Cable IPTV disappointing compared to VDSL

[g121]

I've had 50Mdown/8Mup VDSL for several years. I'm happy, it meets my Internet & IPTV & streaming needs. We're only a 2 person household w/ no gamers.

However .. Bell is decommissioning my landline & I can't get a clear answer if Dryloop would be an option going forward.

As I have a strong preference of staying with my Teksavvy TPIA (Third Party Internet Access), I've had 100Mdown/30Mup cable installed.

I have both Cable & VDSL running concurrently for the moment.

So while my Cable Down/Up speeds are per spec, why is IPTV, even still images, better & of more consistent quality on my 50M VDSL than my 100M Cable? The quality of my cable IPTV seems to fluctuate up&down while I'm watching whereas VDSL is better & more consistent.

I'm running IPTV via the Teksavvy TekTV app. I can run on both Firestick 4K & Chromecast for Google TV.

Here's my cable modem/router HITRON CODA-4680 stats (note: the installers have already put in a brand new thicker cable to improve my stats)

https://imgur.com/a/Hh4BZJV

Here's a detailed VDSL (SmartRG SR516AC) vs Cable (HITRON CODA-4680) stats comparison. (collection done while ethernet connected, 7am with no other inhouse activity)
https://i.postimg.cc/J7SL6X39/VDSL-vs-Cable-compare.jpg

Do the router & comparison stats give any hints on why the cable IPTV isn't as good as the VDSL? If there, can these issues be fixed?

I understand VDSL is a a pseudo direct connection whereas cable is a shared service .. but i have to believe one can get better cable IPTV than i'm currently getting.

All ideas, considerations welcome .. Thanks in advance.

 

[ddaenen1]

Well, I am also on cable (1000/40) and i had some issues in the past with unstable connections. I have a couple of questions:

- Did the ISP run the cable all the way into the house to the point where your modem/router is?
- Have they checked signal strength? (that was one of the issues due to a damaged coax)
- Is your TV connected to the internet through UTP cable or wifi?

 

[g121]

Well, I am also on cable (1000/40) and i had some issues in the past with unstable connections. I have a couple of questions:

- Did the ISP run the cable all the way into the house to the point where your modem/router is?
- Have they checked signal strength? (that was one of the issues due to a damaged coax)
- Is your TV connected to the internet through UTP cable or wifi?

hi ddaenen1 ,

re: - Did the ISP run the cable all the way into the house to the point where your modem/router is?
yes , brand new thicker cable from Tap ( i think that's what it's called) to the gray box on side of my house & then brand new cable from gray box up to my 2nd floor bedroom.

re: - Have they checked signal strength? (that was one of the issues due to a damaged coax)
isn't my signal strength shown in the Hitron stats i posted above?
my original stats were showing Signal Strength (dBmV) of -7's thru -15's; this is why they replaced with a new thicker cable to give the new Signal Strength (dBmV) of -2's thru 4's;

re: - Is your TV connected to the internet through UTP cable or wifi?
My TV is connected via WiFi .. but my TV was also on WiFi when using VDSL .. so it's an apples-to-apples comparison and my 50M VDSL provided a more consistent visual with better clarity/crispness than my 100M Cable. While I normally run my TV WiFi connection thru my Asus RT-AC86U router, I've also tried the TV connecting via WiFi to the Cable Hitron. While I normally connect via 5G, I've also tried 2.4G. and i've compared on both my Chromecast for Google TV and my Firestick 4K. In all cases, the VDSL consistently has crisper clarity. The cable can match the VDSL clarity at times but it visually wavers whereas the VDSL stays pretty much consistent.

 

[drinkingbird]

I've had 50Mdown/8Mup VDSL for several years. I'm happy, it meets my Internet & IPTV & streaming needs. We're only a 2 person household w/ no gamers.

However .. Bell is decommissioning my landline & I can't get a clear answer if Dryloop would be an option going forward.

As I have a strong preference of staying with my Teksavvy TPIA (Third Party Internet Access), I've had 100Mdown/30Mup cable installed.

I have both Cable & VDSL running concurrently for the moment.

So while my Cable Down/Up speeds are per spec, why is IPTV, even still images, better & of more consistent quality on my 50M VDSL than my 100M Cable? The quality of my cable IPTV seems to fluctuate up&down while I'm watching whereas VDSL is better & more consistent.

I'm running IPTV via the Teksavvy TekTV app. I can run on both Firestick 4K & Chromecast for Google TV.

