Mesh Wi-Fi Mashup

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sfx2000

Part of the Furniture
I think SFX was referring to DEVICES, not APs or mesh routers.

That's precisely what I meant - apologies if I were not more clear on that - and a 2 stream STA can still benefit from 3 or more streams on the AP side of the link...
 

whsbuss

Senior Member
That's precisely what I meant - apologies if I were not more clear on that - and a 2 stream STA can still benefit from 3 or more streams on the AP side of the link...
No problem. I was just stating what Ubnt might be looking for down the road. 3 vs 2 is always good even if in most cases it can't be realized in today's world.
 

fbraz50

Occasional Visitor
I have an Orbi system right now. I get between 30-40MB/s going to my QNAP NAS when bouncing off of the satellite unit. At about 40MB/s I'm pretty sure I'm hitting the limits of the QNAP so this speed suites me just fine. My house is around 2000-2500 square ft and I get excellent coverage everywhere. Orbi base is in living room next to cable modem and extender is in middle of the house around 35 feet and 1 wall away from the base. Performance wise it is the best WiFi system I have installed so far.

The things I don't like about the Orbi:
- No Guest WiFi. You can't set one up, it is not possible in the software. (Netgear has confirmed they are adding this feature in their November software release)
- No multiple SSID options. It would defeat the purpose of a simplistic whole home WiFi system if you could do this but it is a minor con.
- QOS configuration is very limited. You are only limited to Enable or Disable WMM on each WiFi frequency.
- No detailed logging or information of clients. You can see them under attached devices and see which Orbi they are talking to but outside of that nothing. It doesn't tell you if they are connecting on 5ghz or 2.4ghz it just shows them as connected.
- Netgears "app" for managing this system on IOS/Android/Windows is just bad. Managing via the web interface is much better but you are forced to use the app if you want to do parental controls.
 

whsbuss

Senior Member
I have an Orbi system right now. I get between 30-40MB/s going to my QNAP NAS when bouncing off of the satellite unit. At about 40MB/s I'm pretty sure I'm hitting the limits of the QNAP so this speed suites me just fine. My house is around 2000-2500 square ft and I get excellent coverage everywhere. Orbi base is in living room next to cable modem and extender is in middle of the house around 35 feet and 1 wall away from the base. Performance wise it is the best WiFi system I have installed so far.

The things I don't like about the Orbi:
- No Guest WiFi. You can't set one up, it is not possible in the software. (Netgear has confirmed they are adding this feature in their November software release)
- No multiple SSID options. It would defeat the purpose of a simplistic whole home WiFi system if you could do this but it is a minor con.
- QOS configuration is very limited. You are only limited to Enable or Disable WMM on each WiFi frequency.
- No detailed logging or information of clients. You can see them under attached devices and see which Orbi they are talking to but outside of that nothing. It doesn't tell you if they are connecting on 5ghz or 2.4ghz it just shows them as connected.
- Netgears "app" for managing this system on IOS/Android/Windows is just bad. Managing via the web interface is much better but you are forced to use the app if you want to do parental controls.
I was never a Netgear fan for some of the cons you point out. Hopefully as the Orbi matures these things will be addressed.
 

reggie14

Occasional Visitor
Acccording to Ars Technica:
The router is a 802.11ac device with 2.4GHz and 5GHz and 2×2 antennas, supporting beamforming. It's described as AC1200, so it should offer about 900Mbps for 5GHz connections, 300Mbps for 2.4GHz ones. It also has two gigabit Ethernet ports. For a router it also packs a lot of processing power: it's got a quad core processor, with 512MB RAM and 4GB flash.
I was really hoping to see something that would provide better performance, since right now I'm streaming recorded HD video around my house using a bunch of Asus RT-AC66U routers which can be a little finicky at times (nightly reboots are a workaround).
 

sfx2000

Part of the Furniture

It's interesting that their new Google WiFi is in-house - so basically they've told Asus and TP-Link, bite the curb...

And with Pixel phone - it's the same thing for the Nexus partners... they offered the Pixel build contract to Huawei (with no Huawei branding allowed) so HTC got the build...

I'm reasonably certain that the Chromebook vendors will be next as Google is already doing their own HW there...

And once Andromeda is done - that's it for the Android ecosystem - not just the "official" Google one, but also the Android Open Source Project based devices... this is going to be a big impact to the entire device ecosystem, as many vendors have become Android centric.

So, IMHO - Google has indeed turned evil, at least w/hardware - they're pretty much announced it today...

Sorry if I sound a bit bitter at the moment - I've just been handed a lump of coal recently...
 
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Dixit

Occasional Visitor
I think we also need to look at the other reason for mesh wireless (as least my main reason for looking at it right now) is a seemless handoff like 802.11 k, r, v protocols. Apple devices support those, many other devices support it.

I already have 4 APs around my house blanketing the entire house, each AP is hardwired (I don't believe in wireless backhaul when I have a hardwire available). So I easily get close to 200Mbps almost anywhere in the house if not higher on 5ghz band.

But this isn't a solution to me, I want a true handoff, my biggest issue is I work from home and constantly on conference calls using my iPhone on ATT, it has Wifi calling now and since the signal in my basement (where my office is) isn't the best, the wifi calling is great. So Ive noticed each time I move around and the iPhone moves from one AP to another, the audio drops for about 5secs as it reconnects to another AP and the caller doesn't hear me and I don't hear them, so its annoying that I lose that audio for that time while Im talking. So this handoff would fix this.

