High ping - Error on router or ISP?

[PaulKemp]

I am having issues when gaming, namely that I am disconnected from game servers in Overwatch. Really inconvenient.
- Can someone help me troubleshoot?
- 1) Can this be due to faulty firmware installation (clearing nvram) or
- 2) can it be blamed on my ISP?
- 3) can it be due my old wired cables?

PC is wired to AC86U (384.19), older cat5 cables.

These results are router pinging a public webpage through SSH, these are the spikes I see after a 30 min pinging:

These results are PC pinging router, these are the spikes i see over 30 mins pinging:

 

[heysoundude]

Ping is the Round Trip Time between when a signal is sent from a device to another, and when a response is received.
In the case of your computer to the router, <1ms is expected. figure out why your router is yo-yoing to 9ms, 14ms, 22ms etc and you're well on your way to the stability you're looking for - those ping spikes arent uncommon, but they can be irritating. Same goes for the router pinging a server 8ms-108ms (that's what you need to try to eliminate).

a UPS might help stabilize power frequency (that the router's internal clock responds to) and supply voltage (jittery clocks cause connection issues), but it you should also take a look at whether the router is correctly configured to talk with your ISP at the right MTU/MRU...and if you're using QoS, look into whether that might need reconfiguring as well. It may be cabling, but often just a slight misconfiguration can cause the issue you've demontrated above - so until you've checked that, your cabling can't be suspect...because signals are passing.

another thing you could take a look at is router CPU and radio temperatures - electronics can react in unpredictable/unexpected/unwelcome ways if they're too hot.

One other thing you should do since you have an AC86 is use the wifi radar: scan to make sure you and a neighbour aren't tap dancing on each others toes -if your router is fighting for "airspace" with one of your neighbours (yes I know you said you're cabled to the router), the router changing gears/channels might have an effect on throughput somehow.

 

[el pescador]

Probably both.
Wouldn't like to see the network with those spikes....but doubt they are causing all of the ones to the game servers.
Use pingplotter for a better view of what is going on.
Tip...monitor from time to time on PP to get a picture of what normally happens.
My gameplay to fifa can be bad when the isp network has icmp packet loss and or spikes through it but it will alwys be bad if the aws or end of the tier network is a bit funky.

 

[PaulKemp]

Ping is the Round Trip Time between when a signal is sent from a device to another, and when a response is received.
In the case of your computer to the router, <1ms is expected. figure out why your router is yo-yoing to 9ms, 14ms, 22ms etc and you're well on your way to the stability you're looking for - those ping spikes arent uncommon, but they can be irritating. Same goes for the router pinging a server 8ms-108ms (that's what you need to try to eliminate).

a UPS might help stabilize power frequency (that the router's internal clock responds to) and supply voltage (jittery clocks cause connection issues), but it you should also take a look at whether the router is correctly configured to talk with your ISP at the right MTU/MRU...and if you're using QoS, look into whether that might need reconfiguring as well. It may be cabling, but often just a slight misconfiguration can cause the issue you've demontrated above - so until you've checked that, your cabling can't be suspect...because signals are passing.

another thing you could take a look at is router CPU and radio temperatures - electronics can react in unpredictable/unexpected/unwelcome ways if they're too hot.

One other thing you should do since you have an AC86 is use the wifi radar: scan to make sure you and a neighbour aren't tap dancing on each others toes -if your router is fighting for "airspace" with one of your neighbours (yes I know you said you're cabled to the router), the router changing gears/channels might have an effect on throughput somehow.

wow tons of useful information right here! Will look into this later tonight and report back. HUGE thanks

 

[PaulKemp]

Use pingplotter for a better view of what is going on.

Result from pingplotting towards google.com.

Could it be the package loss to the Swedish server I see there?

you should also take a look at whether the router is correctly configured to talk with your ISP at the right MTU/MRU...and if you're using QoS...

