LinkSys WRT3200ACM questions

[SledgeHammer01]

Hi guys,

I currently have a LinkSys EA6900 and a LinkSys WUMC710 wireless bridge. The WUMC710 is a huge POS and drops connections to the network constantly having to recycle it (Linksys is well aware, but never fixed it). I have the WUMC710 in the living room in the entertainment center with a TV, DVR, BluRay player and AVR hardwired to it.

Doesn't seem to be any decent AC wireless bridges except the plug style which would require a hub. The EA6900 doesn't have a bridge / repeater mode unless you flash to DD-WRT and that's problematic due to a bios bug in the EA6900 that limits NVRAM size.

So... long story short LOL... I'm thinking of replacing both the EA6900 and the WUMC710 with twin WRT3200ACMs and running a 160mhz wide channel for 2600Mbps MU-MIMO.

Anybody running that setup that can comment on the stability? Don't want to drop $400 on another flakey setup.

 

[L&LD]

You're willing to spend $500 on this? You may want to try the Orbi (main + 1 satellite; it is said to excel in these type of situations).

Myself, I would start with an RT-AC3100 and if needed, add an RT-AC56U for the wired 'bridge' devices instead of continuing to try with the Linksys offerings.

Both Asus' routers would be running RMerlin's firmware, of course.

And the total cost will be much less than the two WRT ACM's or the Orbi too.

 

[SledgeHammer01]

You're willing to spend $500 on this? You may want to try the Orbi (main + 1 satellite; it is said to excel in these type of situations).

Myself, I would start with an RT-AC3100 and if needed, add an RT-AC56U for the wired 'bridge' devices instead of continuing to try with the Linksys offerings.

Both Asus' routers would be running RMerlin's firmware, of course.

And the total cost will be much less than the two WRT ACM's or the Orbi too.

I can get 2 WRT ACMs for $400 which is the same cost of an Orbi 1+1. Hmm... the review on here does say it has good performance, but I would think the WRTs would be faster since they can do a 2600 bridge while the Orbi can only do a 1733 bridge?

I'm happy with the EA6900, that reaches everywhere in my house. I can get full ISP speed all the way up in the 2nd story bedrooms. It's the bridge I'm not happy with since it disconnects all the time .

I'll have to research the Orbi further though.

 

[sfx2000]

I would have to concur with @L&LD on this one - not the best application/use case for the WRT3200acm...

Orbi is one to consider - or a dual AP set up using ethernet or HPNA (HomePlug or MOCA) to use as a backhaul.

 

[SledgeHammer01]

I would have to concur with @L&LD on this one - not the best application/use case for the WRT3200acm...

Orbi is one to consider - or a dual AP set up using ethernet or HPNA (HomePlug or MOCA) to use as a backhaul.

You mean that its overkill or that the 2600Mbps bridge doesn't work that well? Or both ? One thing I prefer going the twin WRT route is that both are routers, so can be repurposed / better resale down the road while the Orbi setup is pretty much a married / one trick pony?

Does the Orbi router have full router functionality? One feature I specifically need is to allow the DirecTV DVR onto the network for DLNA, but block internet access due to a bug in the DirecTV software that they refuse to fix.

 

[SledgeHammer01]

I would have to concur with @L&LD on this one - not the best application/use case for the WRT3200acm...

Orbi is one to consider - or a dual AP set up using ethernet or HPNA (HomePlug or MOCA) to use as a backhaul.

I don't think the Orbi is going to work for me. Too big to fit where I need it 9" tall . Its nice that it has a dedicated backhaul channel though. If I ran the WRTs in 160mhz mode, isn't that a dedicated backhaul channel? I know it eats up a lot of the 5Ghz bandwidth, but clients can't talk 160mhz yet, so they'd have to use a different channel, no?

My other concern about the Orbi (and other mesh devices) is that placement of the satellite seems crucial from what I'm reading and can cause problems if its placed "wrong"? In my scenario, I have to place the satellite in a very specific location because that's where I need the Ethernet ports .

 

[pege63]

Or you can try with a Switch

 

[SledgeHammer01]

Or you can try with a Switch

Try what with a switch? You think if I could run an Ethernet drop to the entertainment center I'd be asking this question?

 

[sfx2000]

You mean that its overkill or that the 2600Mbps bridge doesn't work that well? Or both ? One thing I prefer going the twin WRT route is that both are routers, so can be repurposed / better resale down the road while the Orbi setup is pretty much a married / one trick pony?

There are issues with Linksys SmartWiFi that can cause issues here... that and the relative (im)maturity of the FW on the WRT3200acm (including features not yet implemented)...

