Help buy the Access point

[timtran99]

Hi All,

I have office around 50pp. setting up the wireless. I have router i want buy the Access Point. Anybody know which model can support 50user(wireless client)
My office have L: 70m and W: 25m , few Wall thick 25cm.

Any model AC can support my purpose pls let me know.
Thank you very much.

 

[stevech]

With 50 people, I suggest getting 2 or 3 access points. Reasons: both coverage (walls/floors) and capacity (people per access point).
ASUS is a good choice. USD$50 gets you a WiFi product that can be configured as WiFi router, Access Point or bridge. For 11n.
personally, I wouldn't pay the premium for an 11AC product that can easily be an access point.

 

[System Error Message]

Aside from multiple access points the AC3200 can support up to 96 clients if you have 32 clients on each of its radio but even than you would need to use port teaming and make sure the signal reaches everywhere. it isnt hard for an AP to support 50 clients but some wireless N and below APs will start acting up with too many fclients.

if your office has POE some access points have POE support and there are many brands you can choose from as long as they are only acting as an AP. If your office has the skill for networking you can also choose from mikrotik and ubiquiti if you want to utilise any advanced features since they too have good access points you can choose from and mikrotik routerboards can be upgraded since they have a mini-pcie slot, usb and SFP.

The 2.4Ghz only supports 3 APs within an area at 20mhz channels (excluding channel 14) that would fill up the 2.4Ghz wifi spectrum. 5Ghz spectrum supports a lot more. If you only need wireless N consider getting an AC AP mainly because of the better wifi chips increases wifi speeds for older protocols. it doesnt have to be the fastest or newest AC router or AP since all it needs is to support 2 channels per AP.

While i dont know any particular brands/models just go to their websites and look under wifi and AC.
Linksys or Cisco
Netgear
Belkin?
TP-link
ASUS
Mikrotik
Ubiquiti

There may be more brands but i suggest going to their product pages and looking what products they have that have wireless AC. As long as wifi reliability and speed is concerned and that you are only using it as a wifi AP there shouldnt be any trouble with them with stock firmware but when it comes stable basic features all of them are quite reliable. Take a look at the wifi chips they use, the features you need and the antennas (including upgrade-ability if you intend to use custom antennas to improve reception). Some of them have good stock antennas while some of them use basic ones or even internal which doesnt matter as long as it has the speed and coverage you want. Make a short list and you can check SMB website for an indepth review and performance of the device but you only need to know wireless speed, coverage and reliability (i.e. how does the wifi stability drop per distance).

 

[timtran99]

Aside from multiple access points the AC3200 can support up to 96 clients if you have 32 clients on each of its radio but even than you would need to use port teaming and make sure the signal reaches everywhere. it isnt hard for an AP to support 50 clients but some wireless N and below APs will start acting up with too many fclients.

if your office has POE some access points have POE support and there are many brands you can choose from as long as they are only acting as an AP. If your office has the skill for networking you can also choose from mikrotik and ubiquiti if you want to utilise any advanced features since they too have good access points you can choose from and mikrotik routerboards can be upgraded since they have a mini-pcie slot, usb and SFP.

The 2.4Ghz only supports 3 APs within an area at 20mhz channels (excluding channel 14) that would fill up the 2.4Ghz wifi spectrum. 5Ghz spectrum supports a lot more. If you only need wireless N consider getting an AC AP mainly because of the better wifi chips increases wifi speeds for older protocols. it doesnt have to be the fastest or newest AC router or AP since all it needs is to support 2 channels per AP.

