Best network solution for my situation

[Gryphken]

I just can't choose between buying a router or a mesh wifi system.

I'm moving my workspace to the upper floor, but we don't have a cabled network connection there.
(living in a older, regular 2 floor, detached family home)

We are a family of 4, so lot's of Netflix streaming, gaming, skyping, etc is happening at the same time.
I'm also not that handy when it comes to network, so I need something that's easy to setup.
I know nothing about VPN, right now we're just all connecting to our providers modem, but we're only getting half the speed we pay for and when everyone connects the speed drops... like a lot.

I tried a powerline, but that doesn't seem to work.

So now I'm looking at some routers in combination with a CAT6 network cable.
I'm a big Asus fan so I was looking at the RT-AC68U or RT-AC86U (for it's MU-MIMO).
But I see lot's of people recommend the Netgear R7800, which doesn't seem to have MU-MIMO, I've read on the forum here that they're always behind on updates.
But what concerns me about both the RT-AC86u and the R7800 is that there are a lot of consumer complaining about the wifi that suddenly drops after a few months, especially on the Asus.

But now I also read about mesh wifi systems. Will this benefit against a regular router?
It's all wireless so that's a big plus, but is it good for gaming? And is it good for gaming while others are doing their thing on the network. Because I can't seem to find any tests on gaming when a desktop is wired to one of the LAN-ports of these wifi system nodes.
Should I (in this case) buy a Asus Lyra set or opt for a Aimesh system with multiple routers?

Or will the RT-AC86U be enough and bring all the network joy my family wants?

Or should I go for the older netgear R7000(P)?

 

[CaptainSTX]

I just can't choose between buying a router or a mesh wifi system.

I'm moving my workspace to the upper floor, but we don't have a cabled network connection there.
(living in a older, regular 2 floor, detached family home)

We are a family of 4, so lot's of Netflix streaming, gaming, skyping, etc is happening at the same time.
I'm also not that handy when it comes to network, so I need something that's easy to setup.
I know nothing about VPN, right now we're just all connecting to our providers modem, but we're only getting half the speed we pay for and when everyone connects the speed drops... like a lot.

I tried a powerline, but that doesn't seem to work.

So now I'm looking at some routers in combination with a CAT6 network cable.
I'm a big Asus fan so I was looking at the RT-AC68U or RT-AC86U (for it's MU-MIMO).
But I see lot's of people recommend the Netgear R7800, which doesn't seem to have MU-MIMO, I've read on the forum here that they're always behind on updates.
But what concerns me about both the RT-AC86u and the R7800 is that there are a lot of consumer complaining about the wifi that suddenly drops after a few months, especially on the Asus.

But now I also read about mesh wifi systems. Will this benefit against a regular router?
























It's all wireless so that's a big plus, but is it good for gaming? And is it good for gaming while others are doing their thing on the network. Because I can't seem to find any tests on gaming when a desktop is wired to one of the LAN-ports of these wifi system nodes.
Should I (in this case) buy a Asus Lyra set or opt for a Aimesh system with multiple routers?

Or will the RT-AC86U be enough and bring all the network joy my family wants?

Or should I go for the older netgear R7000(P)?

If you own the home and plan to live in it for more than a couple of years seriously consider installing some Ethernet cabling. If the home is newer construction with drywall it is easy. If your home has a basement or a crawl space and an attic even better.

By connecting some of the heavy use devices particularly devices that stream a lot to a wired connections you will have a much better experience and for those devices that have to use WiFi. WiFi only devices will also work better because the bandwidth hogs are not slaming the radios trying to stream 4K Netflix streams and if necessary you can install one or more APs so that you have strong Wifi everywhere including 5 Ghz signals which is less subject to interference from your neighbors.

If you stay dependent on WiFi you will be constantly be tempted to buy the newest, greatest and probably very expensive new router announced at the CES. For the cost of today's super duper routers you probably could install three Ethernet cable runs.

 

[Gryphken]

If you own the home and plan to live in it for more than a couple of years seriously consider installing some Ethernet cabling. If the home is newer construction with drywall it is easy. If your home has a basement or a crawl space and an attic even better.

