Need help on poor wireless performance

[Mathias Andersson]

Hello, I really need some input on what can be wrong or what I have done wrong.

I have set up a small outdoor wireless network in a camping area.
The setup is quite simple:

I have 5 wireless access points (Engenius ENH220EXT https://www.engeniustech.com/produc...nts-client-bridges/outdoor-pro/enh220ext.html) placed all around the area, connected via ethernet to a router Mikrotik RB 2011UiAS. Internet is provided via fiber 500/100 mbit.
We have approx 60 users connected to the access points in an average, mostly tablets and smartphones.

Many users complain that they get very poor or no internet service at all, even though they have good signal strength (as reported by their devices).

I did a test myself where I stood 3 meters away from an access point, being connected with full signal strength running speed test. I got very poor result, 0,3 down and 0,05 up.
The strange thing here is that I get good wireless performance if I connect wireless via a simple D-link access point wired to a TP-Link CPE510 connected wireless to the same ENH220EXT access point as sketched in this picture.

The behavior I need help to understand is why I get poor performance being connected via wifi directly to the ENH220EXT while getting good performance being connected via the TP-Link / Dlink setup?

 

[pege63]

What is the distance from the router to the first AP and then to the others APs?

 

[Mathias Andersson]

What is the distance from the router to the first AP and then to the others APs?

All access points have their own ethernet cable (cat 6 shielded) from the router which has a built in 10 port switch. The cable length for the 5 access points vary between 20 meters to 90 meters.

I have done some more research and found that all access points have this bad behavior, giving really poor transfer rates even though I am close to the access point.

To troubleshoot it I tried moving things around in the network, and finally I found a pattern: When the POE is located near the router I get bad performance. If I move the POE to the access point using some temporary long extension 230v cables they work perfectly OK.

Really strange, the POE's are specified to work fine up to 100 meters.

Any thoughts on what I should do next? Replace ethernet cables? Replace POE's? Call an electrician and order installation of 230v near the access points (expensive....)?

 

[pege63]

wait and see there is lots of good experts in here with more "know how" knowledge in here.
There is Ubiquiti Unifi AP AC LR on netonnet you can try out in 30 day with pay back garanty.

 

[sfx2000]

60 clients per AP is fairly high loading...

 

[L&LD]

All access points have their own ethernet cable (cat 6 shielded) from the router which has a built in 10 port switch. The cable length for the 5 access points vary between 20 meters to 90 meters.

I have done some more research and found that all access points have this bad behavior, giving really poor transfer rates even though I am close to the access point.

To troubleshoot it I tried moving things around in the network, and finally I found a pattern: When the POE is located near the router I get bad performance. If I move the POE to the access point using some temporary long extension 230v cables they work perfectly OK.

Really strange, the POE's are specified to work fine up to 100 meters.

Any thoughts on what I should do next? Replace ethernet cables? Replace POE's? Call an electrician and order installation of 230v near the access points (expensive....)?

It is the POE's that are not capable of giving the required voltage/current at the distances required over the Ethernet cable being used.

What is the cheaper option for you? Higher quality Ethernet cable runs (if available)? Higher quality POE's? Both? Or, run AC power to each AP?

For the highest performance, most reliability, efficiency and flexibility (long term), AC power to each AP is what I prefer (over POE).

sfx2000, I understood it as 60 clients total (over 5 AP's), not 60 clients per AP.

 

[System Error Message]

Did you consider the wattage and losses for your POE? At 100m the losses are significant, even at 50m. It also depends on which POE protocol you use.

 

[Mathias Andersson]

60 clients per AP is fairly high loading...

No, 60 clients in total more or less even distributed over 5 AP's.

 

[Mathias Andersson]

It is the POE's that are not capable of giving the required voltage/current at the distances required over the Ethernet cable being used.

What is the cheaper option for you? Higher quality Ethernet cable runs (if available)? Higher quality POE's? Both? Or, run AC power to each AP?

