MoCA PoE filter question with external OTA antenna (no cable TV)

[LexCaia]

Diagram looks GOOD, with the caveats previously cited:

• No "PoE" MoCA filter is needed on the Internet modem line;
• A "PoE" MoCA filter is required on the input of the top-level "OTA" splitter;
• The 2-way splitter in the remote room(s) could be skipped if the chosen MoCA adapter has an RF pass-through port (to which the TV could be connected).
  
  
• Amplifier shouldn't be necessary if one isn't currently required, though the attenuation/specs of the replacement splitter may be marginally more severe.

Thank you very much for your detailed feedback, really appreciated the time you spent in explaining everything

 

[LexCaia]

edit: p.s. Re: the diagram and the "7-way splitter" ... Most splitters that size are either 6-way or 8-way (6 outputs or 8 outputs), so I'm wondering whether that's actually a 6-way/6-output splitter or an 8-way/8-output splitter with an unused output. Ideally, the splitter would be right-sized to just the number of splits/outputs needed, to minimize signal loss (both OTA and MoCA), and any unused output ports would be capped with a 75-ohm terminator.

We definitely have 7 outlets, therefore likely a 8-way splitter as you indicated.

 

[LexCaia]

* How many rooms are you looking to link to your router? Just the one additional room w/ the WAP/mesh node?

At least two rooms, maybe three.

Is there anywhere else in the home where the "OTA" coax lines to your router location and the room(s) targeted for MoCA are co-located and more easily accessible?

Unfortunately no due to the location of the NTD outlet / modem location. Not many option with current configuration unless we relocate the NTD modem and outlet elsewhere. We were limited with where we could place it when the NBN technician came to install it.

 

[LexCaia]

I recommend reviewing this IEEE presentation covering "MoCA Basics" (PDF). It's pretty straightforward and provides good insight on MoCA loss budgeting, preferred splitters, and the performance value of a "PoE" MoCA filter.

Just saw this and thank you for sharing this presentation. Very informative!

 

[LexCaia]

* FWIW, a mostly up-to-date list of available MoCA adapters can be found >here<.

Thank you! Do you have a preference? I was leaning towards the gocoax MA2500D (either that or the Actiontec)

 

[LexCaia]

Thank you again Tech Junky, degrub and krkaufman for all your detailed responses and for your patience in walking me through this. Your collective feedback has been invaluable . The MoCA networking technology is not well known in Australia or widely used - Ethernet over Power is more common.

 

[krkaufman]

At least two rooms, maybe three.


Unfortunately no due to the location of the NTD outlet / modem location. Not many option with current configuration unless we relocate the NTD modem and outlet elsewhere. We were limited with where we could place it when the NBN technician came to install it.

To be clear, the context of this question didn’t include the modem’s coax line, beyond it determining which of the 7 “OTA” lines is the one leading to the router location.

What I was wondering was whether there was some place other than the main OTA splitter location (i.e. more readily accessible) where the “OTA” coax lines to the router and MoCA-targeted locations were co-located — allowing them to be spliced, re-terminated and interconnected…. slipping the MoCA signals between the lines, downstream and away from the main splitter, eliminating the need for any changes to the attic/roof components.

 

[krkaufman]

Thank you! Do you have a preference? I was leaning towards the gocoax MA2500D (either that or the Actiontec)

I don’t … but then I don’t have any 2.5 GbE devices, yet.

If amenable to pre-owned… The FCA251/WF-803FT is a great budget option for 1 GbE MoCA 2.5, but I haven’t been able to get any details on its 2.5 GbE sibling, the FC252, to know if one of its toggle settings allows normal MoCA 2.5 operation. (similar to he “Full” setting on the FCA251)

 

[krkaufman]

Most of the diagrams I've come across seem to be a hybrid set up....I will have to check the frequency on my splitter (it was installed 15 years ago) and also try and get a PoE filter (assuming it has to be 5-1002 Mhz).

Something like >this< for the splitter, or similar from one of the other series listed above; and, yeah, the “PoE” MoCA filter should pass frequencies up through 1002 MHz … but it’s worth looking closely to make sure that the stop-band spec covers the whole MoCA Extended Band D range, 1125-1675 MHz — and not just through the earlier top MoCA frequency of 1525 MHz. Oh, and a -70 dB stop-band is preferable for a MoCA filter on an antenna feed. (example filter)

 

[LexCaia]

What I was wondering was whether there was some place other than the main OTA splitter location (i.e. more readily accessible) where the “OTA” coax lines to the router and MoCA-targeted locations were co-located — allowing them to be spliced, re-terminated and interconnected…. slipping the MoCA signals between the lines, downstream and away from the main splitter, eliminating the need for any changes to the attic/roof components.

Good question....another poster also suggested this but there would be more challenges with this than to try and access the roof. The shape of the rooms and walls / doors make it quite difficult.

 

[LexCaia]

If amenable to pre-owned… The FCA251/WF-803FT is a great budget option for 1 GbE MoCA 2.5, but I haven’t been able to get any details on its 2.5 GbE sibling, the FC252, to know if one of its toggle settings allows normal MoCA 2.5 operation. (similar to he “Full” setting on the FCA251)

I am such a newbie to all of this....never even heard of MoCA until a week ago when I was googling alternate networking possibilities! I have a cabler popping by on Friday for an inspection and to get a quote on possible options.