While i dont know any particular brands/models just go to their websites and look under wifi and AC.
Linksys or Cisco
Netgear
Belkin?
TP-link
ASUS
Mikrotik
Ubiquiti

There may be more brands but i suggest going to their product pages and looking what products they have that have wireless AC. As long as wifi reliability and speed is concerned and that you are only using it as a wifi AP there shouldnt be any trouble with them with stock firmware but when it comes stable basic features all of them are quite reliable. Take a look at the wifi chips they use, the features you need and the antennas (including upgrade-ability if you intend to use custom antennas to improve reception). Some of them have good stock antennas while some of them use basic ones or even internal which doesnt matter as long as it has the speed and coverage you want. Make a short list and you can check SMB website for an indepth review and performance of the device but you only need to know wireless speed, coverage and reliability (i.e. how does the wifi stability drop per distance).

Hi SEM,
Thank for your reply.
How do you think if i use the Radius for authentication user login which should be chose and control the Bandwidth the user using ? What's model the best chose?

 

[System Error Message]

all wifi APs support radius. All you have to do is select WPA2-Enterprise and point to your radius server. I believe mikrotik, pfsense have radius server built in so if you used them as your main router you just need to enable and configure those features. What are you using as your main router?

Both mikrotik and pfsense support bandwidth control per user and are much easier to configure than a full fledged server OS in this sense. In mikrotik the bandwidth per user would either be configured as a general rule or via scripts that automatically create and delete rules based on user connections. Bandwidth control is not done by the AP but rather by the main router assuming you are applying bandwidth control for internet access. There isnt a particular AP to choose for bandwidth control and APs dont have the CPU for it so they are best used only to provide wifi and bridge wire.

Good QOS is hard to configure and routers like mikrotik have the most options you can for them from simple queues, global, que types, the algorithm used but is harder to configure manually for multiple users hence the use of scripts but pfsense is a lot easier to configure for multi user QoS. you could use a consumer router like the ASUS AC3200 with its adaptive QoS and consumer routers do have QoS but they do not provide much in configuring for users. You should define how you want your QoS to be in terms of priorities, bandwidth allocations and such as it would help to understand what you are trying to achieve. The only thing APs will do is provide wifi and authenticate against a radius server but QoS functionality has to be done by your internet gateway assuming this is QoS for internet traffic and not local.

Local traffic QoS needs to be done by a managed switch or if using software for the most flexible options would require a wirespeed router such as a mikrotik CCR or CISCO edge router series although i dont think you intend to do this.

 

[timtran99]

all wifi APs support radius. All you have to do is select WPA2-Enterprise and point to your radius server. I believe mikrotik, pfsense have radius server built in so if you used them as your main router you just need to enable and configure those features. What are you using as your main router?

Both mikrotik and pfsense support bandwidth control per user and are much easier to configure than a full fledged server OS in this sense. In mikrotik the bandwidth per user would either be configured as a general rule or via scripts that automatically create and delete rules based on user connections. Bandwidth control is not done by the AP but rather by the main router assuming you are applying bandwidth control for internet access. There isnt a particular AP to choose for bandwidth control and APs dont have the CPU for it so they are best used only to provide wifi and bridge wire.

Good QOS is hard to configure and routers like mikrotik have the most options you can for them from simple queues, global, que types, the algorithm used but is harder to configure manually for multiple users hence the use of scripts but pfsense is a lot easier to configure for multi user QoS. you could use a consumer router like the ASUS AC3200 with its adaptive QoS and consumer routers do have QoS but they do not provide much in configuring for users. You should define how you want your QoS to be in terms of priorities, bandwidth allocations and such as it would help to understand what you are trying to achieve. The only thing APs will do is provide wifi and authenticate against a radius server but QoS functionality has to be done by your internet gateway assuming this is QoS for internet traffic and not local.

Local traffic QoS needs to be done by a managed switch or if using software for the most flexible options would require a wirespeed router such as a mikrotik CCR or CISCO edge router series although i dont think you intend to do this.

wow, it's very nice answer. Thanks you very much S.E.M I got your mean. I will search which model mikrotik can support me. and noted the AC Asus AC3200.

One more time, thank you again.

