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Help needed to decide a new router: A better alternative to Apple Airport Express

Which of these routers has the best reliability, user friendliness & performance?

  • Apple Airport Extreme (5th gen)

    Votes: 1 50.0%
  • ASUS RT-N66U Dark Knight Dual-Band Wireless-N900 Gigabit Router

    Votes: 1 50.0%
  • NETGEAR R6300 WiFi Router - 802.11ac Dual Band Gigabit

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Netgear N900

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Other

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Total voters
    2
  • Poll closed .

xair76

New Around Here
Hi, I have had for almost 5 years now a Dlink DIR-655. It has in periods very stable, but I feel it could definitely better, and it has been far from user friendly. The router is placed pretty much in the middle of my 100 m2 two stories townhouse, so all the connected clients get excellent signal. Some of the issues I've faced with it have been:
For a long time I couldn't get the computers in my network to "see" each other, because of a very obscure and strangely named feature. I think I finally found it out more or less after having the router for a year (when the need for local networking for gaming first appeared).
I stream movies and tv series from a laptop (on a wireless connection) to a PS3 (also on wireless) and it has always been far from perfect. It will often pause for some seconds and sometimes drop out altogether.
It has been generally stable but at some points it has needed a boot, and when it comes back up, it often becomes invisible for whatever clients were turned off during the reboot, requiring a second boot after which everything is ok.
After deciding to go and update the firmware to see if they had solved some of the issues, it wasnt possible to restore the settings I hade made, even though I created a backup of the settings. unfortunately I found out that the backup normally only works for small version changes (which makes it compleltey pointless).
Not only that, but it has now become very unstable, dropping the internet connection frequently.

I have now given up with the DIR-655 (and Dlink, unless someone is extremely convincing to give them another chance, which they don't deserve after the experience i've had with this router).

I want something which is easy to set up, has great range (as we're planning to move soon somewhere bigger), is very stable, and is very user friendly. It is not that I am not computer savvy, it's that I don't want to spend too much time learning stuff I don't find interesting. Money isn't really the issue here, although I like saving money where possible. My dream would be to open the box, spend a few minutes configuring the router, connecting all the clients that will be connected, and then forgetting about it, and getting fastest possible performance at all times.

In the network there will be two ReadyNAS Duo NAT servers connected by wire, and all of the following, connected by wifi:

2 iphones, 2 iPads, a PS3, about 8 laptops and pcs (all running different versions of windows), a samsung tv, a nintendo wii, a PS Vita, an apple TV, a Samsung galaxy tablet, two htc sense mobiles, wi-fi printer/scanner, and other stuff I probably didn't remember.

Again, I want something stable, user friendly and where I don't need to spend an entire evening looking for every single possible item on the routers options to find out which one i have to toggle to make my computers see each other or something like that. It needs to be stable, and compatible with all my stuff. I want to continue streaming from a laptop and from the NAS to the PS3 without hiccups. It should of course be safe and reliable. It WILL be On for its entire life. I've concluded I need a simultaneous dual wifi capable of 450/450 Mbit (is there anything faster?)

I've found very good reviews about the Apple Airport Extreme, but reading here I've found a number of issues, and I would rather have something other than apple.

The ASUS RT-N66U Dark Knight Dual-Band Wireless-N900 Gigabit Router seems like my likeliest candidate right now.

I've also seen the NETGEAR R6300 WiFi Router - 802.11ac Dual Band Gigabit which seems like a good second choice

or the Netgear N900,

or the Cisco Linksys E4200 v2 Maximum Performance Dual-Band N900 router

Which of these would be the best? Are there maybe others I'm overlooking?

Another thing, if someone is a guest in my local network, will they be able to be seen by my computers? that is, if a friend wants to bring his laptop to play say, civ v on a local network, will he have to connect as a guest or in the "main" network?

Thanks in advance, and sorry for the long post.
 
All the products you mention are popular and should do what you want. Note that a draft 802.11ac will provide no benefit unless you have a draft 11ac client. Also three-stream N routers ("N900) will provide no benefit unless you have three-stream clients.

For any product "whole house" coverage is not assured, particularly if you want to stream HD video. Web video (YouTube, Netflix) perhaps, but not HD.

If some one is connected via a wireless guest network, they will have access only to the Internet. If you want them to access your local network devices, they need to connect to your main SSID.
 
