Help replacing ISP provided modem/router

[Suttonchrs]

Hi all:

I’m looking for help choosing a new mesh or multi-AP system to improve Wi-Fi coverage and reliability. I currently use the ISP provided Sagemcom modem/router with some Plume pods, which have been extremely unreliable. I'd like to put the Sagemcom into bridge mode and replace it completely. Here’s my current setup and requirements:

• House size: ~3000 sq ft, 2 stories plus basement, brick construction (drywall interior). Mid 80s build.
• Backhaul: I just recently converted my coax outlets on the main and upper floor to MoCA using ScreenBeam adapters, so looking to do wired backhaul.
• Internet speed: 1Gbps down / 30Mbps up. My main coax connector comes into the house in the basement, which up until recently is where the modem/router was located.
• Devices: Around 85 total, mostly IoT (smart switches, plugs, cameras, etc.)

My requirements:

• Reliable whole-home coverage. I'm not chasing speed, but would like to have consistent 150Mbps in all rooms.
• App or web UI that isn’t locked behind a subscription - or at least an expensive subscription.
• Some basic degree of configuration options - i.e. the ability to separate 2.4GHz and 5GHz networks, reserve IPs, open/forward ports, control DHCP range, use custom DNS, etc.
• If going with access points, I prefer tabletop-style units (I don’t have PoE wiring or in-ceiling access).
• Budget: I'm located in Canada, but would prefer to stay under $750 CAD for the solution.

Any suggestions are greatly appreciated! Thanks!

 

[JoeHz]

Hi all:

I’m looking for help choosing a new mesh or multi-AP system to improve Wi-Fi coverage and reliability. I currently use the ISP provided Sagemcom modem/router with some Plume pods, which have been extremely unreliable. I'd like to put the Sagemcom into bridge mode and replace it completely. Here’s my current setup and requirements:

• House size: ~3000 sq ft, 2 stories plus basement, brick construction (drywall interior). Mid 80s build.
• Backhaul: I just recently converted my coax outlets on the main and upper floor to MoCA using ScreenBeam adapters, so looking to do wired backhaul.
• Internet speed: 1Gbps down / 30Mbps up. My main coax connector comes into the house in the basement, which up until recently is where the modem/router was located.
• Devices: Around 85 total, mostly IoT (smart switches, plugs, cameras, etc.)

My requirements:

• Reliable whole-home coverage. I'm not chasing speed, but would like to have consistent 150Mbps in all rooms.
• App or web UI that isn’t locked behind a subscription - or at least an expensive subscription.
• Some basic degree of configuration options - i.e. the ability to separate 2.4GHz and 5GHz networks, reserve IPs, open/forward ports, control DHCP range, use custom DNS, etc.
• If going with access points, I prefer tabletop-style units (I don’t have PoE wiring or in-ceiling access).
• Budget: I'm located in Canada, but would prefer to stay under $750 CAD for the solution.

Any suggestions are greatly appreciated! Thanks!

You looking for BE or AX level of wifi? I would definitely shy away from Netgear (paid use for features) and lean towards Asus. If you get an Asus Router that runs 3006 firmware, you can create multiple VLAN's including ones aimed for IoT devices (that's all of their BE stuff and *some* AX routers. Ex: RT-AX86U is a no, but RT-AX86U-Pro is a yes.

MoCA I have done everything to avoid. I only keep my ISP's router for its MoCA bridge functionality as they are my Cable TV provider as well. If your devices make for a transparent ethernet solution, you do you. Curious what speeds you obtain though. Like you I have my wiring closet in the basement, but have Cat-5 in a number of rooms, including where the one mesh router sits (Asus routers don't become unsupported. They just get relegated to mesh node duties).

 

[microchip]

ASUS is not the answer to everything. If you want high reliability and flexibility, you should look into the professional/business/enterprise equipment. Both Ubiquiti and MikroTik serve that space. The RouterOS of the latter has a bit of learning curve but once you get comfortable with it, you can do virtually everything. For APs, I can highly recommend The Omada units of TP-Link. They have all kinds AC, AX and BE and most are based on the QCA Qualcomm platform (which I prefer over Broadcom). From personal experience with MikroTik routers and Omada APs, that setup does not burp after you set it up and goes on forever.

