Mesh Mashup Redux - NETGEAR's Orbi Checks In

[pete y testing]

I was just wondering if the dhcp could be disabled on the orbi and be handled by the edge router.

you would run the orbi router in AP mode behind the edge router and it would work fine

Or am I being crazy and I should be looking at the rest of ubiquiti's kit for my wifi needs?

if you have structured ethernet run through the house then yes certainly any AP would be the best way to go

the orbi system is really for those that dont have structured cabling or dont want to have the cabling installed

 

[thiggins]

Orbi can be set to AP mode, which disables all routing functions including DHCP server. That is how I'm running it now.

 

[DanH]

Well - the WiFi seems to be ok, but I agree is the unspoken question here - what is the config needed if Orbi is just WiFi?

I am running a ERL and using the ORbi router and satellites as APs just fine. All you do is go to the advanced tab. Then under Advanced Setup>Router/AP Mode select:

 

[DanH]

you would run the orbi router in AP mode behind the edge router and it would work fine




if you have structured ethernet run through the house then yes certainly any AP would be the best way to go

the orbi system is really for those that dont have structured cabling or dont want to have the cabling installed

Even then it seems like the range on even the Unifi AP-AC-PRO is not all that great from the reviews I have read. So you may end up spending more in AP's to end up with equal coverage as the Orbi,

 

[sfx2000]

Orbi can be set to AP mode, which disables all routing functions including DHCP server. That is how I'm running it now.

This makes things much more interesting then - as the core strength of the Orbi is the wireless side - and one can use either an existing router (pfSense, OpenWRT, Sophos, microtik, etc...).

Tempting... wonder if they support VLAN binding to SSID in AP mode - which would make guest network support fairly easy to set up with pfSense...

(but I have to temper this with my current setup where two Airport Extreme AC's in AP mode fit current needs, including the VLAN SSID bind for the Guest SSID (VLAN 1003))

 

[pete y testing]

Even then it seems like the range on even the Unifi AP-AC-PRO is not all that great from the reviews I have read. So you may end up spending more in AP's to end up with equal coverage as the Orbi,

the difference is placement , with structured cabling you can place access points where ever you need them regardless of distance or construction materials or environmental conditions , the orbi does have limits on distance and penetration

structured cabling is always the best solution with access points attached as then you take the wifi to where its needed

 

[fbraz50]

I am running a ERL and using the ORbi router and satellites as APs just fine. All you do is go to the advanced tab. Then under Advanced Setup>Router/AP Mode select:

I have the same setup, edge router lite from ubiquity and Orbi in AP mode. It's been working great so far. The orbi kills it in WiFi performance. Still has a lack of features but overall it's the fastest farthest reaching WiFi system I have ever used.

I was bit skeptical before because my first set of orbi's basically died but this new set has been up for just under 4 weeks and so far so good.

 

[DanH]

I have the same setup, edge router lite from ubiquity and Orbi in AP mode. It's been working great so far. The orbi kills it in WiFi performance. Still has a lack of features but overall it's the fastest farthest reaching WiFi system I have ever used.

I was bit skeptical before because my first set of orbi's basically died but this new set has been up for just under 4 weeks and so far so good.

How was it behaving when it died?

 

[fbraz50]

How was it behaving when it died?

All my wireless clients went to sub 20mbps transfer rates. Both in network and to Internet. Wired clients were normal speeds. Due to the simplicity of the AP's my troubleshooting capabilities were very limited. I couldn't disable either radio nor really see into any errors. Could only restart the units and try again. Also tried turning off the satellite with the same results.

 

[Hanineal]

Have you retested the comparisons since eero put out their software upgrade that supposedly doubled their throughput?

 

[Chairman007]

Have you retested the comparisons since eero put out their software upgrade that supposedly doubled their throughput?