As far as I know all these settings are default, there is no need to setup anything towards my ISP. Modem from ISP is in bridge mode, and AC86U acts as router. All settings are default. No QoS.

another thing you could take a look at is router CPU and radio temperatures -

CPU temps are at 68 C / 154 F. CPU is at max 15% utilization. Ram around 50%.

• Should be OK?

One other thing you should do since you have an AC86 is use the wifi radar: scan to make sure you and a

AC86U is setup to use Smart Connect. This could be the issue I guess, that spikes are caused when router has to make changes on the fly.

• Should I disable this and setup separate 2.4 and 5 GHz?

 

[leerees]

RT-AX92U setup here. We have about 20 devices in our house active. We notice intermittent ping spikes to the router during high CPU usage times. A large download can trigger high CPU usage. 2 XBOXs gaming and a few TV's streaming is less than 3%. Our internet connection is 1gbps.

The ping spikes are at worst an extra 10ms - 15ms and do not actually cause any lag that we can notice in games. As gaming seems to be unaffected we didn't see it as a problem and just assumed the router was busy doing other things when the ping happened.

I would try to see if the spikes correlate with high CPU usage.

As a side note I will say that this router has completely eliminated all the horrendous bufferbloat problems we suffered in the past. We looked into spending a lot more on a Draytek setup. Happy we went with the cheaper option now as it's more than fine.

 

[el pescador]

When i see icmp packet loss , for me its a sign usually of bad gameplay.Some tiers/isps though only treat icmp like that but as its low payload normally it is a sign they will be booting other protocols...they wont admit it though.
One thing to take into account atm is covid. More people at home. Already well used routes being even more used.
Your home network looks fine to me..
On the blower to the isp imo

 

[heysoundude]

Result from pingplotting towards google.com.
View attachment 27508

Could it be the package loss to the Swedish server I see there?



As far as I know all these settings are default, there is no need to setup anything towards my ISP. Modem from ISP is in bridge mode, and AC86U acts as router. All settings are default. No QoS.



View attachment 27509View attachment 27510
View attachment 27511

CPU temps are at 68 C / 154 F. CPU is at max 15% utilization. Ram around 50%.

• Should be OK?

AC86U is setup to use Smart Connect. This could be the issue I guess, that spikes are caused when router has to make changes on the fly.

• Should I disable this and setup separate 2.4 and 5 GHz?

people pinging google makes me smh. ping what you connect to most, or to what you're trying to diagnose connectivity issues with. I've got connmon running on mine to ping my ISP's website: my ping is steady, my jitter is steady and my packet loss is acceptable most of the time (I should spend a bit more time tweaking my QoS)

Yes, MTU should be detected by the router, but it doesn't hurt to check...and that confirms what settings you should use to reduce/eliminate packet loss and bufferbloat in a QoS scenario. that's where latency comes from...
Your router is running on the cool side, which is good for longevity.
and I say yes to turning Smart Connect OFF

your issue probably isnt the ISP - I'll wager it's the gaming server itself. That's who to raise the concern/issue with.

 

[el pescador]

people pinging google makes me smh. ping what you connect to most, or to what you're trying to diagnose connectivity issues with. I've got connmon running on mine to ping my ISP's website: my ping is steady, my jitter is steady and my packet loss is acceptable most of the time (I should spend a bit more time tweaking my QoS)

Yes, MTU should be detected by the router, but it doesn't hurt to check...and that confirms what settings you should use to reduce/eliminate packet loss and bufferbloat in a QoS scenario. that's where latency comes from...
Your router is running on the cool side, which is good for longevity.
and I say yes to turning Smart Connect OFF

your issue probably isnt the ISP - I'll wager it's the gaming server itself. That's who to raise the concern/issue with.

Makes sense to only ping the game servers and not irrelevant other IPs.
I do. But icmp isn't really ideal.
Games companies are a bit sneaky. They can set up UDP streams to test but know they will get a lot of comeback on themselves so don't bother.
EA are the biggest culprits.
They actually do measure UDP latency but end up showing results which are very misleading.
ie...packet loss only registers on Battlefield if it last for over a second..
You will get the odd packet loss icon show up but not sure the threshold for that.
Ive asked EA to packet loss on both UDP data streams in graph form for each game....will they listen? no chance.