By connecting some of the heavy use devices particularly devices that stream a lot to a wired connections you will have a much better experience and for those devices that have to use WiFi. WiFi only devices will also work better because the bandwidth hogs are not slaming the radios trying to stream 4K Netflix streams and if necessary you can install one or more APs so that you have strong Wifi everywhere including 5 Ghz signals which is less subject to interference from your neighbors.

If you stay dependent on WiFi you will be constantly be tempted to buy the newest, greatest and probably very expensive new router announced at the CES. For the cost of today's super duper routers you probably could install three Ethernet cable runs.

Thank you for your answer.

I do not own the house I'm currently living in.

And I definitely don't feel like spending a fortune to Wifi installations that won't provide me what I need.

That's why I was currently planning on buying a router (because I'm not using one at the moment) and just pull a ethernet cable up the stairs.
But the modem we are using right now has a short wifi coverage, so I was hoping that a decent router could improve everything a little.
Because right now I'm paying for 100 Mbps, but I only get like 55 Mbs out of it. I'm also still using CAT2 UTP cables, so I will be replacing them with CAT6.

 

[Klueless]

I think it'd be best to take a moment to better understand what's going on before throwing money at the "problem".

The vendor's "modem" brings the Internet into your house. It presents as a single Ethernet port and only one IP address. Certainly not near enough for most families : -)

So one connects the modem to a router (with a single Ethernet cable). The router;

• Offers multiple Ethernet ports (usually four or eight).
• Additional IP addresses and IP address management tools (NAT, DHCP).
• "All in one" routers also offer wireless/WiFi.

Sounds like your vendor has provided you with a modem/router combo unit? If so then we'll need to talk more about connecting routers to routers later.

Where's your vendor's equipment located? Ideally central to the house. More typical is some far corner of the house behind a TV under a pile of junk. At a bare minimum get it off of the floor and move it out a little.

Now grab your best laptop, connect it directly to your vendor's modem/router with a short length of Ethernet and run an Internet speed test. You should see the 100 Mbps that you are paying for. If not then you are going to have to dig deeper.

(Make sure your network is quiescent while testing. You can't be streaming TV while running speed tests : -)

Staying in the same room as your modem/router connect at 5 GHz and run your speed test. It should also clock in at something like 100 Mbps.

Now connect at 2.4 GHz and run your test. It might clock in at something less than 100 Mbps. Loosely speaking 5 GHz goes faster and 2.4 GHz goes further. As you run your tests from different vantage points around the house you will start building a "sense" for what works best where.

Also consider loading one of those free "WiFi Analyzers" onto your laptop. It will show you WiFi signal levels for both bands as you walk around the house. (In general you will see signal levels drop as you move further from the modem/router.) You may also see some "competition", perhaps from a neighbor's router.

Your approach will be dependent on what you learn, loosely speaking;

• You see strong neighbor presence on your channel; reconfigure your modem/router to use a different channel.
• Overall things are just slightly weak; maybe a new router with a reputation for better wireless range would help? Or maybe just moving it up and out from the corner? Talk with your Internet provider, sometimes they will simply upgrade your equipment to something more current.
• Just one corner of the house really sucks; add a wired access point or range extender to your network.
• Some areas work well but multiple "corners" of the house really suck; "mesh" is just a fancy word for multiple APs and extenders that auto configure.

Until then my bias is towards Asus because I love their built in traffic monitor. It can help some when trying to better understand issues like this.

 

[Gryphken]

I think it'd be best to take a moment to better understand what's going on before throwing money at the "problem".

The vendor's "modem" brings the Internet into your house. It presents as a single Ethernet port and only one IP address. Certainly not near enough for most families : -)

So one connects the modem to a router (with a single Ethernet cable). The router;

• Offers multiple Ethernet ports (usually four or eight).
• Additional IP addresses and IP address management tools (NAT, DHCP).
• "All in one" routers also offer wireless/WiFi.

Sounds like your vendor has provided you with a modem/router combo unit? If so then we'll need to talk more about connecting routers to routers later.

Where's your vendor's equipment located? Ideally central to the house. More typical is some far corner of the house behind a TV under a pile of junk. At a bare minimum get it off of the floor and move it out a little.