160MHz - I would wait and see what happens in the market, as there's plenty of issues to solve there... keep in mind that no matter what, 160MHz channels are definitely going to be in DFS space, so that can be a concern there as well, depending on how Marvell has implemented DFS (prior WRT's did not do DFS with factory firmware from Linksys).

In any event, as a single BHR use case, it's perhaps worth looking at, but I can't recommend going much more complex than that with the current state of firmware...

 

[sfx2000]

If I ran the WRTs in 160mhz mode, isn't that a dedicated backhaul channel? I know it eats up a lot of the 5Ghz bandwidth, but clients can't talk 160mhz yet, so they'd have to use a different channel, no?

No - it's not, unless you dedicate the 5GHz SSID specifically to that bridge link, which means all you would be able to do for the client side is 2.4GHz, as the 5GHz will be dedicated to the bridge...

Orbi is different in that each node has 2 5GHz radios, one for the backhaul link, and one for the clients associated with the Orbi node...

 

[sfx2000]

LinkSys WUMC710

Most of your issues with your current setup probably wrap around the WUMC710 - I had, at one time, the previous model (WET610n), and it was horrible (dropped UDP packets, bad issues with TCP and UDP packet renumbering, etc), ended up replacing it with a Buffalo 802.11n Wireless Ethernet Adapter (WLI-TX4-AG300N), which is sadly out of production, and problems basically went away...

My thoughts here - take stock of the situation, and before throwing hard-earned money at the problem, perhaps it's as simple as picking up a MOCA or HomePlug kit, and go that route...

It's a lot cheaper, and probably better performance..

 

[SledgeHammer01]

that and the relative (im)maturity of the FW on the WRT3200acm (including features not yet implemented)...

In any event, as a single BHR use case, it's perhaps worth looking at, but I can't recommend going much more complex than that with the current state of firmware...

Yeah, that is one of my concerns actually -- that its a new router with new firmware. The DD-WRT firmware only has one rev as well. The Linksys firmware is on the 3rd rev based on the release notes, but I haven't seen anything in the release notes that indicates many new features / performance improvements. And based on the other routers they have, they tend to abandon them kinda quickly. Last rev on the 1900 was in June/16.

 

[SledgeHammer01]

Most of your issues with your current setup probably wrap around the WUMC710

No doubt it is. That thing is garbage. Works fine, but disconnects from the network every few days when using the upper channels. With the lower channels its rock solid. Problem is my iPhone doesn't work well with the lower channels upstairs.

There are 18 pages on the Linksys forums about the same issue .

 

[SledgeHammer01]

My thoughts here - take stock of the situation, and before throwing hard-earned money at the problem, perhaps it's as simple as picking up a MOCA or HomePlug kit, and go that route...

It's a lot cheaper, and probably better performance..

If I did HomePlug, looks like 2 of them would be around $80, plus a gigabit switch $50. Cheaper then the $200 I guess , but they only do 500Mbps on AV2.

MOCA won't work for me. My cable modem is on a straight shot from the street and the living room is on DirecTV.

 

[sfx2000]

If I did HomePlug, looks like 2 of them would be around $80, plus a gigabit switch $50. Cheaper then the $200 I guess , but they only do 500Mbps on AV2.

MOCA won't work for me. My cable modem is on a straight shot from the street and the living room is on DirecTV.

but that 500Mbps is full duplex, and shorter latency than WiFi, so it's a good 500Mbps - and it's contention free compared to WiFi...

There are adapters that have more than a single port, and it's actually switched ports (TP-Link PA0803 is three ports on each end) - set there at Fry's is around 80 bucks...

MOCA - funny the DTV tech didn't insist on doing an overlay, as DTV prefers RG6 over the typical RG58 - my DTV install is an overlay, and the two Coax loops do not overlap...

(FWIW - if one is running both DOCSIS and Satellite, then like OP mentions, there is no channels left if on a single coax loop for MOCA)

In the home...

1) CAT5CAT5e then,
2) MOCA then,
3) HomePlug AV2 MIMO/SISO and then finally
4) WiFi of any flavor...

when trying to do a jump, and preferences are in that order - WiFi is the least preferred due to latency and speed variation...

 

[SledgeHammer01]

MOCA - funny the DTV tech didn't insist on doing an overlay, as DTV prefers RG6 over the typical RG58 - my DTV install is an overlay, and the two Coax loops do not overlap...

