connecting two buildings and barbeque

[jaro.filip]

I would like to ask for opinions and help on how to connect two buildings. The picture MAP in attachements will give you a better idea.

I have an internet access in the Building B. It is 25Mbps line served by WiFi router Speedport Entry 2. I need to get an internet access to the barbeque (BBQ) and Building A.

I have a direct line of sight:
from Building B to the Building A
from Building B to the south-east corner in front of Building A
from Building B to the barbeque.
I do not have a direct line of sight from building A to the bargeque due to tall trees.

I have at disposal three WiFi routers ZTE H108NS + one WiFi router ZTE H108L + one access point TP Link TL-WA701ND.

My best guess is a cable connection with a set of routers in series. First from Speedport Entry 2 router in Building A to the BBQ around the western border, where I can place router ZTE H108L at the barbeque area. From this router another cable to Building A where I can place another two routers ZTE H108NS and the access point in series, one on each floor. The picture WiFi shows what I intend to do. Is this setup correct?

I am not an engineer, but with some guidance I can set up those devices. My question is whether this setting is correct. I will be glad for your opinions.

My second thought is a directional wireless antennae from Building B to the area in front of Building A and from there another one facing the building. Although this is much cleaner solution, I am not a fan of this, because
a) I do not posses such aerials and I want to use devices already available
b) I will not get a signal inside the target Building A, and
c) the signal at the BBQ is questionable.
Also by my experience any weather occurrence will weaken the signal.

Thanks for help.

 

[System Error Message]

how far apart are the buildings?
There are many ways to connect them, it depends on your budget but regardless of the method there will be some purchasing.

I suggest doing some heat routing from your computers to your BBQ. With the combined heat of some watts (preferably 1KW or more) you can cook things. Apparently a high end PC with a single GPU can heat pizza.

 

[jaro.filip]

buildings are about 60 yards apart, barbeque is in the middle.
Of course visiting a shop will be necessary, but 300ft cable with 15 connectors cost less than a single aerial.
I am not fan of WiFi in this case. Sleeping under an aerial capable of heating my lunch is not healthy. I prefer low output localized where needed.
Can you tell whether the cable LAN-WAN setup I draw will work?

 

[degrub]

I would like to ask for opinions and help on how to connect two buildings. The picture MAP in attachements will give you a better idea.

I have an internet access in the Building B. It is 25Mbps line served by WiFi router Speedport Entry 2. I need to get an internet access to the barbeque (BBQ) and Building A.

I have a direct line of sight:
from Building B to the Building A
from Building B to the south-east corner in front of Building A
from Building B to the barbeque.
I do not have a direct line of sight from building A to the bargeque due to tall trees.

I have at disposal three WiFi routers ZTE H108NS + one WiFi router ZTE H108L + one access point TP Link TL-WA701ND.

My best guess is a cable connection with a set of routers in series. First from Speedport Entry 2 router in Building A to the BBQ around the western border, where I can place router ZTE H108L at the barbeque area. From this router another cable to Building A where I can place another two routers ZTE H108NS and the access point in series, one on each floor. The picture WiFi shows what I intend to do. Is this setup correct?

I am not an engineer, but with some guidance I can set up those devices. My question is whether this setting is correct. I will be glad for your opinions.

My second thought is a directional wireless antennae from Building B to the area in front of Building A and from there another one facing the building. Although this is much cleaner solution, I am not a fan of this, because
a) I do not posses such aerials and I want to use devices already available
b) I will not get a signal inside the target Building A, and
c) the signal at the BBQ is questionable.
Also by my experience any weather occurrence will weaken the signal.

Thanks for help.

Between the buildings, either 1) point to point fiber optic ethernet extension, 2) cat 6 cable ethernet extension properly grounded with actiontec bonded moca 2 modems, 3) point to point wireless Ubiquiti.
All the cables will need to be weatherproof direct burial.

Second outside access point at building B under eave for BBQ area unless it is covered and you run a similar cable from B and install AP there.

Everything requires proper grounding and bonding per NEC code guidance to protect against ground loops and reduce chance of lightning hit.

Get a pro to design and install the system at least.

 

[jaro.filip]

Hi, thanks for your advice. I asked a technician for help because I am not an engineer. I live in a small village by the sea, quite far from nearest town. When the technician told me the price just to come and assess the situation I thanked him and said good bye. So I am going to do this by myself.
Cable is accounted for (cat 6 for outdoor use by Konig) and all routers will be indoors.
What I do not know is how to set the WAN network on my LAN. Are my settings correct? For some reason I cannot make it work.

 

[degrub]

Hi, thanks for your advice. I asked a technician for help because I am not an engineer. I live in a small village by the sea, quite far from nearest town. When the technician told me the price just to come and assess the situation I thanked him and said good bye. So I am going to do this by myself.
Cable is accounted for (cat 6 for outdoor use by Konig) and all routers will be indoors.
What I do not know is how to set the WAN network on my LAN. Are my settings correct? For some reason I cannot make it work.