Thanks for the Quick reply

All the products you mention are popular and should do what you want. Note that a draft 802.11ac will provide no benefit unless you have a draft 11ac client. Also three-stream N routers ("N900) will provide no benefit unless you have three-stream clients.

Yes I am aware that I will most likely not "use" a lot of the capacity a router like this has right now, but I am also looking to future-proof a little bit. Playstation 4 is coming in 2013, and I think one of my laptops has 450 Mbit capabilities (still have to confirm it), but most my pcs have 300 Mbit. In any case I need something powerful, as at times there may be torrents going down to two different pcs, while the network is used to stream internally and someone is watching something on the ipad while someone else is maybe streaming from spotify.

For any product "whole house" coverage is not assured, particularly if you want to stream HD video. Web video (YouTube, Netflix) perhaps, but not HD.

Yup, I know there are no guarrantees, but my current router (DIR-655) is seen as an excelent signal everywhere in my home (it is placed pretty much as close to the center of the house as possible). Also of the neighbouring signals, the strongest one i see, is 62%. I think a reason for streaming to the ps3 being bumpy might be that it is both coming wirelessly from a laptop and then going wirelessly to the ps3. Maybe its too much for the router to handle (other pcs/devices are also using it simultaneously, but nothing very demanding usually). Streaming on HD normally works equally well as SD content. however, streaming content bought in itunes from internet to the Apple TV in HD never bumps. The Apple TV is maybe 2 cm away from the PS3, so it is not that the signal is stronger (again, both see excellent signal).

If some one is connected via a wireless guest network, they will have access only to the Internet. If you want them to access your local network devices, they need to connect to your main SSID.

Thanks, that was my guess... I hadn't bothered doing this with my current router, but will do more with the new one.

Have been reading reviews of the Asus Dark knight on Amazon, so it's looking stronger and stronger :-).
 
I think a reason for streaming to the ps3 being bumpy might be that it is both coming wirelessly from a laptop and then going wirelessly to the ps3. Maybe its too much for the router to handle
The problem is that available bandwidth is cut in half when you go wireless to wireless. The same radio has to receive, then retransmit.
 
Also three-stream N routers ("N900) will provide no benefit unless you have three-stream clients.

Respectfully disagree - first hand experience says that 3 stream AP's offer more that just higher speeds to 3 stream clients - they offer more capacity for a given channel, and this is becoming more important with more devices offering WiFi.

And the 3-stream AP's typically have better radios, more RAM, faster CPU's... better for all...
 
All the products you mention are popular and should do what you want. Note that a draft 802.11ac will provide no benefit unless you have a draft 11ac client..

Another thing to note - 802.11ac VHT mode, it's 5GHz only... there is no benefit for 2.4GHz clients, except perhaps 3 stream 802.11n which not all OEM's will include...
 
Respectfully disagree - first hand experience says that 3 stream AP's offer more that just higher speeds to 3 stream clients - they offer more capacity for a given channel, and this is becoming more important with more devices offering WiFi.
The only "capacity" testing I do is simultaneous up/down tests. Can you elaborate on the mechanism that allows more capacity for two-stream clients?

And the 3-stream AP's typically have better radios, more RAM, faster CPU's... better for all...
More RAM and faster CPUs, perhaps. But, my experience and testing doesn't really show a benefit for dual-stream clients from 3 stream routers.
 
The only "capacity" testing I do is simultaneous up/down tests. Can you elaborate on the mechanism that allows more capacity for two-stream clients?

More RAM and faster CPUs, perhaps. But, my experience and testing doesn't really show a benefit for dual-stream clients from 3 stream routers.

Without getting into too much detail about MIMO, more streams, more capacity...

FWIW - you only test one AP-STA at any given time, there is no load/stress testing with 1/5/10 clients running simultaneously - single/dual/three stream clients.

That is where three stream routers really shine... and in loading down an AP, that is where the faster CPU's, more RAM, better/newer wireless chipsets, it all starts adding up.
 
Last edited:
Thanks to you both for the answers... From what I learned here and on the Amazon.com forum, plus the horrible Big-Brotheresque things Cisco is doing with its latest routers, I decided to give the Asus RT-N66U a shot. It's in the mail, and I hope I have it by friday as it will give me time to install/test over the weekend to reach a veredict. If it's as good as the best reviews, i'll keep it and it will solve my issues, if not, I'm returning it and getting an Airport Extreme if this is yet another area where the main actors have become too complacient until Apple comes and shows how to make products the way they're supposed to be.