This forum is highly biased towards ASUS and should stop recommending it for everything!

 

[JoeHz]

ASUS is not the answer to everything. If you want high reliability and flexibility, you should look into the professional/business/enterprise equipment. Both Ubiquiti and MikroTik serve that space. The RouterOS of the latter has a bit of learning curve but once you get comfortable with it, you can do virtually everything. For APs, I can highly recommend The Omada units of TP-Link. They have all kinds AC, AX and BE and most are based on the QCA Qualcomm platform (which I prefer over Broadcom). From personal experience with MikroTik routers and Omada APs, that setup does not burp after you set it up and goes on forever.

This forum is highly biased towards ASUS and should stop recommending it for everything!

I might suggest its biased for a reason, but again, hey, you do you as well Certainly from what the OP asked about, in the ASUS vs Netgear debate and anything aimed at a tech savvy user looking for good consumer level stuff, the existence of the Merlin custom firmware (and Asus' endorsement of it) makes that a walkover.

If you want to compare any of the above to Ubiquiti, you are talking about a much different target market and price point than the OP suggested.

Running pfSense on your own PC is also an option as well.

By all means though, take a look and "unbiased" reviews and argue with them about their Asus ratings

Reviews | Dong Knows Tech

Impartial. No-nonsense. Real stuff. All reviews and overviews on this website are based on thorough hands-on testing and real-world first-hand experience. Note: Our previews and first takes may include only initial impressions or preliminary assessments.

dongknows.com

 

[microchip]

It's biased because Merlin is here doing his development stuff AND Mr. Tim is so stuck up in refusing to add subforums for other brands as well. What is the name again of this forum? Small Net Builder Forums? Yea? No? More like ASUSForums.com!

Also, the OP didn't ask for ASUS, NETGEAR or any other brand, and he didn't post in an ASUS subforum. No idea why you have to come up with ASUS as a first choice.

Then, have you seen the prices of MikroTik routers? Way below that of ASUS with much better support and features! Omada APs are also not that expensive and all together fits well within the budget of OP! So please don't come with that ASUS crap again.

No, ASUS is not the holey grail and certainly not the solution to every post asking for advice. I've been on ASUS and it's a pussy compared to what higher level equipment can do.

 

[JoeHz]

To be brutally honest, I'm just trying to address the OP's concerns, and in all fairness, you've made a better point for Asus than I did:

OP didn't ask too much about performance. He did care about features, and like you point out, Asus offers them, if not through its own firmware, but Merlin's custom firmware that provides many of em and ways for others to add their own extensions to it.

Truth be told, you might be very well right about performance. I really would have zippo loyalty to Asus routers if not for the custom firmware that's available for them.

The stock firmware is, if you want to do anything interesting, limited. I quickly found that I couldn't update both a DDNS and IPV6 Tunnel's endpoint with it. Or when I ran the ipv6 Tunnel, Netflix would think I could be in another country and blocked access from it. That's probably true for lots of brands. Running Merlin though I was able to get around that and all sorts of other limitations.

My point is that except for maybe Ubiquiti, I don't know another manufacturer than lets people hack into their hardware like this (I also don't know diddly about MicroTik). If you care about stuff like this then this is a big deal. If you instead want the last little bit of thruput your pipe can get you, then you don't care and your packets will get to Scotland before mine

But I must admit, I've never met anyone as proud as you to be a TP-link customer. If you've got links on performance, by all means, heave-to with them. I'm sure everyone would love to see them. I sure would. I'm not being facetious about it. If MiroTik has a following, yeah, there should be a forum. Does it?

 

[Tech9]

Any suggestions are greatly appreciated!

