First Peek At Wi-Fi 6: ASUS RT-AX88U & NETGEAR RAX80

  • ATTENTION! As of November 1, 2020, you are not able to reply to threads 6 months after the thread is opened if there are more than 500 posts in the thread.
    Threads will not be locked, so posts may still be edited by their authors.
    Just start a new thread on the topic to post if you get an error message when trying to reply to a thread.

sfx2000

Part of the Furniture
Broadcom supports CPU throttling/frequency scaling on the BCM4908. This could make a difference depending on whether or not this is enabled by either manufacturer. Personally I would prefer it to not do any scaling, since networking can be very latency-sensitive.

I have no problem with scaling....

Code:
$ sysctl dev.cpu.0.freq_levels 
dev.cpu.0.freq_levels: 2100/8 1800/0 1600/0 1400/0

I suspect that Broadcom has tuned the SDK appropriately
 

RMerlin

Asuswrt-Merlin dev
I suspect that Broadcom has tuned the SDK appropriately

When it comes to Broadcom, I've learned long ago to never take anything for granted. They've made more than a few brain-damaged decisions over the years for their router platform.
 

wye

New Around Here
There is no "pick" at this time other than my recommendation to not buy any draft 11ax product right now.
Tim, I'm very happy you've upgraded your test methods. Thank you for that. I'm very grateful for your efforts.

Maybe there is something to improve about the attitude as well. Its very easy to complain but when you do it you make people look down upon you - you are begging for their help. Maintain a balance, don't go into extremes.
You've been "not-recommending" AC routers for the last decade. Do you finally recommend them, since you have a new "enemy"? brutal /sarcasm

Many of us are old aged around here, I hope we can use our experience as drivers of innovation and change instead of complaining about the problems of new technology. How would you do it better, Tim?

Again, thanks for your efforts.
 
Last edited:

RMerlin

Asuswrt-Merlin dev
You've been "not-recommending" AC routers for the last decade. Do you finally recommend them, since you have a new "enemy"? brutal /sarcasm

That is not what I have seen. I recall Tim recommended against AC routers back when there were no clients available yet to connect to them. He's been recommending AC routers for many years now. A few years ago he even wrote an article on how he observed than a 802.11ac router connecting to 802.11N clients showed some slight performance improvements.

Today, 802.11AX is in the same situation. You can't recommend people to buy a router a) based on a draft technology, b) with no client available to connect to it using that new technology, and c) sold at a high premium.
 

sfx2000

Part of the Furniture
I agree - I've been part of the community here since the 802.11 a/b/g days - and having gone thru the "draft" 802.11n, and subsequent generations of WiFi - it's ok to wait...

Getting an 11ax capable Router/AP now - keep in mind that all your clients are going to be "legacy" - some more than others...

In 2019 - we see some 11ax capable clients out there, mostly as part of the smartphone vendor's chipsets, and they'll work fine with 11n/11ac AP's - and that won't be until likely 2nd quarter 2019...

I'll wait a bit... when we get an iPhone that has 11ax - then I might upgrade my AP's...
 

wye

New Around Here
You can't reasonably expect all new routers to upgrade to a new technology precisely at the same time as all clients.
Its not perfect, but there are a few ways to deal with this: one way would be to complain about the problems.
Another way is to be able to see the bright side: someone has to make the first step, and I applaud those that have the courage to do it(manufacturers and customers). Because they are the one that move this world forward, not the ney-sayers.
 

avtella

Very Senior Member
Well with bleeding edge WiFi products, in most cases you are buying a beta product which may have major firmware issues, because products were rushed and to top it off no clients of the new standard. Mind you these are draft units missing features like uplink MU-MIMO and whatever may be added to the final spec. In the one year or so when the first ax clients start to actually show up final draft routers will start showing up, till then you are basically paying extra for an “ac” spec router.

So paying something like double to effectively be a beta tester is not what most people want. Most of these routers take a few months sometimes a year or so to get firmware issues ironed out and on occasion hardware. When people look at reviews and recommendations they expect something that simply works as advertised.