Now grab your best laptop, connect it directly to your vendor's modem/router with a short length of Ethernet and run an Internet speed test. You should see the 100 Mbps that you are paying for. If not then you are going to have to dig deeper.

(Make sure your network is quiescent while testing. You can't be streaming TV while running speed tests : -)

Staying in the same room as your modem/router connect at 5 GHz and run your speed test. It should also clock in at something like 100 Mbps.

Now connect at 2.4 GHz and run your test. It might clock in at something less than 100 Mbps. Loosely speaking 5 GHz goes faster and 2.4 GHz goes further. As you run your tests from different vantage points around the house you will start building a "sense" for what works best where.

Also consider loading one of those free "WiFi Analyzers" onto your laptop. It will show you WiFi signal levels for both bands as you walk around the house. (In general you will see signal levels drop as you move further from the modem/router.) You may also see some "competition", perhaps from a neighbor's router.

Your approach will be dependent on what you learn, loosely speaking;

• You see strong neighbor presence on your channel; reconfigure your modem/router to use a different channel.
• Overall things are just slightly weak; maybe a new router with a reputation for better wireless range would help? Or maybe just moving it up and out from the corner? Talk with your Internet provider, sometimes they will simply upgrade your equipment to something more current.
• Just one corner of the house really sucks; add a wired access point or range extender to your network.
• Some areas work well but multiple "corners" of the house really suck; "mesh" is just a fancy word for multiple APs and extenders that auto configure.

Until then my bias is towards Asus because I love their built in traffic monitor. It can help some when trying to better understand issues like this.

Thank you so much for your explanation!

2 months ago I didn't even know the difference between a modem and a router.
So I tackled the first point already, I ordered a new modem yesterday from my provider, I'm installing it right now and it is indeed a modem/router combo. We didn't have one with 5 GHz before.

Right now the old modem is setup in my office, which isn't exactly in the center of the house, but I'm moving the new modem to the hallway, which is exactly in the center.
So I will first do some speed tests, like you said, in the next couple of days and see how that ends up.

I'll post the results here, but thanks again for all the information, I really appreciate it. Because this whole network thing and all the different network possibilities and information about them are too much to get my head around. I've read a few similar topics on the forum here, but every situation is slightly different.

Anyhow, I've read about the 2,4 GHz issue with the Asus 86U so last one I was looking at was the 68U... and I was also thinking about a Ubiquiti UniFi Security Gateway and a Ubiquiti UniFi AP-AC-LITE access point combo, but i'll try to let it go for now.

 

[Klueless]

Hopefully your new (and "FREE" : -) modem/router will take care of many/most of your issues. Most certainly the 5 GHz band will alleviate some of the congestion you were seeing on the single 2.4 GHz band (wow, that was some old equipment you had!)

Depending on what you learn over the next couple of days you might be able to get off really cheap!

BTW I've also read a few negatives on the 86U dropping 2.4 GHz. There are also many who report no problems. Myself, I have two 86Us. One has been rock solid and the other did indeed drop 2.4 GHz. Under "pro settings" I turned off and on 2.4 then rebooted. It was probably just a lucky coincidence but it's been rock solid ever since (about 3 mos now).

 

[Dave Parker]

No problem here with 86U on either 2.4 or 5g. Around 2 month since I got it.

 

[Gryphken]

Ok I couldn't wait so I did a couple of speed test right after I setup the new modem.

For some reason most devices are able to find the 5GHz and it shows as the best signal (full 5 bars), but it seems very unstable. My PS4 can't connect to it, while it's just 2m/6,5ft away from the new modem and our smart tv can connect to it, but Netflix lost connection 2 times in a row while just browsing true the movies. Never had to many disconnections with the old modem before, so at the moment I'll keep everything on the 2.4 band.

But the 2.4 seems to work just fine, great even.
Below some tests around the house on the 2.4 GHz band.

Old speed > New speed

Wired
Download: 45 > 78 Mbps
Upload: 14 > 17

Wifi ground floor (where the modem is located)
Best spot Download: 24 > 52
Worst spot Download: 15 > 25
Upload: 12 > 15

Wifi upper floor
Best spot Download: 23 > 49
Worst spot Download: 14 > 24
Upload: 9 > 14

So in most areas the speed on the 2.4 almoste doubled. But that was with only one device connected. And I'm still not hitting the 100Mbps.
What do you guys think?