 

[PaulKemp]

I would try to see if the spikes correlate with high CPU usage.

I've never seen CPU higher than 20% on the web GUI, but ill continue to check it out while gaming now.

Ill also run a continuous ping and pingplotter to the Overwatch EU servers to see if there are any spikes in there if I get disconnected.

Battle.net looking glass result - Blizzard diagnostic tool.

• Any input on this?

TRACEROUTE:
traceroute to MY_IP (MY_IP), 15 hops max, 60 byte packets
 1  Blizzard Blizzard  0.560 ms  0.542 ms  0.538 ms
 2  37.244.25.2 (37.244.25.2)  1.223 ms  1.220 ms  1.218 ms
 3  Blizzard Blizzard  1.321 ms  1.321 ms  1.319 ms
 4  137.221.66.38 (137.221.66.38)  1.182 ms  1.186 ms  1.185 ms
 5  137.221.77.50 (137.221.77.50)  175.777 ms  175.794 ms  175.796 ms
 6  137.221.77.32 (137.221.77.32)  1.218 ms  1.005 ms  0.968 ms
 7  prs-b8-link.telia.net (62.115.178.204)  0.723 ms  0.725 ms  0.721 ms
 8  prs-bb3-link.telia.net (62.115.138.132)  28.244 ms  28.950 ms  29.000 ms
 9  ffm-bb1-link.telia.net (62.115.123.12)  29.183 ms  29.247 ms  28.090 ms
10  kbn-bb3-link.telia.net (62.115.114.92)  24.706 ms  22.014 ms  22.099 ms
11  oso-b1-link.telia.net (62.115.116.104)  28.506 ms  28.546 ms  28.761 ms
12  altibox-svc068417-ic352751.c.telia.net (62.115.186.111)  28.521 ms  28.220 ms  28.158 ms
13  218.213-167-114.customer.lyse.net (213.167.114.218)  44.361 ms  44.193 ms  44.032 ms
14  90.81-166-123.customer.lyse.net (81.166.123.90)  43.199 ms  42.678 ms  44.633 ms
15  86.81-166-123.customer.lyse.net (81.166.123.86)  44.328 ms  44.529 ms  44.500 ms


08/11/2020 19:12:48 UTC
--------------------

TRACEROUTE:
traceroute to MY_IP (MY_IP), 15 hops max, 60 byte packets
 1  Blizzard Blizzard  0.314 ms  0.293 ms  0.290 ms
 2  37.244.24.131 (37.244.24.131)  218.249 ms  218.283 ms  218.496 ms
 3  Blizzard Blizzard  0.744 ms  0.749 ms  0.747 ms
 4  137.221.66.40 (137.221.66.40)  0.410 ms  0.414 ms  0.413 ms
 5  137.221.78.54 (137.221.78.54)  757.597 ms  757.603 ms  757.601 ms
 6  * * *
 7  137.221.78.34 (137.221.78.34)  1.182 ms  1.554 ms  1.563 ms
 8  et-4-0-16.edge7.Amsterdam1.Level3.net (212.72.41.89)  0.833 ms  0.851 ms  0.842 ms
 9  ae-2-2.bar1.Oslo2.Level3.net (4.69.137.53)  32.210 ms  31.771 ms  31.772 ms
10  ALTIBOX-AS.bar1.Oslo2.Level3.net (62.140.27.58)  31.977 ms  31.712 ms  31.748 ms
11  53.81-166-123.customer.lyse.net (81.166.123.53)  39.783 ms  39.838 ms  39.778 ms
12  * * *
13  * * *
14  * * *
15  * * *


08/11/2020 19:12:48 UTC
--------------------

PING:
PING MY_IP (MY_IP) 56(84) bytes of data.

