not too expensive either.

Of course unless someone here tells me otherwise about Ubiquiti UniFi Long Range Access Point + router/modem.

I have several Ubiquiti AP's at my house and one of them is the Unifi Long Range. If I had it to do again I would not purchase the LR model, just the standard model. Yes the LR can put out a stronger signal, but that is only 1/2 of the wifi conversation. The other half is your device talking back to the AP. So what can happen is that your device shows a strong signal (like 4 bars) but it is still very slow or unusable at certain distances because the device does not have enough power to get the signal back to the AP. The best option would be to use more than one AP to cover the area you need to make sure you get good coverage for all your devices.

 

[Micharlie]

Ohh boy more confusing stuff I think the LR would make me feel better seeing more bars jk. I will just buy whichever is cheaper (sometimes LR goes for cheaper on Ebay, go figure). I am hunting for a good price.

Also, I believe (could you check pls abailey if you can?) the adapter(s) are 110v-240v 50/60hz. I will use this in Europe as well as US. The cable is no problem as I have hundreds of the wall outlet adapters.

One question, would it matter how good is the router that is connected to the Unifi? I assume since it will be connected wired, it should not matter, no?

 

[Micharlie]

To make things more complicated for myself, I came across to this thing
http://www.amazon.com/dp/B004EGI3CI/?tag=snbforums-20

Would I be able to just buy ONE of these and solve my range problem?

Nano+Router/Modem

 

[abailey]

To make things more complicated for myself, I came across to this thing
http://www.amazon.com/dp/B004EGI3CI/?tag=snbforums-20

Would I be able to just buy ONE of these and solve my range problem?

Nano+Router/Modem

The Ubiquiti Airmax products (like the Nanostation Loco) are generally made for wireless point to point communications. The Ubiquiti Unifi wireless products are generally made to be access points.
That being said, the Nanostation Loco can be used as an access point. It does have high output for sending data and a high gain antenna for receiving data. The problem is the Nanostation is a directional antenna. It has a 60degree beam coming out from the front. While this is good for point to point or client bridge uses, it is not real good for most AP uses. Most AP's (especially for home use) need to be Omni directional.
It is almost always better to use multiple AP's to cover a house with signal than trying to cover the entire house with one AP.
You could get a product like the Ubiquiti Unifi Outdoor AP or the Ubiquiti Airmax Rocket with an Omni antenna. They would have high gain and be Omni directional. There are two problems with this approach, though. The first problem is that the more gain an antenna has the more directional it becomes, even with an Omni antenna. With a high gain Omni antenna you generally give up sensitivity on the vertical plane for more sensitivity on the horizontal plane. Also the more gain your antenna has, the more interference it will pick up from other devices or neighbors wifi.

 

[azazel1024]

Very true on the above about the APs and the antennas.

If you are talking a single story home and you don't have neighbors that are too close to you, you can probably get away with some big honking 9dBi omni antennas on there...so long as you don't mind the asthetic for 14" antennas sticking out the top.

If you have a multistory home, you are SOL really. 5dBi are probably the highest gain you can possibly get away without, without losing too much vertical sensitivity. In this instance, multiple APs is the only way to go. That said, you COULD get away with big antennas and then just one AP per floor for good coverage.

Ideally you'd have very low power, low gain dome antennas centrally located on the ceiling of every single room with seamless hand-off and fast roaming on all of them and then spread the channels around a bit for no overlap of adjascent APs and call it a day. Since that isn't really feasible...

 

[Micharlie]

I actually explained my situation better on UBNT forum after seeing here my situation is not easy. I was asked to sketch a plan of my place. Let me copy paste the whole thing to give a better idea.

Our house is a two story apartment and about 2000sq ft. with thick concrete walls. Mostly the coverage with our Asus AC68U router is pretty good for our 50mbps connection. However, whatever I tried which includes repeaters, extenders,etc. would not cover dead spots in the house which is where we use it mostly at nights. Our environment has about 8 other routers from neighbours.