Around 85 clients and counting, lots of IoTs - forget about consumer products. I would have ordered already a new complete single pane of glass UniFi or Omada system. This MoCA is an extra point of failure though.

I've never met anyone as proud as you to be a TP-link customer

You just have no idea how different Omada is from consumer Archer products. It's on another level and has nothing to do with commonly seen around overpriced gaming toys with RGB lights and hacked firmware.

 

[JoeHz]

Around 85 clients and counting, lots of IoTs - forget about consumer products. I would have ordered already a new complete single pane of glass UniFi or Omada system. This MoCA is an extra point of failure though.



You just have no idea how different Omada is from consumer Archer products. It's on another level and has nothing to do with commonly seen around overpriced gaming toys with RGB lights and hacked firmware.

I'm aware of Omada. It's just targeted at a different market than the OP asked for. I mean, how many users new to SNB should be going straight to that level of product?

My point is that nobody goes for the consumer TP-link stuff in their homes and is proud of the decision. And if they need Ubiquiti or Omada, they probably aren't asking the question the way the OP did.

 

[Tech9]

My point is that nobody goes for the consumer TP-link stuff in their homes and is proud of the decision

The new Network Application UI in UniFi OS is actually simpler and more user friendly than Asuswrt-Merlin. The new Deco BE (and some older AC/AX) class Qualcomm based products are with mesh features down to the wireless driver with auto signal level adjustment on the fly. They work better than AiMesh add-on software Asus developed with idea to catch up the trends. I would rather go Qualcomm hardware Eero, Nest, Deco before Broadcom with AiMesh. And TP-Link outsells everybody combined, by the way.

 

[microchip]

The point is that it shouldn't be "go get an ASUS and you're done, thread closed". There are better solutions that also not only cost less than an overpriced ASUS but offer more, are better and on a higher level. As Tech9 pointed out, OP says up to 85 (or more?) clients. Even the best ASUS will often choke on that while a singe Omada AP, that costs a lot less, can do up to 300 clients without a fart.

Combine a few Omada APs (which are nothing like consumer stuff as Tech9 said) with a nice Ubiquiti or MikroTik router (or even a business class TP-Link) and you have a network that won't burp or fart for a long time and will serve all you throw at it without a sweat.

I want to be part of this forum but honestly this "ASUS this, ASUS that... and nothing else exists" is really getting tiring. All the fanboys that follow Saint RMerlin and are blind to anything else, or start to argue when one suggests anything else, is scaring away people from here. Only a few months ago there was a post from a user where he says he no longer uses ASUS and this will be most likely his last post. Why did he say this? Because this forum has become "only ASUS (or NETGEAR) and nothing else" so it's no longer interesting to someone who doesn't use ASUS (or not any more). There's no reason to stay on here if such is the case. I find this sad and would like it to change.

I'm not a fanboy of TP-Link or anything else. I just use the best tools for the right job or settings. I've gone through ASUS for years, then NETGEAR for years, then TP-Link for some time and now I'm settled so far on MikroTik & TP-Link. I don't really care if the latter outsells someone else or not. What matters to me is the right tool at a right price for the right job.

 

[kuchkovsky]

This forum is highly biased towards ASUS and should stop recommending it for everything!

It actually seems like you're highly biased against ASUS. Their flagship routers won't have issues handling less than 100 devices. And these routers are definitely among the best in the consumer segment. No TP-Link or Netgear can even compare to them.

Regarding UniFi - yes, it's cool, but it's an entirely different beast with just a small overlap with ASUS, so we need to compare in a specific scenario. If there's no need to go with multiple APs and a single AIO router can handle everything, I don't see any reasons for going with any other brands, except ASUS. SMB hardware will just add more cost and complication.

 

[Tech9]

Their flagship routers won't have issues handling less than 100 devices. And these routers are definitely among the best in the consumer segment.

Sure…

GT-BE98 PRO - Is there a new version?

