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First Peek At Wi-Fi 6: ASUS RT-AX88U & NETGEAR RAX80

Discussion in 'Wireless Article Discussions' started by thiggins, Dec 10, 2018.

  1. Sayanux

    Sayanux New Around Here

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    nope but netgear rax120 wpa3 support ...

    without wpa3 useless now
     
  2. thiggins

    thiggins Mr. Easy Staff Member

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    That's the router that is only available by invitation...
     
  3. sfx2000

    sfx2000 Part of the Furniture

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    Sounds good - but something to look at with more formal testing - if I recall correctly, SNB did look at this with clients during the early 802.11ac days... and that had a fair amount of value.
     
  4. RMerlin

    RMerlin Super Moderator

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    WPA3 is what's useless now, as there are no clients supporting it yet. Windows 10 1809 doesn't even support it yet (there are hints that support might appear with 1904, or at least they might start to implement support for it).

    Nothing prevents manufacturers from adding it to their routers at a later date, when they can actually ensure there are no compatibility issues with the clients that will be available then.

    So right now, WPA3 would be nothing more than a checkbox feature for marketing purposes. Like MU-MIMO when it was first announced.
     
    Sayanux and Hydro like this.
  5. thiggins

    thiggins Mr. Easy Staff Member

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    Found the cause of the low uplink throughput on the RAX80. Article has been updated with retest data and explanation.
     
  6. sfx2000

    sfx2000 Part of the Furniture

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    Interesting...

    So if I understand correctly - the QCA client STA's minstrel_ht algo might be a bit borked and not resetting once conditions improved. I'm assuming that the octoscope PAL is using ath9k (maybe with additional hooks for control/debug).

    Conversely - my first thought would have been the airtime fairness treatment on the Broadcom side, as this has been problematic in the past with the AP drivers.. if the client STA was in the low bandwith queue, then that would explain why you see good RSSI and Tx rates, but fairness would limit actual air time, and as such, low overall packets per second..

    By breaking the current association, this clears the queue, and once the client reassociates, a new queue is established, which resets the mcs and aggregation profile for that device...

    Hmmm... probably need to dive into the code and take another look..

    Good catch!
     
    Last edited: Jan 15, 2019
  7. thiggins

    thiggins Mr. Easy Staff Member

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    @sfx2000: I caught only the symptom. The cause was identified working with both NETGEAR and Broadcom.

    The problem is not with airtime fairness. As I described, it's due to packet aggregation not being properly adjusted by the Qualcomm STA.
     
  8. sfx2000

    sfx2000 Part of the Furniture

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    Well... once it's sorted, everyone wins :)

    That you caught it, and in a way that was consistently reproducible - that's why I said good catch.
     
  9. EmeraldDeer

    EmeraldDeer Very Senior Member

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    Let's say the Wifi STA is my phone. If I walk away, the packet aggregation will adjust to low. But if I walk back toward the router's AP, it will not readjust to high on it's own? I would need to disconnect and reconnect? Qualcomm is still refining 802.11ac and 802.11n?
     
    Last edited: Jan 15, 2019
  10. thiggins

    thiggins Mr. Easy Staff Member

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    It's highly unlikely you would see this problem in open air conditions. The short distance in the chamber between AP and STA antennas makes the problem more likely to happen when AP and STA antennas are not positioned to maximize spatial diversity.

    That's why my normal process rotates the AP under test while traffic is running.
     
  11. sfx2000

    sfx2000 Part of the Furniture

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    After looking at code - I respectfully disagree - the ath9k code looks fine here - the AP drives the bus for things, not the client STA... ath5k and ath10k are similar here...

    One can look at the QC-Atheros client STA by directly by mounting the debugfs in linux and look at stats there.

    If it were a Client STA issue, we'd see thing with Realtek, Marvell, MediaTek, etc as AP's

    It's likely a Broadcom bug - which makes sense, since Broadcom folks made the fix (this is low level, so Netgear probably won't touch that layer as this is entirely within the MAC layer on WiFi)
     
  12. Dave in NM

    Dave in NM Regular Contributor

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    So one difference i see is RAX80 says 8 streams, and AX88U only 4? Is that correct?
     
  13. thiggins

    thiggins Mr. Easy Staff Member

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    That is just marketing games. NETGEAR is counting 4 streams for the 5 GHz radio and 4 for 2.4 GHz. Same as the ASUS. They are built on the same Broadcom chipset platform.
     
  14. Dave in NM

    Dave in NM Regular Contributor

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    That's good to know, so these are relatively the same then.