The devices we have in the house are;

iMac
2 iPhones
iPad
Mac Air
Apple TV (connected directly to the router with CAT cable)
Logitech Squeezebox Touch connected via CAT cable to Apple Airport Express acting as wireless adapter
STB with wireless connection via USB adapter

We do normal web surfing, Some Youtube streaming. A lot of Apple TV streaming but that is connected via CAT cable.

The router must be placed close to our plasma TV since the internet connection is where our entertainment system is. I chose this way to have the best possible connection for Apple TV streaming. Wired connection is much better for streaming. The TV is in/next to a corner and is on the first floor.

I cannot install the AP to a ceiling or a wall or a pole. It needs to be placed on the entertainment system or maybe can be hung behind it. The entertainment system is against a concrete wall.

I would need N protocol connection from the Apple AE since the Logitech unit would stream music better this way. I do not need any other features really. I also would not need to control the connections via the supplied software with Ubiquiti.

 

[abailey]

I saw your post over at the UBNT forum. Do you have any COAX wires near your router you could use to run ethernet over COAX to other rooms where you could put in an AP?

 

[Micharlie]

I actually could run it to the terrace but that's it. That would be outside of the house. Inside COAX cabling to the other rooms will not pass WAF

 

[azazel1024]

What about powerline? You are looking at basically extending 50Mbps connection. If you placed a powerline adapter to the router with the second powerline adapter on the second floor in the back left corner of the office area with a second router there, that just might give you the coverage you need.

An alternate and possibly "best wifi coverage" option would be this.

Get a second decent router to go upstairs with a powerline adapter. Move your existing on to the kitchen supplied with a powerline adapter. Then with your TV/entertainment center, get an inexpensive 11n router, disable wifi on it and plug that in to a powerline adapter feeding the other two wifi enabled routers.

That way you've got the wireless positioned about the best you can on both floors and absent torturous interference, 600Mbps capable powerline adapters should be able to feed each router with ~50+Mbps.

Granted, this is a lot of "gear" to buy and try out, but if you can return it all, I think it is probably worth while and your best shot at really covering your entire area with usable wifi on both floors.

 

[Micharlie]

azazel1024,

Thank you. Let me get this straight.

What I understand from powerlines is this:

I connect a powerline to my wireless router where my TV/Internet is. This way normally like I do now, can connect my iPhone, iPad, Mac Air wirelessly.

Then the other powerline to upstairs to a electric wall outlet which gives me internet (after pairing it with downstairs powerline) withOUT any data transfer via air, but via the upstairs electric wall outlet. Either I can connect say my Logitech Squeezebox Touch directly to the powerline via CAT cable for internet and get internet ONLY for the Logitech OR I can connect another wireless router to the POWERLINE and use the internet wirelessly for devices that are upstairs from that router. Like downstairs.

The more powerline I can put around the house, basically I bring the internet to that room. Say I put one in the bedroom, kitchen, 2nd bedroom, bathroom(not that I will ) every room gets internet via electric/power wall outlet NOT via air from where the TV/Internet/powerline/router is.

If this is the case, then this is awesome! Every room gets its own internet and no interfere whatsoever!

 

[azazel1024]

That would be correct.

Three things to consider with powerline though.

1) It is a shared medium, just like wireless. Every device that is in active use is using the same bandwidth/talk time. So if you have 3 PLAs with 50Mbps each on average, you don't have 150Mbps using all 3, you have 50Mbps/3 if all 3 are actively banging out traffic as fast as they can (possibly some reduction in usable max for conflicts/traffic management or whatever...just like wireless typically has).

2) PLA is more expensive than wireless once you add it up. Wireless you just connect a device, PLA you've gotta buy an adapter for everything you want wired in...of course in some areas you could get a PLA and then attach a cheap switch to it to share out more ports in a room/location

3) The quality of the electrical wiring and things like some types of arc fault circuit protectors as well as wall wart power supplies can really mess up the performance of a PLA.