Still interested in that 86U tho, not sure if it will/can improve the connection?

(wow, that was some old equipment you had!)

It was ancient, 10y at least. So it was time for an upgrade.

 

[Klueless]

Wow ... progress!

• It's a bit disconcerting that wired speed is only 80% of what you pay for. Have you another wired device that you can double check with? Pending that you might ask your provider why 80 instead of the full 100?
  • What upload speed do you pay for?
• I wouldn't expect to hit the full 100 over 2.4 GHz. (IMO 50 to 75 Mbps is typical and, don't forget, you need a good client as well as a good "server" ; -)
• I would expect to hit the full 100 over 5 GHz (in the better areas).
• I'm pleasantly surprised that upstairs speeds are nearly as good as your downstairs speeds over 2.4 GHz.
• Based on what you said about 5 GHz I think I'd call my provider.

Looking forward to your next update. Hopefully your provider can get you at full speed (over wired) and can get 5 GHz working reliably.

 

[Gryphken]

Yeah some progress was made, I was also pleasantly surprised with the upstairs speeds over 2.4 Ghz band.
After some more testing I couldn't get higher speeds than 80 Mbps wired or 75 Mbps on the 5 Ghz band. So I've contacted my provider today.

So I pay for 100 Mbps with unlimited download volume.
But apparently they can't guarantee that everyone can reach 100 Mbps, it all depends on variable situations. They can only guarantee a min and max speed depending on your situation.
Apparently they work in zones, like how many zones you're away from one of their stations and from there on it depens if you can get the full speed or not.
I appear to be in zone 2 (suburbs) where they can only guarantee speeds between 65 Mbps and 90 Mbps.

I've read on the providers forum that some people in the same zone only reach 65 Mbps max. And there seem to be some people in zone 3 who can't get higher speeds than 45 Mbps.
So maybe I should consider myself lucky? Because my speed nearly doubled with just the new modem.

 

[Klueless]

The cable company in my area was sued some years back for advertising "Speeds up to ..." The courts said it was misleading advertising.

The new company is giving faster than I what subscribe for. I guess they ain't taking no chances.

(IF I was offering a service in zone two I'd offer a 65 Mbps service. You would then be delighted to get 80 : -)

So ... are you sticking with what you have then?

 

[Gryphken]

I'm afraid I'll have to stick with them... for now. 80 isn't that bad is it? :-/
I've read something about the consumer protection service who's suing them and other providers for this type of misleading advertising.
On the other hand, it's right there on their website, "up to a maximum speed of 100 Mbps". But at the moment it's the best subscribtion I can get for $49/month.

I was offering a service I would do the same, promise less and give them more, it's like a win-win situation.

But yeah I'll stick to this untill something better shows up, I didn't even mind my old 45 Mbps speed I had before this new modem, only the wifi was bad.

My only concern now is how to get my connection to my upper floor where my new office/mancave will be. My desktop doesn't support wifi.
I was still thinking about that Asus 86U, to use it as a acces point and range extender or something. But I've read on the forum here some people have better results with the 68U, so maybe it will be sufficient.

And thank you for following up on this post.

 

[Klueless]

I'm afraid I'll have to stick with them

I had kinda meant are you sticking with the vendor's equipment : -)

80 isn't that bad is it?

Unless you're really doing something intense I think 80 is awesome!

My desktop doesn't support wifi.
I was still thinking about that Asus 86U ...

So you're thinking access point because you'd be able to plug your laptop directly into the access point? If you're otherwise happy you could just buy "wireless" for your desktop? A USB stick would be the simplest. Since you're limited to 80-ish anyway you could save a few bucks by getting "N" instead of "AC"

Myself, I think you've made major headway! You've doubled your 2.4 speeds while offloading some of the traffic onto your new 5 GHz service. And, all of that with no out of pocket money (so far). Not bad at all!

BTW: What did your vendor say about your crappy 5 GHz? (It is their equipment after all : -)

 

[Gryphken]

Sorry for the late update, last couple of days were a bit chaotic. :-D

Glad to hear 80 Mbps is good, it's not that I'm doing something really special, but I do need a decent and stable connection for work, because I'm starting to work from home.