 

[System Error Message]

Just to note that mikrotik requires a lot of skill to set up so i also suggested pfsense too. ASide from the ASUS AC3200 theres also the ASUS AC87U that supports adaptive QoS but in general i dont recommended them (they are both new and tend to be buggy). I only suggested the ASUS AC3200 as an access point because it has multiple radios if you are able to use a central location and not have any signal problems or deadzones. The adaptive QoS in the ASUS routers only work if you use them as internet gateways. I was basically only suggesting the AC3200 as an AP only because it has more wifi bandwidth for multiple users but you will still need to bond at least 2 ethernet ports on it.

My advice for a business environment is to go with a mixture of things such as mikrotik/ubiquiti APs and a high end mikrotik router or pfsense instead of a single router/AP. There are also other alternatives too that you can use as your main router such as a full server OS. It is also important that you google the wifi chips used on mikrotik and ubiquiti just to make sure they support multiple bands and protocols.

Although you can go with consumer brands for your AP since all your APs will be doing would be to provide wifi, authenticate user against a radius server and bridge wifi and ethernet. Basically just pick any AP that has dual channel AC wifi and good signal,performance and reliable wifi (that you dont have to restart it every now and than) which tends to be unlikely.

For your main router if you are using some random or consumer one (cisco RV included) than changing it to a mikrotik CCR or RB1100AHx2 or even a pfsense x86/atom box would let you set up radius server and the rules you need. The task for setting up and configuring this main router does require skill and knowledge ( i know their websites have documentation but you need to know what you are doing). When using mikrotik or pfsense the first thing you should do is update the firmware to the latest stable one.

If you look at mikrotik routerboards for wifi AP aside from googling the chips they use they have an inexpensive indoor variant that have SFP, miniPCIe, USB and a single ethernet port and 2 channel AC. Before you buy them be sure to contact mikrotik relating to their supported wifi protocols and wifi cards since some of their wifi cards only support a particular protocol. Ubiquiti is usually ahead of mikrotik in wifi but i dont know the status of their AC wifi APs.

When it comes to AC wifi avoid the newest or latest because if you have the skill available you do not need automatic stuff like smart connect and adaptive QoS if you can configure your network how you like. Some netgear routers are also compatible with merlin firmware if you ever need to modify linux files. Unless all your clients support MU-MIMO there is no reason to go for wave 2 wifi. If your users bring their own equipment for wifi than go with the standard and widely available wave 1 AC wifi.

 

[stevech]

Mikrotik can become a science experiment.

 

[Hansaya]

What you guys think of WRT AC1900 and Xclaim x-i3 ?

 

[htismaqe]

I personally like the WRT1900AC. It has served me well so far.

 

[Hansaya]

how about the fancy ASUS AC3200 ? I'm willing to spend money if wifi router/access point can handle good number of clients without sabotaging performance/range. I'm so confused on what to buy. Either go cheap and get AC1900 series or just pay extra 100 to get the newest technology.

 

[stevech]

My advice, such as it is, is to not over-buy. Many of us tend to replace WiFi every 2-3 years as the standards evolve. I stay 1-2 revs back and avoid seeking more speed than I pay my ISP for. Well, not even that, as the WiFi devices tend to be handhelds that don't demand a lot. My wired desktops and NAS are where the speed happens.

 

[System Error Message]

because you have 50 clients i suggest you get 2 AC1900s to place around your office. Sure the AC3200 can handle the load but smart connect doesnt work that well and i would not load more than 32 clients per AP. I suggest against the AC3200 if you cant cover your entire office with wifi from a single 5 Ghz AP. Aside from that mikrotik has indoor dual stream AC APs for $80 or less. Instead of trying to cram everyone onto the same access point where a single stream device can slow everyone down and some areas may have poor signal, 5 Ghz has a lot of spatial space that you can have 10 APs in a small area.