LOTS of trial and error.

I've seen some people install a "600Mbps" capable adapter and barely manage 20Mbps out of the set. Other's I've seen get 200+Mbps out of it. Just depends on distance, wiring and noise on the circuit (from wall warts, electric motors, etc).

That said, I THINK for what you want to do and your limitations, power line adapters are the way to go. I'd try a couple of PLAs and get a second inexpensive-ish 11n router and set it in access point mode upstairs to see how it works and see if it takes care of your coverage issues.

After that, moving some stuff from wireless to wired using a PLA bridge might be the way to go to further aleviate wireless congestion issues.

 

[Micharlie]

I think I am going to try PLAs! That sounds promising and hopefully everything will turn out good!

Two Qs.

-When I connect my upstairs you say to set the router as AP. Wouldn't I need routing to broadcast the internet? I kinda have hard time understanding the difference between router and AP I guess that's why I am confused.,

- Would the upstair PLA need a router/AP or would it actually connect via wirelessly to the upstair devices? I guess this depends on the model from the manufacturer. I think going wireless via a router would be better vs. via the PLA.

I sound like I am confused but I am not, just curious about these two Qs.

I have an Apple AE which has only on port which limits me with the PLA. I can use the Belkin without the wireless for my wife's iMac maybe since it can do more than 20Mbps wired. I have a TP-Link N router that I can use downstairs. I want to get two first and try. If it works, I can get two more.

Thanks a lot for this solution. I think it will work

Ohh one more Q. Why wouldn't I go with 200Mbps vs 600Mbps model? My connection is only 50Mbps. 200Mbps versions are cheaper

 

[azazel1024]

There are one or two PLAs that also have access points built in, but most are ethernet bridges only (bridging over your electrical wiring).

A router actually routes traffic, IE between different networks (your's and the internet). An access point, or wireless access point, is simply what wireless devices connect to. Most consumer routers have an access point built in to them and are called wireless routers or wifi routers. The access point can be shut off, so it just runs as a router.

So upstairs you just want an access point, or you want a router running in access point mode (connect to LAN port instead of WAN port, disable DHCP on it and assign an IP address to it outside of the DHCP lease range of your main router).

You'll need a PLA down stairs connected to your router and a PLA upstairs connected to a second router in AP mode (or just a standalone AP) if you want to increase wireless coverage.

As for what to get, that is because in ideal scenarios powerline adapters only run roughly 1/3rd of their rated speed due to error correct, overhead and electrical wiring NEVER being ideal. So a 200Mbps adapter under the BEST of circumstances might give you around 65Mbps or so. That would basically be if you plugged both adapters in to the same power outlet, or maybe one outlet down on the same electrical circuit.

Less than ideal circumstances, like across phases, far away on a different circuit with maybe a noise AC to DC power brick on your wiring (or several) and you can figure on cutting that speed down to 20%. So your ideal 65Mbps comes down to maybe 10-15Mbps on a poor connection.

That 600Mbps adapter set on the other hand in ideal circumstances might push 200Mbps...and under crummy you might be looking at more like 30-40Mbps, which is a whole lot better and gives you a lot more margin for poor electrical circuit conditions.

 

[Micharlie]

Thanks a lot for another lengthy and informative post.

OK. Sorry but I am little confused now. Why wouldn't I connect the PLAs to wireless routers, upstairs and downstairs? I could name the routers; one "upstairs" other "downstairs". This way I can connect to router upstairs say with my iphone when I am upstairs and to router downstairs when I am downstairs. I could put another PLA in the bedroom with another router and name it "bedroom" to use my phone when I am in the bedroom.

This would not work?

Sorry for being pain in the neck.


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[azazel1024]

Sorry, that is exactly what I am recommending.

One wireless router downstairs functioning as router and access point connected by PLA to a PLA upstairs, connected to a wireless router that is in access point mode.