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Best MTU Setting?

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Spartan

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I have a 1GBPS down/350 MBPS up fibre connection.

I just read this article and would like some thoughts from the experts here: https://www.sonicwall.com/support/k...ally recommended that,of 1452 is most optimal.

what do you think about what he said to set the MTU to 1452 instead of 1492?

On a side note, I did the ping tests as mentioned here: https://kb.netgear.com/19863/Ping-Test-to-determine-Optimal-MTU-Size-on-Router

The results are random when I pinged at 1492 I got fragments, then I kept lowering it down until 1440 and got no fragments, so I set my router to 1440 and rebooted it. Now I did the test again and it says fragmented, so I lowered the MTU to 1400 and got no fragments, rebooted the router, and still got fragments so I don't know what to make of this.
 
Show me one connection anywhere in the world that doesn't have "fragments".

Set the MTU to around whatever your ISP tells you and gives you a stable connection.

You have a modem /ONT , router and then your PC and its network card plus the servers you test against in the mix to consider.

On Windows I use TCP OPTIMIZER to set the network card , MTU @ 1492 as we have a PPOE connection , after that .... forget it and get on with life.
 
Show me one connection anywhere in the world that doesn't have "fragments".

Set the MTU to around whatever your ISP tells you and gives you a stable connection.

You have a modem /ONT , router and then your PC and its network card plus the servers you test against in the mix to consider.

On Windows I use TCP OPTIMIZER to set the network card , MTU @ 1492 as we have a PPOE connection , after that .... forget it and get on with life.

There should be no fragmentation if you set the MTU correctly. If you are using VPN, you also need to set the MSS correctly too. Packet fragmentation can really impact performance.

Your NIC should have no problem detecting the MTU of your router and adjusting on its own. It may or may not detect the MSS/MTU of a VPN which is why MSS Clamping was introduced (Max MSS in openVPN)
 
I have a 1GBPS down/350 MBPS up fibre connection.

I just read this article and would like some thoughts from the experts here: https://www.sonicwall.com/support/knowledge-base/how-can-i-optimize-pppoe-connections/170505851231244/#:~:text=It is generally recommended that,of 1452 is most optimal.

what do you think about what he said to set the MTU to 1452 instead of 1492?

On a side note, I did the ping tests as mentioned here: https://kb.netgear.com/19863/Ping-Test-to-determine-Optimal-MTU-Size-on-Router

The results are random when I pinged at 1492 I got fragments, then I kept lowering it down until 1440 and got no fragments, so I set my router to 1440 and rebooted it. Now I did the test again and it says fragmented, so I lowered the MTU to 1400 and got no fragments, rebooted the router, and still got fragments so I don't know what to make of this.

Are you using a VPN?

FYI whatever the largest ping that succeeds, you add 28 and that should be your MTU.

Set it to 1500 for your test (and reboot), use ping -f -l xxxx google.com to determine the largest size that succeeds. Note it is a lowercase L. Then add 28, set that as your MTU, and reboot. You may need to reboot your computer for it to detect the new value also. Assuming your OS supports PMTUD but most modern ones do.

If you are using a VPN you then need to set tunnel MTU and possibly MSS max. Most VPNs assume your WAN is 1500 and have defaulted those values based on that assumption, so if you are lower than 1500 you need to update those.

The 1492/1452 debate is around PPPoE connections and choosing a size that does not require padding. Honestly it isn't a big deal, but whatever MTU you discover is the correct one, you can then lower it to a size that requires no padding but again that isn't a big deal if it has to pad full size packets (plenty of packets have to get padded during normal network operation).
 
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There should be no fragmentation if you set the MTU correctly. If you are using VPN, you also need to set the MSS correctly too. Packet fragmentation can really impact performance.

In most cases - one shouldn't have to worry about MTU sizing...

PMTU, which is end to end, usually handles things...


There are cases - for example, client VPN apps like GlobalProtect and AnyConnect that do this badly...

MTS/MSS sizing - this was important for Trumpet Winsock back in the Windows 3.1 days, as that was a bit of a science project...
 
In most cases - one shouldn't have to worry about MTU sizing...

PMTU, which is end to end, usually handles things...


There are cases - for example, client VPN apps like GlobalProtect and AnyConnect that do this badly...

MTS/MSS sizing - this was important for Trumpet Winsock back in the Windows 3.1 days, as that was a bit of a science project...