Likely waiting until Google wifi gets released. But ... I had both systems ... orbi & eero 2.0 firmware and can just speak from my experience. My internet provider's max residential download is 50 ... close to the eero gateway as well as orbi router ... both were showing 61 down. But maybe 50' away in a room behind a door, eero 2.0 might give 30-35, while orbi was still at 61 ... and the eero was closer to another one of its nodes. Worst thing, the signal for eero would randomly drop and lose connectivity, while orbi has been solid. I think there's simplicity in having the 2 orbi's as opposed to the 4 eero's. Have to say, I wanted the eero's to work due to the $ outlay I paid for them and their less obtrusive form factor. But, they became a nuisance with the signal drops, prompting questions about Sonos and whether it's connected via Ethernet or wifi. I didn't have the patience to play around with changing the way they're connected knowing that I wasn't seeing that same issue with orbi. Simplicity ... power up and connect the Sat to the Router and no more messing around. Happy wife & kids.

 

[whsbuss]

Likely waiting until Google wifi gets released. But ... I had both systems ... orbi & eero 2.0 firmware and can just speak from my experience. My internet provider's max residential download is 50 ... close to the eero gateway as well as orbi router ... both were showing 61 down. But maybe 50' away in a room behind a door, eero 2.0 might give 30-35, while orbi was still at 61 ... and the eero was closer to another one of its nodes. Worst thing, the signal for eero would randomly drop and lose connectivity, while orbi has been solid. I think there's simplicity in having the 2 orbi's as opposed to the 4 eero's. Have to say, I wanted the eero's to work due to the $ outlay I paid for them and their less obtrusive form factor. But, they became a nuisance with the signal drops, prompting questions about Sonos and whether it's connected via Ethernet or wifi. I didn't have the patience to play around with changing the way they're connected knowing that I wasn't seeing that same issue with orbi. Simplicity ... power up and connect the Sat to the Router and no more messing around. Happy wife & kids.

I'm waiting for the Google as well, just to test it out. Then I'll make a decision between AmpliFi HD, Google or Orbi.

 

[thiggins]

Have you retested the comparisons since eero put out their software upgrade that supposedly doubled their throughput?

Results will be posted when they are available.

 

[Rayman4449]

I'm waiting for Google as well. The Orbi review almost had me convinced to pull the trigger but it sounds like the satellite units don't have ethernet backhaul (which I understand to mean can't direct connect them to the house network via ethernet but instead is forced to connecto wirelessly to the main router/base). However the satellites do have ethernet ports, so I'm not sure I understand what they would be used for. Perhaps I'm getting terminology mixed up.

What I was looking for from a Mesh wifi system was to have seamless roaming (unlike the setup I have with two Netgear R7000 routers now where my wireless devices have a delay in connecting between the two depending on where you are at causing a disconnection). I also wanted the new Mesh wifi system to allow me to connect some satellites via ethernet so I'm not dependent on wifi signal between a wireless satellite unit and base. My initial plan is to keep one R7000 router just for the router functions (turn off the wifi) and add the new Mesh wifi system and set to AP mode. Is it possible to set all the Orbi boxes up as AP only and have satellites hardwired via ethernet? From what I've been hearing about the Orbi not having ethernet backhaul makes it sound like I can't connect them via ethernet to get their network/internet connection which is a deal-breaker for me. Can someone clarify?

 

[pete y testing]

However the satellites do have ethernet ports, so I'm not sure I understand what they would be used for. Perhaps I'm getting terminology mixed up.

i wouldnt say you forced to connect the sat via wifi , its more its designed to work via wifi

the ethernet ports on the sat are there so you can connect ethernet beased client adapters that will then connect to the router and internet via wifi as well

consider the ethernet ports on the sat/s as a media bridge

Orbi not having ethernet backhaul makes it sound like I can't connect them via ethernet to get their network/internet connection which is a deal-breaker for me. Can someone clarify?

then if you have structured ethernet cabling in your house why would you bother with any of these systems including orbi or google wifi or eero etc

if you have that cabling in place just get wireless access points and a separate router

something like

ubiquiti unifi ap's and a ubiquiti edge router would be a far better solution and work exactly as intended

using any of these so called mesh systems with structured cabling compromises their original intent and design concepts

 

[Rayman4449]

As I noted, I wanted the flexibility to have some connected via ethernet. (and thus have some not) I'll do more reading but in other articles it sounded like it wasnt an option to connect sats via ethernet. What these mesh systems offer is seamless roaming which promises to be a much better overall experience vs what consumers have had access to in the past.