I really hope the Dark Knight lives up to the hype... I'm of course testing it thoroughly during my 14-days with right to return. I may post my findings here if anyone cares.

Now I've got to find what to do with the old DIR-655. Looks like for the time being it will just go into a box of old somewhat obsolete things. But maybe it could make a good network extender for when I move, if I need extra range?
 
Without getting into too much detail about MIMO, more streams, more capacity...

FWIW - you only test one AP-STA at any given time, there is no load/stress testing with 1/5/10 clients running simultaneously - single/dual/three stream clients.
You are correct. I can't speak to any issues regarding capacity.

I would like to understand this more. Can you please provide some references that show three-stream APs provide more capacity for two (or one) stream clients?
 
Most of the public info is either vendor propaganda or very esoteric academic papers - been thinking about how to present the advantages of MIMO, and how 3-stream plays into this for all clients attach in a way that is approachable.

I'm trying to find a way to discuss it in an approachable way - e.g. tell it to me like I'm five years old :D

I think this could be a good article for the site.
 
Thanks to you both for the answers... From what I learned here and on the Amazon.com forum, plus the horrible Big-Brotheresque things Cisco is doing with its latest routers, I decided to give the Asus RT-N66U a shot. It's in the mail, and I hope I have it by friday as it will give me time to install/test over the weekend to reach a veredict. If it's as good as the best reviews, i'll keep it and it will solve my issues, if not, I'm returning it and getting an Airport Extreme if this is yet another area where the main actors have become too complacient until Apple comes and shows how to make products the way they're supposed to be.

I really hope the Dark Knight lives up to the hype... I'm of course testing it thoroughly during my 14-days with right to return. I may post my findings here if anyone cares.

Now I've got to find what to do with the old DIR-655. Looks like for the time being it will just go into a box of old somewhat obsolete things. But maybe it could make a good network extender for when I move, if I need extra range?

If you always feel like moving out ahead there are Enterprise Access Points on Amazon you can look into those TX power ranges from 20dBm to 30dBm. Feedback on those seem too good go be true. Unless one of us really goes out and buys one to test. I might just do that the 27dBm disc. 30dBm very costly to me to buy. Might be more for those who have a larger area to deal with. Uses PoE which comes with it.

20dBm = 400 ft

27dBm = 400 ft

ASUS is more for home and small business.. Seems to be very popular here over the Cisco, Netgear, Belkin, D-LINK and TP-LINK.
 
Most of the public info is either vendor propaganda or very esoteric academic papers - been thinking about how to present the advantages of MIMO, and how 3-stream plays into this for all clients attach in a way that is approachable.

I'm trying to find a way to discuss it in an approachable way - e.g. tell it to me like I'm five years old :D

I think this could be a good article for the site.

Too many buzz words to have to get them interested in the hardware otherwise most won't buy. This site helps you decide though. I know it cost a lot to get these hardware to test. Vendors will supply them for free but not all will invest in that quest.

You got what you can get in retail and computer stores and then you got the enterprise business class that offers you more. But you need to know what your doing in that gear. Most really just want to just connect and plug-in the AC and that's it! No one has time to go in afterwards to tweak and re-configure the defaults. I do and I am sure you do too.

The cost of all these other brands can add up to buy one of the more expensive brands in business version.
 
Most of the public info is either vendor propaganda or very esoteric academic papers - been thinking about how to present the advantages of MIMO, and how 3-stream plays into this for all clients attach in a way that is approachable.

I'm trying to find a way to discuss it in an approachable way - e.g. tell it to me like I'm five years old :D

I think this could be a good article for the site.
I agree. If you figure out a good approach for the article, please let me know. I think you can go as high as twelve year old. :)
 
Clarification

Going back to this:
Respectfully disagree - first hand experience says that 3 stream AP's offer more that just higher speeds to 3 stream clients - they offer more capacity for a given channel, and this is becoming more important with more devices offering WiFi.
I may have misinterpreted this reply.

I understand how 3x3 APs provide more capacity for 3x3 STAs. Are you saying there are also benefits for 2x2 STAs (or 1x1) from 3x3 APs?
 
Going back to this:
I may have misinterpreted this reply.

I understand how 3x3 APs provide more capacity for 3x3 STAs. Are you saying there are also benefits for 2x2 STAs (or 1x1) from 3x3 APs?

Yes - a three stream AP uses all three radio chains, not matter what the STA is, it just changes the pre-coding in the PHY.

It's a knock-on benefit of MIMO - all STA's benefit.
 

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