Asus website has been showing Notify Me status for a while and Amazon shows out of stock for a while (except used ones on sale for now). I was wondering if there is a new version of the Asus GT - BE 98 Pro coming? Any news?

www.snbforums.com

Otherwise I don’t mind someone else wasting money on sticker tuned Honda Civic type networking.

 

[Tech9]

I don't see any reasons for going with any other brands, except ASUS.

This is exactly what @microchip is talking about. The result of not knowing anything better...

 

[kuchkovsky]

Sure…

Maybe a firmware-related issue specific to that model. I was following the upgrade path: RT-AX88U -> RT-AX88U Pro -> RT-BE88U, and I never had any issues. No need to reboot or reset. Can't say the same thing about TP-Link, Xiaomi, or other mainland Chinese crap.

 

[kuchkovsky]

This is exactly what @microchip is talking about. The result of not knowing anything better...

If we talk about the consumer market, there's really no better brand. That's the context. If we talk about the SMB market, that's another story, and of course, there are better options. But it's usually overkill for simple setups and small apartments, so it's like comparing apples and oranges.

 

[Tech9]

I was following the upgrade path: RT-AX88U -> RT-AX88U Pro -> RT-BE88U, and I never had any issues.

And your TM DPI engine is working with QoS and everything on the BE model, your Dual WAN is working too… minor firmware issues only, may last the device life cycle. It’s cheap though, no question about it… for >30Gbps routing capacity without counting the maximum theoretical USB speed.

 

[Tech9]

But it's usually overkill for simple setups and small apartments

I do have UniFi system in an apartment. Two devices only, Gateway with built-in Switch and Controller and single Access Point. It replaced older model Qualcomm hardware AIO Synology router with much better software than Asuswrt. Again, if you haven’t seen anything better you may think your choice is the best available.

 

[kuchkovsky]

your TM DPI engine is working with QoS

Yeah, the stats are messed up on the BE, but I rarely used them anyway. QoS itself is not needed on multigig connections.

your Dual WAN is working too

Funny, but yes, it's really working well for me. Useful thing when working from home - no downtime. I also configured email notifications in Merlin, so I know when there are issues with my main ISP.

BTW, is there an easy way to use a USB LTE dongle with UniFi? Seems it doesn't have USB, and buying a separate external Ethernet-based modem is overkill for me.

 

[microchip]

It actually seems like you're highly biased against ASUS. Their flagship routers won't have issues handling less than 100 devices. And these routers are definitely among the best in the consumer segment. No TP-Link or Netgear can even compare to them.

Regarding UniFi - yes, it's cool, but it's an entirely different beast with just a small overlap with ASUS, so we need to compare in a specific scenario. If there's no need to go with multiple APs and a single AIO router can handle everything, I don't see any reasons for going with any other brands, except ASUS. SMB hardware will just add more cost and complication.

Oh boy, another ASUS fanboy who's gone blind and has his ego bruised

I'm biased against ASUS, after using it for years, FOR A REASON. It doesn't matter whether consumer, business or professional equipment. There are BETTER solutions that COST LESS that an overpriced AIO device with flashy lights! Get it in your THICK SKULL and accept the FACTS, yeah? yeah? What I suggested will cost a bit less but will beat the shirt out of any ASUS top model router. As it's a modular set up, you don't have to replace the whole thing when time comes or it breaks. Upgrade the WiFi? Just replace the APs while your main network still functions. An AP breaks? Just replace that, and while you won't have coverage in that specific room or place, the rest of the network continues to operate. With ASUS AIOs, it breakes? You're fracked as your whole network goes down!

Also, your "less than 100 devices" is temporary. You don't think with the future in mind. What if OP gets more in the future and your lovely ASUS start dropping shirt? Ever think of that? No? Yes? I thought so! A set up should work for years to come!

You are the exact reason why PEOPLE LEAVE this forum when they move to something else! Why are you such a fanboy? Does ASUS pay you for that? You see "no reason" with going with other brands. Well, I can give you plenty, just ask!

 

[Tech9]

Let’s keep it civilized, please. There are pros and cons to both Home and SMB options.