Is this already installed or is all the equipment at the termination modem ?
If not installed, start with the modem and check that you can connect to internet. If yes, then move to the next router in the chain. And so forth.

So from which device can you access the internet by a wired connection and where does it fail ?

 

[jaro.filip]

Part of the diagram is already installed and working:
1. the main router on the top of the picture is connected to the internet and working
2. additional router connected as bridge with disabled DHCP, IP 192.168.1.60 on the same mask 255.255.255.0 is connected and working. (it is the one on the left side of the picture)

I am stuck at the other branch, where I want to create a WAN and connect more routers in series.
I tried to install a WAN router but I failed. I could not configure it to IP 192.168.2.1 because it responded that IP must be within the range of the primary main router. After this I tried to connect it as a bridge with the same settings as the other one which is already working but for some reason it did not work. My intention is however to create a "separate" network running under the LAN, so I aim at creating WAN and then bridge this to other routers. I concentrate now on how to create a WAN

 

[degrub]

Part of the diagram is already installed and working:
1. the main router on the top of the picture is connected to the internet and working
2. additional router connected as bridge with disabled DHCP, IP 192.168.1.60 on the same mask 255.255.255.0 is connected and working. (it is the one on the left side of the picture)

I am stuck at the other branch, where I want to create a WAN and connect more routers in series.
I tried to install a WAN router but I failed. I could not configure it to IP 192.168.2.1 because it responded that IP must be within the range of the primary main router. After this I tried to connect it as a bridge with the same settings as the other one which is already working but for some reason it did not work. My intention is however to create a "separate" network running under the LAN, so I aim at creating WAN and then bridge this to other routers. I concentrate now on how to create a WAN

WAN means wide area network, not wireless. I think there may have been a tranlation issue in the manual. The wan port connects to a router above it.
That second router has to have as its wan address an address on the x.x.1.x network. It should get that from the primary or be set as static address. Set it up its lan side with dhcp with an address range for the x.x.2.x addresses. That will be double nat, but if need a different address base, that is pne way to do it.

Otherwise you could try the vlan approach and set each of the secondary routers up as access points only (use the lan port, not the wan port to connect to the router) with membership in a vlan that uses x.x.2.x for its dhcp range.

 

[sfx2000]

Everything requires proper grounding and bonding per NEC code guidance to protect against ground loops and reduce chance of lightning hit.

Get a pro to design and install the system at least.

Grounding is a huge concern - there can be enough ground potential difference between out-buildings to cause severe shock unless everything is bound to a common earth ground...

Most Telcom/Network techs have the gear to check for this - a lot of electricians might shy away as Ethernet/Telcom is all low voltage to them...

 

[jaro.filip]

Hi Degrub,
I intend to create a cable connection between the routers on each floor. The house is made of stone and concrete+metal so it needs a router on each floor and cabling in-between. End device (phone/tablet/notebook) will be connected via WiFi. Naturally I want my house and BBQ to operate on the same SSID/password, but separate from the source LAN.
If you are questioning why, it is because I am going to share the line with my neighbor. To get my own line, I would have to pay the provider for cabling from the street, which they estimated at 400 bucks :/ Instead I agreed with my neighbor to share his connection.
I don`t know how is VLAN working, but I believe WAN is the best solution here, right?

One of the issues is that these routers don`t have a separate WAN port. There is only a "DSL in" port and four LAN ports. However in router settings I can see that WAN is available for configuration.
This configuration is causing me troubles
First I configured the WAN connection tab as seen on H108L WAN01.jpg. The only thing I am not sure is the VPI/VCI. I simply used the same value as on the bridged router already working. In the section "Port binding" I have configured the internet and WAN ports, pictures H108L WAN01-Internet port and H108L WAN01-WAN port. Into the LAN 1 goes the cable from the main Speedport 2i router and from the LAN 2 I will go to the next router in series. So far, so good. everything works. Then comes the LAN tab as seen on H108L WAN02.jpg and here I get into problems.
Main speedport 2i router is at IP 192.168.1.1 .
First "WAN" router which we are setting up is by default at 192.168.1.254.
Do you know how to configure the WAN here? I can`t figure it out.

 

[jaro.filip]

Hi sfx2000, thanks for the advice. Duly noted. I will be working at the grounding. For now I hope to find out with your help how to configure the routers

 

[jaro.filip]

here are the pictures of "Port binding" I have configured the internet and WAN ports, pictures H108L WAN01-Internet port and H108L WAN01-WAN port. Into the LAN 1 goes the cable from the main Speedport 2i router and from the LAN 2 I will go to the next router in series.

 

[degrub]

Hi Degrub,
I intend to create a cable connection between the routers on each floor. The house is made of stone and concrete+metal so it needs a router on each floor and cabling in-between. End device (phone/tablet/notebook) will be connected via WiFi. Naturally I want my house and BBQ to operate on the same SSID/password, but separate from the source LAN.
If you are questioning why, it is because I am going to share the line with my neighbor. To get my own line, I would have to pay the provider for cabling from the street, which they estimated at 400 bucks :/ Instead I agreed with my neighbor to share his connection.
I don`t know how is VLAN working, but I believe WAN is the best solution here, right?