--- MY_IP ping statistics ---
4 packets transmitted, 0 received, 100% packet loss, time 2999ms



08/11/2020 19:12:48 UTC
--------------------

PING:
PING MY_IP (MY_IP) 56(84) bytes of data.

--- MY_IP ping statistics ---
4 packets transmitted, 0 received, 100% packet loss, time 3001ms



08/11/2020 19:12:48 UTC
--------------------

MTR:
Start: Sun Nov  8 19:12:49 2020 Blizzard  1.|-- Blizzard    0.0%    10    0.3   1.1   0.3   7.3   2.2
  2.|-- ???             100.0    10    0.0   0.0   0.0   0.0   0.0


08/11/2020 19:12:47 UTC
--------------------

MTR:
Start: Sun Nov  8 19:12:49 2020 Blizzard  1.|-- Blizzard                             0.0%    10    0.3   0.9   0.2   7.2   2.1
  2.|-- 37.244.25.2                             0.0%    10    0.5   0.8   0.5   2.1   0.3
  3.|-- Blizzard                            0.0%    10    0.8   1.9   0.7   8.0   2.3
  4.|-- 137.221.66.38                           0.0%    10    0.6   1.5   0.4   7.1   2.2
  5.|-- 137.221.77.50                           0.0%    10  1027. 645.3  19.3 1027. 364.9
  6.|-- 137.221.77.32                           0.0%    10   11.7   5.2   0.8  13.8   5.4
  7.|-- prs-b8-link.telia.net                   0.0%    10    0.6   2.4   0.6   8.3   2.9
  8.|-- prs-bb3-link.telia.net                  0.0%    10   28.0  28.4  27.8  32.5   1.4
  9.|-- ffm-bb1-link.telia.net                  0.0%    10   28.2  28.2  28.0  28.8   0.0
 10.|-- kbn-bb3-link.telia.net                 30.0%    10   24.1  22.8  22.0  24.1   0.8
 11.|-- oso-b1-link.telia.net                   0.0%    10   28.1  28.9  28.1  35.4   2.2
 12.|-- altibox-svc068417-ic352751.c.telia.net  0.0%    10   28.5  28.3  28.0  28.6   0.0
 13.|-- 218.213-167-114.customer.lyse.net       0.0%    10   44.6  44.7  42.3  50.9   2.5
 14.|-- 90.81-166-123.customer.lyse.net         0.0%    10   46.1  44.0  42.6  46.1   0.9
 15.|-- 86.81-166-123.customer.lyse.net         0.0%    10   52.1  45.1  42.9  52.1   3.0
 16.|-- 53.81-166-123.customer.lyse.net         0.0%    10   54.6  44.4  42.4  54.6   3.7
 17.|-- ???                                    100.0    10    0.0   0.0   0.0   0.0   0.0


08/11/2020 19:12:48 UTC
--------------------

 

[PaulKemp]

Update. Disconnected again. SSH to router was terminated immediately with 'Connection reset by ROUTER'

These events are seen in syslog at the time of the error:

Nov  8 20:46:41 wlceventd: WLCEVENTD wlceventd_proc_event(500): eth6: Auth A4:34:D9:A1:4B:8B, status: Successful (0)
Nov  8 20:46:41 wlceventd: WLCEVENTD wlceventd_proc_event(529): eth6: Assoc A4:34:D9:A1:4B:8B, status: Successful (0)
Nov  8 20:46:41 dnsmasq-dhcp[1238]: DHCPREQUEST(br0) 10.0.0.220 a4:34:d9:a1:4b:8b
Nov  8 20:46:41 dnsmasq-dhcp[1238]: DHCPACK(br0) 10.0.0.220 a4:34:d9:a1:4b:8b node1080
Nov  8 20:46:55 dnsmasq-dhcp[1238]: DHCPREQUEST(br0) 10.0.0.210 40:8d:5c:bf:0b:9a
Nov  8 20:46:55 dnsmasq-dhcp[1238]: DHCPACK(br0) 10.0.0.210 40:8d:5c:bf:0b:9a node1080
Nov  8 20:46:55 dropbear[8083]: Exit (admin) from <10.0.0.210:61672>: Error reading: Connection timed out

I am starting to believe there are issues on my network card!