@stevech Mikrotik isnt a science experiment, it is used by various edge ISPs and in some core networks where the modularity and terabit performance of cisco isnt required. If you do not want to set aside an x86 box for pfsense/full server OS, mikrotik is the only inexpensive embedded router that has a radius server that can be used to authenticate various different things if you want it to not just wifi. I use mikrotik routerboard myself and they actually work well and require the same amount of skill to set up cisco IOS. The only difference between mikrotik and cisco is that cisco features are much faster on cisco hardware than on mikrotik but mikrotik is much cheaper. Compare the specs and price of cisco edgerouters to mikrotik CCRs including the power use. aside from cisco IOS there is no other platform that can inexpensively provide the most options for QoS,

 

[htismaqe]

Most people here aren't asking for a device that takes the same amount of skills to setup as Cisco IOS. At one point, I passed my CCIE written and I hold 4 Cisco certifications - even I don't want something like that in my home environment.

You're advocating something that is really above and beyond what the typical conversation here is asking.

 

[System Error Message]

Im just showing an example that there are dual stream access points that exist for $80 or less that the OP doesnt exactly have to spend $200 per AP. But when it comes to something with a RADIUS server there isnt an easy to configure device that has one integrated. An important point to note is that the OP has said it is for his office, not home.

@htismage i do use mikrotik at home but i use asus as dumb APs even though mikrotik routerboard APs can be better but its because i want some broadcom dual core ARM A9 to code.

 

[Hansaya]

I already bought Asus AC3200 because it has 2 separate 5g radios. I live in a rented, really old house with three other roommates. we all get good amount of signals (running cables not possible) but issues starting to come when we have more than 5 5g clients. specially when running an Lan parties. We get random lag issues, even when we have 60mbs line. I debugged the error down to the wifi since 2.4G network doesn't get the lag at the same time. But 2.4g lack on bandwidth, even the Unifi AP running at 40mhz, i only get about 6mBs to our NAS. I just wanted remove my Unifi AC and 5g router/access-point with one unit. So i thought having two separate 5g lines, I could use one for just gaming and the other for 4k TV and other devices.

 

[htismaqe]

@System Error Message - I wasn't talking specifically about this thread but more about your advocacy of Mikrotik in general. I don't have a problem with it, I just want to make sure it's clear that Mikrotik is more of an enthusiast/professional solution than most of the things we discuss here.

 

[System Error Message]

For most home related stuff i dont suggest mikrotik unless the user has the skill to configure it or for situations that consumer routers clearly cannot handle. Both ubiquiti and mikrotik are in the same class but mikrotik has more features and better architectures available and i usually link a demo so that people can see how its like and if they think they can handle it before they consider it. I usually suggest it when it is a business/office/critically important. Still if you think about it, i went from no skills to professional skill level without any online help or training, i did all the learning and research myself so its not like someone without skills couldnt learn and use it.

 

[htismaqe]

I hear you. I started out messing with VAX VMS and DECNet in the college computer lab and turned it into a 20-year career. The problem is that a lot of people, while having the capability, don't have the time or determination that you do. I know I don't anymore, even though I did 10-15 years ago. Sometimes people just want to plug it in and walk away.

 

[Hansaya]

When I worked Microsoft as a IT guy(intern) and at a college handling all dorm network, I learned everything by myself. I didnt had prior knowledge or certificates whats so ever. I performed way better than my colleges who had 20+ years experience. Cisco has all documentation online, pretty easy to figure out. For school dorm network, before i got there had really weired named router that crashes 3 times at-least a week.( school didnt had enough money to get cisco for dorms) I used two old optiplex machines to run Pfsense with redundant fail over Internet as well as router. Even after I left the school, system ran another 2-3 years unmonitored without a single fail.(they couldn't fill the position). Moral of the story, there is no magic running on a router. I'm sure anyone can figure out without prior experience. I was running dd-wrt till like month ago for years at my place. Ran fine till the hardware starting to give up. But even pfsenese or any other better router are a over kill no matter what people are saying, I think. P.S I wont recommend anyone to pursuing carrier in IT, you only get the blame when something fails. . I'm pretty happy being a programmer + pays better ;-)