One of the issues is that these routers don`t have a separate WAN port. There is only a "DSL in" port and four LAN ports. However in router settings I can see that WAN is available for configuration.
This configuration is causing me troubles
First I configured the WAN connection tab as seen on H108L WAN01.jpg. The only thing I am not sure is the VPI/VCI. I simply used the same value as on the bridged router already working. In the section "Port binding" I have configured the internet and WAN ports, pictures H108L WAN01-Internet port and H108L WAN01-WAN port. Into the LAN 1 goes the cable from the main Speedport 2i router and from the LAN 2 I will go to the next router in series. So far, so good. everything works. Then comes the LAN tab as seen on H108L WAN02.jpg and here I get into problems.
Main speedport 2i router is at IP 192.168.1.1 .
First "WAN" router which we are setting up is by default at 192.168.1.254.
Do you know how to configure the WAN here? I can`t figure it out.

i think you need to change PPOE to gateway if that is available, otherwise find a way to put the second level router in gateway mode. The dhcp note - you might have to enable secondary tcpip address to get x.x.2.x to work. i don't understand what that configuration page is saying.

You should not need a "router" on each floor, just an access point. this can be one of your routers with the routing function turned off and only the wireless active. Once you get your x.x.2.x router working, assign a static address to each of the other "router" that are serving as access points.

 

[coxhaus]

Just looking at your wifi diagram it looks like you are running 1 layer 2 network with 2 layer 3 networks. Your internet router only knows about 1 layer 3 network. This is a problem. DHCP is a problem for the second network.
Unless your internet router will allow a secondary network IP address it is not going to work. There is no default gateway or default route for the second layer 3 network. You will need to run a second router or layer 3 switch. If setup to run only 1 layer 3 network it should work. This is assuming your layer 1 is all working.

PS
Sorry I forgot the NOT. It is fixed now.

 

[jaro.filip]

Hi degrub,
after hours of work without success, I tried to configure all routers into a bridge mode with WiFi, turning them into access points where a sole DHCP server is Speedport 2i. This worked. It is not what I want, but it made me feel better Small victory helping to keep me sane
I checked the WAN options before and I should have told you about the options. It may be important. It allows these five connection types: PPPoE / PPPoA / Static / DHCP / Bridge Connection.
Right now it is in bridge mode and this works, which indicates to me that the device is likely working correctly and it is me who is failing to configure it as WAN To enable the second layer should I chose the a) DHCP or b) Static and asign a static IP on main Speedport router?

Hi Coxhaus,
you are too wise for me. I read you article three times and hopefully now I understand it. As I wrote earlier in this post, right now there is one internet main router (Speedport 2i) with sole DHCP and the rest is running as access points. I believe this is by your terms 1 layer 6 networks, correct?
In the morning I will try to configure again the WAN, which if I understand you correctly is what you meant by "2 layer 3 network".

I will keep you informed in the morning

 

[coxhaus]

To run a second network will require a layer 3 device like a router or such. To use a consumer router at layer 3 you will need to use the WAN and LAN connections so the router will route at layer 3. If you only use the LAN connections on a consumer router it is going to run at layer 2 not layer 3. Layer 3 is what you need to be able to route the second network.

PS
If your internet router supports VLANs with separate IP network addresses you could run it that way. Divide your network into separate VLANs with your 2 IP network addresses.

 

[jaro.filip]

Hi Coxhaus, I have hard time to understand you. Where is the 3rd layer? First layer is the main internet router with one other router connected as an access point. A second layer is the WAN router (which I don't know how to configure) with three more access points. I am a laymen and I called this second layer. Am i wrong?

 

[coxhaus]

The layers I am referring to are OSI networking layers. Layer 1 is physical. Layer 2 is your MAC and switch layer. Layer 3 is the IP layer.

I am giving you general info based on your diagram so you can correct it. There are multiple ways to make this work with different equipment.

 

[sfx2000]

Hi sfx2000, thanks for the advice. Duly noted. I will be working at the grounding. For now I hope to find out with your help how to configure the routers

Trenching ethernet at 60 yards (55 Meters for the metric folks) - well within ethernet range... the Router/AP's - can either use them as routers, or just set them up as AP's depending on your needs/requirements (e.g. is the second building a Rental?, then maybe VLAN a Router there, otherwise just make it an AP)

 

[degrub]

To run a second network will require a layer 3 device like a router or such. To use a consumer router at layer 3 you will need to use the WAN and LAN connections so the router will route at layer 3. If you only use the LAN connections on a consumer router it is going to run at layer 2 not layer 3. Layer 3 is what you need to be able to route the second network.

PS
If your internet router supports VLANs with separate IP network addresses you could run it that way. Divide your network into separate VLANs with your 2 IP network addresses.

thread on vlans
http://www.snbforums.com/threads/vlan-how-to-segmenting-a-small-lan.1165/unread