Yeah I was thinking about a access point and "repeater" because my desktop has no wifi, and the USB stick is a great idea, I totally forgot about them. But I'm not sure If they're suited for stuff like HD skyping, streaming and for some gaming in my free time. But Maybe I'll try it out, you never know.
But I could also use it for the television to stream Netflix and of course for the Playstation 4.

And sometimes the 2.4 and 5 GHz seem to drop a bit on the upper floor, I guess when they get overloaded, so assigning priorities could be usefull.

Plus my wifes sister comes to live with us for a while, so that will be another user on our network.

But indeed, like you said, major improvements with no money spend so that's great!

About the 5 GHz, the vendor has reset my connection, it could take a week or so to stabilize, but for now only the Playstation 4 has troubles connecting to the 5 Ghz, but we only have a few 5 GHz devices, so the 2.4 is still a bit overloaded at times. And I was thinking about future installations, like maybe some sort of storage feature External HD/HUB/NAS thing that's connected to the home network. But it's not something for right away.

So all that made me think that a router would/could be the right solution. And that Asus 68U (also if it's 6y old) keeps running through my head.

 

[Gryphken]

I was just thinking about something else, which could be a solution without spending money at all.

Is it possible to use that old modem/router I got from my provider as a "acces point or range extender", instead of another router (like that Asus 68U)?
So connecting the old one upstairs to the new one downstairs, or would the modem signals or something interfere with each other?

On the other hand, I've read somewhere that those modem/router combo's are never as good as a "real" router.

 

[Klueless]

About the 5 GHz, the vendor has reset my connection, it could take a week or so to stabilize

Not sure why "resetting" would take a week to stabilize the 5 GHz band?

Is it possible to use that old modem/router I got from my provider as a "acces point or range extender"

That ancient thing that gave you only 2.4 GHz with crappy range? I'm not sure you'd want to.

also use it for the television to stream Netflix and of course for the Playstation 4

You might look at a simple range extender. Cheaper, easier to configure. Use one radio to connect to the router and the other to connect your clients. You can run tests to find the best location but, in general, it would be about "halfway" between your router and the upstairs. If you can get a great 5 GHz signal between the router and the extender use that for the backhaul; it would relieve some of the congestion you're seeing on the 2.4 GHz band.

 

[Gryphken]

Not sure why "resetting" would take a week to stabilize the 5 GHz band?

Beats me, that's just what they said, something about the speed could fluctuate a little, but havn't noticed a thing.

That ancient thing that gave you only 2.4 GHz with crappy range? I'm not sure you'd want to.

You might look at a simple range extender. Cheaper, easier to configure. Use one radio to connect to the router and the other to connect your clients. You can run tests to find the best location but, in general, it would be about "halfway" between your router and the upstairs. If you can get a great 5 GHz signal between the router and the extender use that for the backhaul; it would relieve some of the congestion you're seeing on the 2.4 GHz band.

I'm renovating some bits of my new office atm. And about the old modem/router, I just thought, well most devices I own only support the 2.4 GHz. But I mostly need an acces point for my desktop, so the old router would just be a free solution for now, untill I get newer hardware wich also support the 5 GHz (only have like 3 devices atm that support 5GHz).
I did ordered the Asus 68U and a range extender with a USB stick and I'm planning to try all 3 solutions to see whats best.
But that's for next week, have to finish the renovation first.

 

[Klueless]

about the old modem/router, I just thought, well most devices I own only support the 2.4 GHz. But I mostly need an acces point for my desktop, so the old router would just be a free solution for now

It's always fun to try a few things not to mention a great way to learn some things. Nothing ventured nothing gained.

The USB stick we're talking about is simply a wireless client for your desktop. It simply connects to your wireless router (or access point). Based on your earlier tests you should see about 25 to 50 Mbps if you connect to your new ISP router.

Now regarding using your old ISP router, the best you saw from the best locations was about 25 Mbps so that would also be best case for using it as an access point.

But you weren't running cables so you would be configuring it as a single band wireless repeater? That would "half" your best case speeds to about 12 Mbps.

At any rate, that's my prediction. Let me know if I was close.