 

[LexCaia]

Something like >this< for the splitter, or similar from one of the other series listed above; and, yeah, the “PoE” MoCA filter should pass frequencies up through 1002 MHz … but it’s worth looking closely to make sure that the stop-band spec covers the whole MoCA Extended Band D range, 1125-1675 MHz — and not just through the earlier top MoCA frequency of 1525 MHz. Oh, and a -70 dB stop-band is preferable for a MoCA filter on an antenna feed. (example filter)

Thanks for the reminder on the frequency. He told me they call it a LPF over here (quite similar). I'll also ask him about DOCSIS 3.1 as he used to lay the NBN cables as well and will be very familiar with the specifications etc. Thanks again for all the links and information!

 

[krkaufman]

Good question....another poster also suggested this but there would be more challenges with this than to try and access the roof. The shape of the rooms and walls / doors make it quite difficult.

Yeah, I didn’t think it likely that there would be some magical spot where you’d find the cable bellies exposed, but thought I’d put it out there. The workaround approach, if nothing else, would motivate getting access to the main splitter. (I’ll try and attach a diagram later, just to demo how unappealing and last resort it would be.)

 

[krkaufman]

Thanks for the reminder on the frequency. He told me they call it a LPF over here (quite similar). I'll also ask him about DOCSIS 3.1 as he used to lay the NBN cables as well and will be very familiar with the specifications etc. Thanks again for all the links and information!

Yeah, I’ve seen “LPF” (low pass filter), as well. But always good to check the specs to make sure the frequency ranges match the application.

Re: DOCSIS… With your Internet feed isolated from the rest of your coax, blessedly, the nature of the Internet connection won’t matter.

 

[LexCaia]

Yeah, I’ve seen “LPF” (low pass filter), as well. But always good to check the specs to make sure the frequency ranges match the application.

Re: DOCSIS… With your Internet feed isolated from the rest of your coax, blessedly, the nature of the Internet connection won’t matter.

I spoke with the cabler today and didn’t have too much confidence that the job would be that straight forward. At least he was willing to charge me a fixed rate. I spoke with him about MoCA and in terms of the LPF and splitter frequencies, shouldn’t be an issue getting these locally. His concern was that this is not something (using coax) that is common in Australia. Although we have Ethernet over coax, it is usually in commercial or apartment buildings. I sensed his reluctance to go down that path, opting instead for data points. If it is not too costly I may get a few data points installed but will also ask him to fit the splitter and LPF for me if we are not contravening any local laws etc.

You are very knowledgeable on the subject and I’m assuming you work in that field? Or hobby?

 

[krkaufman]

If it is not too costly I may get a few data points installed but will also ask him to fit the splitter and LPF for me if we are not contravening any local laws etc.

Good idea. Just be ready to test your TV reception to ensure that the “MoCA upgrade” didn’t adversely affect your TV tuning. (There should only be a marginal 1-3 dB additional attenuation at TV frequencies.)

p.s. just a hobbyist, with a high free-time/knowledge ratio

 

[LexCaia]

Good idea. Just be ready to test your TV reception to ensure that the “MoCA upgrade” didn’t adversely affect your TV tuning. (There should only be a marginal 1-3 dB additional attenuation at TV frequencies.)

He seems to think that with the 8-way splitter, the attenuation would be about 15dB (before MoCA). Our area is quite hilly so we can get spotty reception depending on weather.

p.s. just a hobbyist, with a high free-time/knowledge ratio

That is a lot of knowledge built up . Thanks again for all your help!

 

[krkaufman]

He seems to think that with the 8-way splitter, the attenuation would be about 15dB (before MoCA).

That might be close, depending on the coax length, what w/ RG6 adding around 5dB attenuation per 100 feet. (see here) The MoCA upgrade shouldn't add much more, with a typical MoCA filter having <1dB attenuation in the pass-band.

 

[LexCaia]

That might be close, depending on the coax length, what w/ RG6 adding around 5dB attenuation per 100 feet. (see here) The MoCA upgrade shouldn't add much more, with a typical MoCA filter having <1dB attenuation in the pass-band

Thank you! . Really appreciate all in the information! I have a much clearer picture in my head

 

[degrub]

Is your cable installer an experienced TV antenna installer ? Does he have a TV spectrum analyzer for tuning the antenna direction ?

Are the TV transmitters located in one direction ? if so, you might use a highly directional antenna if you don't already. Can help with reflections (multipath) off the hills or structures as well. A gen 5 or later digital tuner will help with multipath as well. Most recent digital TVs of middle (current) to bleeding edge ( within the last 5-10 years) will have one.

AVSforum is a good source for detailed information and help.

If you are going to install ethernet cables in the walls, you don't need MOCA. MOCA2.5 just caught up with Gbit/s ethernet which is more than adequate for home use. Pull 2 CAT6 cables to each location if you do. Have them terminated and certified by the installer for 10 Gbit/s if you can or at least 2.5 or 5. That will buy you some future usage and cable damage mitigation.