Easy to troubleshoot though;

• I am switching away from my Intel I211 to my Intel I219-V to see if that does anything.
• And updating the drivers on both

 

[heysoundude]

I am starting to believe there are issues on my network card!

Easy to troubleshoot though;

• I am switching away from my Intel I211 to my Intel I219-V to see if that does anything.
• And updating the drivers on both

updating drivers is usually a good idea, but so is checking the settings of the components they control - defaults may or may not be correct for your situation/config.
Remember - Trust but verify!

 

[heysoundude]

Makes sense to only ping the game servers and not irrelevant other IPs.
I do. But icmp isn't really ideal.
Games companies are a bit sneaky. They can set up UDP streams to test but know they will get a lot of comeback on themselves so don't bother.
EA are the biggest culprits.
They actually do measure UDP latency but end up showing results which are very misleading.
ie...packet loss only registers on Battlefield if it last for over a second..
You will get the odd packet loss icon show up but not sure the threshold for that.
Ive asked EA to packet loss on both UDP data streams in graph form for each game....will they listen? no chance.

It would impact sales.
I don't want to rant, but while the internet is wonderful, it sure as hell isn't perfect. and it may never be. the idea of online gaming is cool, but somehow I doubt if it will ever be as perfect as people seem to require it to be.

 

[PaulKemp]

updating drivers is usually a good idea, but so is checking the settings of the components they control - defaults may or may not be correct for your situation/config.
Remember - Trust but verify!

yes. To be honest, I am unsure of the MTU settings and how it should be configured. Ive looked around, but these are settings I have never touched. So that is why I am not responding to what you are suggesting

 

[Linux_Chemist]

yes. To be honest, I am unsure of the MTU settings and how it should be configured. Ive looked around, but these are settings I have never touched. So that is why I am not responding to what you are suggesting

For what it's worth, there's a handy site I was looking at recently that pings your IP (so depending on your router firewall rules may not even work), that can measure and give you the highest MTU size your connection can use. http://www.letmecheck.it/mtu-test.php

On a vpn connection, it gives me 1496 (though I thought I read openvpn only likes up to 1450 but nevermind) and when I'm on a standard connection (VDSL2), 1500, but even punching in 1492 (default for pppoe) is a sensible value. Consider 1500 a safe maximum and 1300 a cute little tribble.
Too big and you won't be able to connect to anything, too small and you'll connect fine it'll just be a bit slower than you'd like. (Then again, may be slightly faster depending on the layout of hops along the way!) But in the end, it's just a number and if it doesn't work, put a new one that's sensible, nothing will explode lol

 

[PaulKemp]

Update:
It may be that my network card is bad.

• I remember seeing a few weeks a go that I got a 'General failure' when pinging router during a gaming session. On Intel I211
• I've completed 3 ranked games of Overwatch without any disconnects after switching to Intel I219-V

 

[heysoundude]

A malfunctioning NIC would definitely be an issue.

For what it's worth, there's a handy site I was looking at recently that pings your IP (so depending on your router firewall rules may not even work), that can measure and give you the highest MTU size your connection can use. http://www.letmecheck.it/mtu-test.php

I've a native v6 connection with my ISP, and everything on my network is v6, so I wonder what will happen if I crank my MTU and MRU up some...(I've actually got it set at 4096 for my desktop's network adapter - and it's snappy, possibly the fastest connection on my network).
Using that website (which is a wonderful find/tool - thank you!), I get 1492 on the IPv4 side, but the interesting thing is when I use my router's IPv6 WAN address: I get 1743 and the test self-terminates before reaching my connection's limit. I really need to pause to reconsider all of my settings/options before...and talk to some Cisco-certified people I know before making any adjustments that might get people screaming at me ;-p