I also don't agree that having some connected via ethernet somehow defeats the purpose. Google's wifi is said to allow this so you have the flexibility to do either.

 

[pete y testing]

it wasnt an option to connect sats via ethernet.

correct its not as only the router is designed to connect to ethernet , but its specifically designed that way for ppl that dont have , want or care about ethernet or structured cabling , it has been asked for many times but as of yet netgear has not said anything about incorporating ethernet connectivity into its sats

What these mesh systems offer is seamless roaming

no they offer band steering and ap steering but its still not seamless roaming , as all these mesh system the client device still disconnects from one mesh point to then reconnect to another thus not seamless , they may have the same ssid name as well but that still doesnt make it seamless

better overall experience vs what consumers have had access to in the past.

yes band steering and ap steering will give the end user a better less manual wifi experience but again its not seamless

what you have to understand is that orbi isnt a mesh system as such , its been specifically designed as a point to point wifi bridging system designed for those that dont have structured ethernet in place

the other mesh system may be more flexible by offering ethernet backhaul and it maybe the case you go with one of the others because of that feature , that choice is up to you , all i can say is that the orbi system covers my 250 square meter house and provides me with my max internet speed anywhere in the house and well beyond , i have the orbi router centrally located and a sat at each end of the house , i do have ethernet runs to fixed devices but i have no need to attach additional access/mesh points to achieve my wifi needs

you may find however you may need additional ethernet connected mesh points as you can see in tims review these mesh system coverage and throughput decrease ( esp over multiple hops ) far quicker than the orbi

but as i have suggested before ethernet backhaul for the orbi is prob the last thing the dev team is focused on atm and i wouldnt be holding my breath waiting for it anytime soon

 

[sm00thpapa]

If using both Orbi's in AP mode my concern is if your existing router will release a client when the signal gets weak.

 

[RamGuy]

How does this whole mesh networking actually work out? From what I can gather, neither Google WiFi nor Netgear Orbi features any kind of 802.11r/k/v, so how are they supposed to actually steer and manage clients in order to avoid the issues with sticky clients?

If you are living in a mansion where you have spots where your devices won't be getting connection whatsoever it would work. But what about those of us trying to deal with spotty location where signal quality, stability and performance takes a hit? Ideally I would have at least 2x Google WiFi, Eero's or Orbi's in order to battle the issue I have with the wall in the middle of my apartment really hurting stability and performance.

My problem would be that the Orbi located closest to the entrance door would pick up my iPhone, iPad etc when I arrive at home and because my iPhone and iPad won't lose connection when I move to the other end of the apartment it will just stick with the wrong Orbi with lacklustre connection without switching to the other one offering great connection and performance.


How are these solutions supposed to deal with issues like these if they don't offer any support for 802.11r/k/v in order to offer support for seamless switching between access points / mesh points?

 

[thiggins]

How are these solutions supposed to deal with issues like these if they don't offer any support for 802.11r/k/v in order to offer support for seamless switching between access points / mesh points?

11k/v/r deal mainly with minimizing roaming time. They don't control the roaming process itself. The roaming decision still depends on the client.

11k/v/r implementation in these mesh products, which are all using Qualcomm Wi-Fi SON BTW, hasn't been prioritized because the client also has to support it. Many devices don't, so it has little added value.

APs/routers can "help" clients roam by using deauthorization, i.e. disconnecting them. But if the client doesn't get the message after a few attempts, the AP usually lets them reconnect. Otherwise, users will think the AP is broken because a device won't connect.