Secondly the smart devices like Wemo don't play right either in my setup, these folks don't code devices properly, it seems to remember the channel of the SSID vs just looking at the SSID and looking at the strongest RSSI. Remember I have 4 APs, and all have same SSID but had to put them on different channels since I don't really have a true handoff concept here, its your typical hodgepodge of blanketing wireless by taking a few Wifi Routers (higher end ones like Asus AC68) and turning them into APs, so no handoff basically.

So what would've been nice is to see a test on this showing you start off at one AP (the root say) and move around the house and see how well it reacts. True mesh like Eero which claims to have 802.11r support, if you client supports it, should keep connection at all times as you bounce from AP to AP and seemless, so your throughput test should continue with no blips, sure it will drop in speed and pickup in speed, but should pause as it drops and reconnects like say my setup would. Luma claims to have only 802.11k. I had a set of 6 delivered but returned it without trying after I noticed how super basic its UI was and wouldn't even work in my setup (I have too many advanced settings configured like static routes, port fwding, static IP).

Dixit
 

sfx2000

Part of the Furniture
I already have 4 APs around my house blanketing the entire house, each AP is hardwired (I don't believe in wireless backhaul when I have a hardwire available). So I easily get close to 200Mbps almost anywhere in the house if not higher on 5ghz band.

You will not see any benefit from MESH that you do not have already...
 

Dixit

Occasional Visitor
You will not see any benefit from MESH that you do not have already...

But my main point/reason for this is the seamless handoff that I want from a true mesh that has 802.11k, r, v, wouldn't that give me the benefit I need? I understand I wont have anything on the speed side which I already have configured to the best.

Dixit
 

sfx2000

Part of the Furniture
But my main point/reason for this is the seamless handoff that I want from a true mesh that has 802.11k, r, v, wouldn't that give me the benefit I need? I understand I wont have anything on the speed side which I already have configured to the best.

If wishes were fishes - we'd all cast nets eh?

11k,r,v have nothing to do with MESH - so let's remove that from the conversation...

There are plenty of AP's out there that support 11k/r/v already... and they don't do MESH...
 

Dixit

Occasional Visitor
If wishes were fishes - we'd all cast nets eh?

11k,r,v have nothing to do with MESH - so let's remove that from the conversation...

There are plenty of AP's out there that support 11k/r/v already... and they don't do MESH...

Understood, sorry, as mentioned in another thread, I guess Im a victim of the marketing buzz words like MESH.

Dixit
 

fbraz50

Occasional Visitor
I would like to recast my vote for Orbi. Don't buy the first revision. Seems like they may have some bad batches out there. Mine was working for 2 weeks until 2 nights ago when all my wireless clients started going at no more then 15mbps. That's right every single wireless device stopped performing. I ran the same speed test from a desktop connected, via Ethernet, to the main orbi router and that hit 115mbps easily. I tried restarting it all and as soon as it was back up it had the same issues. Checked firmware and it was the latest available.

Here's the problem. I couldn't tell which channel my devices were connecting to. The only devices that could actually tell me were my laptops and I honestly didn't check. The orbi itself should be able to tell me this but it doesn't. I couldn't disable either of he two radios to see if maybe 2.4ghz or 5ghz had gone bad in some way. Due to its simplicity my actual trouble shooting was very limited.

I put back my AirPort Extreme and ubiquity edge lite router and everything works. My coverage is spotty in some parts of my house like it used to be but at least when my clients connect they work.

I took the orbi back to my local store and explained what happened. One of the return guys there told me he's seen a lot of these being returned, 4-5 in the last two days to be exact. This was just this one person not counting any others in the department. I opted for the return instead of exchange.
 

whsbuss

Senior Member
If wishes were fishes - we'd all cast nets eh?

11k,r,v have nothing to do with MESH - so let's remove that from the conversation...

There are plenty of AP's out there that support 11k/r/v already... and they don't do MESH...
Can you tell us which support the newer 11k/r/v ??
 

fbraz50

Occasional Visitor
Can you tell us which support the newer 11k/r/v ??

Are you sure you want to spend the money? My company uses Aruba for wireless and it's phenomenal in terms of hand off. You pay for this tech though. Each AP they use MSRP's for $1200. Your don't have to go that high but if you want 80mhz 5ghz channels 3x3 radio business class Wireless you're going to pay a lot.

If it were up to me, I would buy an aruba and hang it in the middle of my house. Specifically the IAP-225. But I can't run Ethernet here so that option is out.

The only reasonably priced system like this might be from ubiquity. They make the amplifi system but they also make business class products.
 

jramskov

Occasional Visitor
It all depends on your starting point. Mesh and/or wireless extenders can provide benefit by lighting up an area that would otherwise be inaccessible. But each hop will cost you throughput and placement is important.

How much throughput do you need? You can do a lot with >50 Mbps.
Exactly, I believe what many people are looking for isn't Gbit performance everywhere, but "good enough" performance in the whole house. What I'm missing in this test is what happens when multiple users connect and stream Netflix or something?
 

pete y testing

Very Senior Member
What I'm missing in this test is what happens when multiple users connect and stream Netflix or something?


no issue here , the kids are connected to the sat and both are streaming and im watching fetch tv , the only bottleneck is the internet connection speed
 

fbraz50

Occasional Visitor
Definitely noticing performance hits on the Amplifi HD when bouncing through the extension antennas.

I think this whole category might be a wash for me. Might have to jump to an actual small business or enterprise solution to get what I need. Maybe ubiquitis actual business line of products.
 

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