Here's my cable modem/router HITRON CODA-4680 stats (note: the installers have already put in a brand new thicker cable to improve my stats)

https://imgur.com/a/Hh4BZJV

Here's a detailed VDSL (SmartRG SR516AC) vs Cable (HITRON CODA-4680) stats comparison. (collection done while ethernet connected, 7am with no other inhouse activity)
https://i.postimg.cc/J7SL6X39/VDSL-vs-Cable-compare.jpg

Do the router & comparison stats give any hints on why the cable IPTV isn't as good as the VDSL? If there, can these issues be fixed?

I understand VDSL is a a pseudo direct connection whereas cable is a shared service .. but i have to believe one can get better cable IPTV than i'm currently getting.

All ideas, considerations welcome .. Thanks in advance.

Looks like the MTU on your cable is lower so you should get that set correctly in the Asus to prevent fragmentation. But other than that the stats on your cable connection look better. But who knows, maybe they have a worse route to the IPTV provider via cable. The ISP is the same for both?

 

[g121]

Looks like the MTU on your cable is lower so you should get that set correctly in the Asus to prevent fragmentation. But other than that the stats on your cable connection look better. But who knows, maybe they have a worse route to the IPTV provider via cable. The ISP is the same for both?

hi drinkingbird ..

re: Looks like the MTU on your cable is lower
the only MTU'ish variable i see in my VDSL-to-Cable comparison is the TCPinfo.PMTU variable & it's showing 1500 for both my VDSL & Cable .. what am i missing?

yes, Teksavvy is my ISP for both my VDSL & Cable .. BUT .. Teksavvy is a TPIA so the last mile for VDSL is Bell & the last mile for Cable is Rogers.

 

[drinkingbird]

hi drinkingbird ..

re: Looks like the MTU on your cable is lower
the only MTU'ish variable i see in my VDSL-to-Cable comparison is the TCPinfo.PMTU variable & it's showing 1500 for both my VDSL & Cable .. what am i missing?

yes, Teksavvy is my ISP for both my VDSL & Cable .. BUT .. Teksavvy is a TPIA so the last mile for VDSL is Bell & the last mile for Cable is Rogers.

The reported MSS of 1440 vs 1460 is a clue that your MTU on cable is lower.

In theory it should work fine with fragmentation but it is one thing to check.

My guess is it is something in their router. Can you run it in bridge (modem) mode and use your Asus only? Or replace it outright with a plain modem?

 

[g121]

The reported MSS of 1440 vs 1460 is a clue that your MTU on cable is lower.

In theory it should work fine with fragmentation but it is one thing to check.

My guess is it is something in their router. Can you run it in bridge (modem) mode and use your Asus only? Or replace it outright with a plain modem?

hi drinkingbird ..

I flipped the cable modem/router into Bridge mode (ie. disable Residential Gateway Function) .. no material difference in IPTV/image quality.

 

[drinkingbird]

hi drinkingbird ..

I flipped the cable modem/router into Bridge mode (ie. disable Residential Gateway Function) .. no material difference in IPTV/image quality.

Well either their network is having varying performance/packet loss issues or for some reason the cable route to your IPTV provider is more congested/problematic than the DSL route.

The test you did makes it look like the cable is better but that is only to the test server, the IPTV provider could be totally different. You could try running a ping to the IPTV server for like 30 mins and see if there are drops or latency fluctuations etc.

 

[coxhaus]

I can tell you my cable is very nice on my 4K TV to my 85-inch screen, but I stream off the internet. I have had cable TV and DirectTv none of them could match it. They are downgraded resolutions to conserve bandwidth.

 

[sfx2000]

Some providers do transcoding to the last mile - I see this most often on 4G/5G networks...

 

[drinkingbird]

I can tell you my cable is very nice on my 4K TV to my 85-inch screen, but I stream off the internet. I have had cable TV and DirectTv none of them could match it. They are downgraded resolutions to conserve bandwidth.

OP is steaming too. Over two different internet connections.

 

[drinkingbird]

Some providers do transcoding to the last mile - I see this most often on 4G/5G networks...

All the traditional cable operators are, it looks awful compared to FIOS and you can pull the bitrates and see cable is like 1/4 that of FIOS

But OP is streaming so there should be no difference.

 

[sfx2000]

All the traditional cable operators are, it looks awful compared to FIOS and you can pull the bitrates and see cable is like 1/4 that of FIOS

But OP is streaming so there should be no difference.