House was built in 2002, so I prewired for DirecTV in the wall through the builder (2 RG6 runs from the attic to the living room which was required at the time). OTA was multiplexed on one of the runs later. I recently upgraded the multi-switch to SWM, so now I have one RG6 running DirecTV and one running the OTA since multiplexing them was causing some issues with the DVR. The DirecTV RG6's are completely separate from the cable modem RG6. I also read on some of the mfgr sites that MOCA doesn't work with satellite? DirecTV has their own flavor (DECA) t0 power WHDVR, but I'd still have to bridge wirelessly to the main network. As for DOCSIS, I have Cox and supposedly they are going to start DOCSIS 3.1 rollouts in 2017, so I want to stay open to that.

I have tile floors on the first floor plus a built in entertainment center, so running a CAT5E drop would be pretty messy. Looking to avoid this route.

HomePlug is pretty much the only option aside from WiFi. Any experience with the TL-PA9020P? They claim 2Gbps transfer rate. That one is strictly 2 port though.

EDIT: Hmm.. all the reviews I'm seeing on these powerline adapters indicate they are slow in the real world. The 2000Mbps rated ones are only getting speeds like 200Mbps -> 450Mbps depending on the wiring structure. . Surely Wireless AC gets much more then that.

 

[sfx2000]

Yep, so MOCA is not really an option - kinda surprised with the DOCSIS run working smoothly along side the DECA and SWIM actually... but hey, if it works - but let's not even consider MOCA then

The HomePlug AV1200's are QC-Atheros based, and there's been a fair amount of discussion on various forums about dropouts with the QCA7500 chipsets... the PA0803 units have three ports, and they're switched locally, which is kinda nice as some traffic then doesn't need to hop over the HomePlug link except for DNS lookups or some source on the other end...

The AV2000's are Broadcom based, and fairly new, so not a lot of info there, but this might be a decent option, and once enough info comes in, I might switch over to them for that span in the house...

Remember - while the vendors might promise really high rates, a realistic view is that 500Mbps is do-able..

FWIW - my setup isn't very much different - CoxHSI and DirecTV, main difference is the runs - I pulled in new/replacement for old coax with RG58, and while TD numbers were good, the DTV installer insisted on the RG6 drops - from the dish into a two-way, one RG6 into the office where the rest of the Router/Modem complex is, a DECA there for IPTV, and a drop over to the family room where the DVRHD-44 and the Wireless Video Bridge is... and then Wireless Mini-Genies in the bedrooms (which are IPTV based actually)...

 

[sfx2000]

FWIW - my setup isn't very much different - CoxHSI and DirecTV, main difference is the runs - I pulled in new/replacement for old coax with RG58, and while TD numbers were good, the DTV installer insisted on the RG6 drops - from the dish into a two-way, one RG6 into the office where the rest of the Router/Modem complex is, a DECA there for IPTV, and a drop over to the family room where the DVRHD-44 and the Wireless Video Bridge is... and then Wireless Mini-Genies in the bedrooms (which are IPTV based actually)...

You mention mixing up OTA over the RG6 - for me in the area where I'm at, OTA isn't really an option (distance and multipath pretty much breaks good ATSC over the air - so the option is either Cox with cable, uVerse with their solution, or Satellite with either Dish or DirecTV)

 

[sfx2000]

Yeah, that is one of my concerns actually -- that its a new router with new firmware. The DD-WRT firmware only has one rev as well. The Linksys firmware is on the 3rd rev based on the release notes, but I haven't seen anything in the release notes that indicates many new features / performance improvements. And based on the other routers they have, they tend to abandon them kinda quickly. Last rev on the 1900 was in June/16.

Keep in mind that the WRT's are kind of an odd-duck compared to the rest of the Linksys product line - they're exclusively Marvell based, and not designed in-house...

Consensus here is that Cisco-Linksys had big plans for that product line, but then the Belkin sale happened in the middle of WRT1900acV1 - and Belkin has been keeping the line on life support... they've opened up some of the source, enough for DDWRT and OpenWRT teams to do development on the platform, but years later, there's still issues with the GPL wireless drivers - the closed source drivers are pretty good, but those are outside of the scope for the *WRT community for the most part...

With the 3200acm, it's going to be more of the same as it has new WiFi chips - and that's not considering the "other chip" that the 3200acm might use at some point...

I've always had mixed feeling about the WRT's - it's really good HW, but it's the software that's holding that platform back, and the lack of investment by Belkin...

 

[pege63]

Try what with a switch? You think if I could run an Ethernet drop to the entertainment center I'd be asking this question?

You write "In my scenario, I have to place the satellite in a very specific location because that's where I need the Ethernet ports" from the SAT you can draw a cable to the Switch place it near to your entertainment center, TV, gameconsol and so on.
That was my idea.