I feel @thiggins is generally on the practical side of things when it comes to recommendations.
 
Last edited:

Leo Fender

New Around Here
Does 80+80 have provision for full-duplex between APs? EG: Split each channel into only a receive or transmit function.

I'm thinking something like Ubiquiti do with airFiber, but much shorter distances using "consumer priced" equipment :D
 

gpz1100

Regular Contributor
I'd love to see ddwrt or xwrt for the rax80. Stock firmware is ... eh. Lacking many features and very plain.
 

RMerlin

Asuswrt-Merlin dev
I'd love to see ddwrt or xwrt for the rax80. Stock firmware is ... eh. Lacking many features and very plain.
Get the Asus then, and you'll get the full, legal, Asuswrt experience.

Sent from my P027 using Tapatalk
 

Leo Fender

New Around Here
Interesting.

Seems like it could be done in software... with sufficient knowledge and effort to wrangle the hardware into a state that allows such hackery.

I may have to rig up some Linux boxes with 2 APs at each end to see how it flows.
 

kamoj

Very Senior Member
The R7800 has quite good storage performance. At least with Voxels FW:
https://www.snbforums.com/threads/r7800-write-speed-usb.33495/#post-444030

Yeah the R7800 in terms of storage performance wasn’t that great, the RAX80 is a pretty strong performer in comparison and USB 3.0 is also a good way to truly test HT160 performance as you can bypass the Ethernet limit. The Broadcom chipset supports 2.5Gb Ethernet but unfortunately the device only has 1 Gb Ethernet ports.

Using my NAS I get around 114 MB/s down and 70-100 MB/s up, downlink being limited by ethernet.

The R7800 possibly could hit similar WiFi speeds but its storage performance isn’t that great and so you would not be able to utilize its HT160 ability to the fullest due to that bottleneck.
 

128bit

Regular Contributor
When it comes to Broadcom, I've learned long ago to never take anything for granted. They've made more than a few brain-damaged decisions over the years for their router platform.
interesting to read discussion on marvel. i have or had the wrt 1900 and 3200. both flashed with dd-wrt. what a disaster when using dd-wrt! linksys never had an os driver that could take advantage of the 3200 mimo capability. it was draining to always look for that next kong/brainslayer build and hope for the best. worse, the interface be it stock or dd-wrt pales when compared to merlin.

this 86u is faster using the stock merlin builds. it's a dream! that said, once spectrum/tw kicked it up to 200 mbps, - i mean WOW! i was fine streaming 4k on 3 tvs concurrently at 50! perhaps u guys have commercial needs which i don't but this 86u box slays the 3200 even with nas - again, home use. moreover, the response from the gurus on this board is 2nd to none!

happy new year folks
 

sfx2000

Part of the Furniture
@thiggins...

HE frames were disabled on both products because they aren't used by 11ac devices and are just another potential source of problems at this point.

While the testing was done with HE disabled, did you get a chance to informally check if their were any association issues with 11ac clients when HE is enabled?

I recall that there were interop issues back in the draft 11n and early 11ac days...
 

RMerlin

Asuswrt-Merlin dev
@thiggins...



While the testing was done with HE disabled, did you get a chance to informally check if their were any association issues with 11ac clients when HE is enabled?

I recall that there were interop issues back in the draft 11n and early 11ac days...

Intel-based clients using driver older than certain revisions are known to have compatibility issues with HE. The 7260 for instance requires driver 18.33.13.4 or newer. Wifi-6 router owners must ensure they have the latest Intel driver available installed.

That's the only case for which I have actual info, dunno about Atheros/Qualcomm/Azurewave/etc...
 

thiggins

Mr. Easy
Staff member
While the testing was done with HE disabled, did you get a chance to informally check if their were any association issues with 11ac clients when HE is enabled?
The only client I tested in this round was the octoScope Pal, which uses the QCA9984. It had no association problems. I have yet to try the Intel AC9260.
 

Sign Up For SNBForums Daily Digest

Get an update of what's new every day delivered to your mailbox. Sign up here!
Top