Even streaming over the top... carriers do this for "optimization" - sometimes they screw down the codecs enough that the end-result isn't very good...

Best thing is to have a reference clip up in the cloud - dropbox or other, and stream it from there... reference clip being a 4K H264 perhaps...

If there is a transcoder in the middle, one should see the impact..

if one has Kodi or similar, one should be able to see the endpoint codecs at play...

 

[sfx2000]

I have had cable TV and DirectTv none of them could match it. They are downgraded resolutions to conserve bandwidth.

Yeah, I have seen this with DirecTV - looking at OTA reception for local channels vs. what I get off DTV's box - it's very noticeable for 720P/1080i... 4K on DTV, I can't really talk to as I don't think my dish/receiver can actually do it...

 

[drinkingbird]

Even streaming over the top... carriers do this for "optimization" - sometimes they screw down the codecs enough that the end-result isn't very good...

Best thing is to have a reference clip up in the cloud - dropbox or other, and stream it from there... reference clip being a 4K H264 perhaps...

If there is a transcoder in the middle, one should see the impact..

if one has Kodi or similar, one should be able to see the endpoint codecs at play...

I guess it is possible but I've only ever seen that on unlimited wireless plans, never on wired home internet. Even FWA isn't doing it that I've seen. The cost to deploy that infra doesn't seem like it would outweigh any benefit on wired service. Would be especially weird if they were doing it on cable but not DSL.

Guess the OP could try doing it over a VPN to see. Maybe different ISPs in different countries are more desperate for bandwidth.

 

[drinkingbird]

Yeah, I have seen this with DirecTV - looking at OTA reception for local channels vs. what I get off DTV's box - it's very noticeable for 720P/1080i... 4K on DTV, I can't really talk to as I don't think my dish/receiver can actually do it...

I thought directv used an antenna for local channels (attached to the dish) or did they finally scrap that idea? I know they have a streaming service where you can get local channels, a family member had it, but the price got outrageous then they totally stopped offering it.

I have a 10 ish year old 1080P plasma, OTA comes in at 1080i but that could be a limitation of the digital tuner in the TV. Still looks 10x better than the same channels on cable, and is on par with FIOS from what I've seen.

 

[sfx2000]

I thought directv used an antenna for local channels (attached to the dish) or did they finally scrap that idea? I know they have a streaming service where you can get local channels, a family member had it, but the price got outrageous then they totally stopped offering it.

they did away with that a long time ago... locals come over the dish these days

 

[drinkingbird]

they did away with that a long time ago... locals come over the dish these days

Interesting, I wonder if it is actually streaming it via data over the dish? The satellite bandwidth it would take to have every major markets local channels broadcast constantly seems like it would be an issue. Then again, that's the whole reason for the compression I guess.

I remember digital satellite used to be by far the best picture quality, now it seems to have gone the other way. Only so much bandwidth to play with and they want to squeeze as much as they can (including internet) in. Same game the cable companies have to play, but a lot less room to play that game.

 

[g121]

I guess it is possible but I've only ever seen that on unlimited wireless plans, never on wired home internet. Even FWA isn't doing it that I've seen. The cost to deploy that infra doesn't seem like it would outweigh any benefit on wired service. Would be especially weird if they were doing it on cable but not DSL.

Guess the OP could try doing it over a VPN to see. Maybe different ISPs in different countries are more desperate for bandwidth.

hi drinkingbird ..

re: Guess the OP could try doing it over a VPN to see.
that's not an option ..
here in Canada, one has to be directly connected to one's ISP when using that ISPs IPTV service. so even though everything normally goes thru my Asus router which i run Surfshark VPN on, my Chromecast & Firestick must be directed to use the WAN, not the VPN .. but this wasn't an issue the last 2+ years while using VDSL.

Furthermore, video/images on my Chrome browser, which does goes thru my router VPN, also has less clarity/richness on cable than when i was on VDSL.

 

[sfx2000]

Interesting, I wonder if it is actually streaming it via data over the dish? The satellite bandwidth it would take to have every major markets local channels broadcast constantly seems like it would be an issue. Then again, that's the whole reason for the compression I guess.

Yes, it is over the dish for locals - how they do it, not for us to understand I suppose...

Going A/B from OTA to DTV - one can see the difference, and DTV inserts ads during the program breaks... which is a key tell on what they're doing...