With IPv4 PMTUD rarely works, it's really frustrating. Bad enough on a private network, almost useless on the internet. My company's network has been specifically designed to allow 1664 byte frames end to end (even the routers can support it, which is a somewhat recent and welcome update from Cisco and Juniper) so we can support fully encrypted 1500 byte packets, but on either end customers have 1500 or less and firewalls that block ICMP, resulting in tons of fragmentation and performance that is 10% of what it should be. Thus we end up having to MSS clamp/intercept on pretty much every encrypted link.

If we ever do see IPv6 and people don't mess with it by blocking the critical ICMP packets, then it should finally work as intended. PMTUD is considered a critical aspect in the IPv6 world. Then again so are persistent subnet assignments and lots of other things that the ISPs have managed to muck up.

In this case, as long as your Asus is set to the lowest in the path, then PMTUD does (in a way) work, as your LAN machines can easily detect the MTU of the LAN interface or even the WAN, and should adjust their MSS accordingly to fit it, even if the remote endpoint does not respond. Since the pipe beyond that is larger, there shouldn't be any chance of fragmenting, at least with non-encrypted stuff. But from what I've seen here, once you start using VPNs on these routers, they seem to default to 1500 (and set their MSS accordingly within that) and are either not doing PMTUD, or for whatever reason not getting the response from the router WAN. Maybe some are better than others, just seems like an issue for many here.

If your ISP supports 1500 then you're basically golden, unless the VPN software was written by morons it should work without having to fragment anything. But those with PPPoE, WISP, satellite, or even several fiber providers (for unknown to me reasons, since FIOS manages to do 1500 just fine), then it is a good idea to get your WAN MTU set exactly right, and if you're using VPN, at least check and see if it is detecting MTU properly and not fragmenting anything.

Of course it is all relative too, someone using a VPN for average daily internet use may not even notice heavy fragmentation, and it isn't an issue. Those who are trying to get as much speed as they can out of VPN on these routers on the other hand can benefit a lot from making sure it is tuned just right.

Then there's the fact that if the remote end is less than 1500 (or less than yours) and PMTUD isn't functioning, then there's nothing you can do, you're going to fragment regardless, but that is pretty rare, most stuff you're connecting to is going to be off commercial internet connectivity which is almost always going to be 1500.
 
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My MTU of 1400 is where I start to frag. My ISP Verizon told me 1428. So I have 1428, 1400 + 28 = 1428, set on my router. Now reading the link
provided by @BreakingDad, I see my hardware is set to 1500 on this rig. So am I reading that correct that the MTU on router should be set to
1500 and will auto adjust MTU setting?
 
My MTU of 1400 is where I start to frag. My ISP Verizon told me 1428. So I have 1428, 1400 + 28 = 1428, set on my router. Now reading the link
provided by @BreakingDad, I see my hardware is set to 1500 on this rig. So am I reading that correct that the MTU on router should be set to
1500 and will auto adjust MTU setting?

Your router should be set to what your ISP supports. That way your local devices can detect it and comply.
 
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I will leave it at 1428 then. Can you elaborate on the techrepublic article? Not sure I understand what he is saying then, Thx!
 
I will leave it at 1428 then. Can you elaborate on the techrepublic article? Not sure I understand what he is saying then, Thx!

That article is pretty heavily flawed. They don't deduct the overhead of ping when testing (pinging 1500 will always require fragmentation unless you're doing across the LAN with jumbo frames enabled). Then they tell you to use the value you pinged as your MTU, but that is wrong, you add 28. They also seem to not realize the default for their network adapter is 1500 and they think it is "being set automatically".

Hosts on your network will have 1500 by default. If you set your router to 1500, every frame larger than what your ISP supports will have to get fragmented, which causes a performance hit. This is because Path MTU Discovery (PMTUD) rarely works very far beyond your own router. By setting your router to 1428 you're ensuring your hosts can detect that. The hosts will NOT change their MTU setting on the interface, that will still say 1500, they will simply limit the size of the frames when going through your router to the internet. When connecting to other hosts on your LAN they'll use 1500 (or more if you enable jumbo frames on the Asus switch and the hosts).

Largest successful non-fragmented ping size + overhead (28 bytes) = MTU
 
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Thank you for that @drinkingbird, much clearer now.

I did set the router to 1500 yesterday and 1500 did frag, 1399 did not, 1401 up did, 1400 none, so it will remain at 1428.
 

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