For the highest performance, most reliability, efficiency and flexibility (long term), AC power to each AP is what I prefer (over POE).

sfx2000, I understood it as 60 clients total (over 5 AP's), not 60 clients per AP.

I'm leaning at installing AC very close to each AP. This is a bit of a set back since it was not part of the initial plan / budget, but it seems to be the best option long term. Thank you all who has contributed.

For the future, what kind of considerations should I have when choosing ethernet cable standard/quality, distance loss and POE protocol if I want to distribute power over long distance (up to 100 meters) via ethernet?

 

[L&LD]

I'm leaning at installing AC very close to each AP. This is a bit of a set back since it was not part of the initial plan / budget, but it seems to be the best option long term. Thank you all who has contributed.

For the future, what kind of considerations should I have when choosing ethernet cable standard, distance loss and POE protocol if I want to distribute power over long distance (up to 100 meters) via ethernet?

http://beyond-wifi.com/poe/poe-calc.html


I still wouldn't rely on POE (the equipment will change too much over the long term). An actual AC power outlet gives the best choice and reliability as the network needs and hardware changes (ongoing).

 

[sfx2000]

No, 60 clients in total more or less even distributed over 5 AP's.

Ah... ok, general rule of thumb is around 25/30 per radio, but that depends on the type of traffic in use.

If you test things when the camp ground is lightly occupied, how do things look there - if you're getting good RF, then something odd is going on...

 

[schoondoggy]

I assume by POE you are referring to the small power injectors that come with the WAP. AC power next to the WAP would be best, but can be expensive to add. Have you looked at high power mid-spans?
http://www.microsemi.com/products/poe-systems/high-power-midspans
They would take the place of the small power injectors. Mid-spans deliver more power and free you up to use your existing switch instead of buying a POE switch.
Also if you have not contacted Engenius tech support, they may have some thoughts. They are generally quick to respond.

 

[sfx2000]

OP has enough power over POE to the end-points - exhibited by good RF across the WLAN...

This looks more like a networking issue, INHO, than a radio issue - and loading, as OP suggests, might not be in play...

To recap - he's got 60 users across 5 AP's with a fair amount of ingress bandwidth and good RF coverage... and poor client throughput... this suggests something with the WLC/LAN side performance...

 

[schoondoggy]

I agree that this did not sound like a power issue, but the OP ran extension cords and moved the injectors to the WAPs and the problem went away. This could be an odd interaction between the injectors and the switch in the router. Switches in routers are not known to be robust. Question for the OP, do you have a different switch you can test with?

 

[Mathias Andersson]

I agree that this did not sound like a power issue, but the OP ran extension cords and moved the injectors to the WAPs and the problem went away. This could be an odd interaction between the injectors and the switch in the router. Switches in routers are not known to be robust. Question for the OP, do you have a different switch you can test with?

I have ruled out the router/switch to be the problem during my troubleshooting. To find out what was the problem I moved things around in the network by unplugging everything and then just plug in one of the ethernet cables directly to incoming internet going to the AP where the problem still was present having the POE on a long distance (approx 60 meters) from the AP. Moving the POE near the AP resolved it. Then I continued plugging things back and it still worked fine as long as I kept the POE close to the AP.

Having read about Engenius POE protocol, they strictly prohibit the use of any other POE's than the ones shipped with the device since they use an Engenius specific propriatary version of POE protocol.
As suggested by scoondoggy, I will run this question through Engenius tech support as well.

Other than that, I thank you all for providing good input. I have decided to install 230v AC near each AP which both solves the issue and also is a good investment for any future changes or additions we may need.

 

[pege63]

The product may require a POE switch that delivers 48V or 24V, have you not think about that?

Powered via the network cable supplied with the power injector (max. 40 m cable between the power injector and the access point). Do not know if it applies to yours

 

[L&LD]

I have ruled out the router/switch to be the problem during my troubleshooting. To find out what was the problem I moved things around in the network by unplugging everything and then just plug in one of the ethernet cables directly to incoming internet going to the AP where the problem still was present having the POE on a long distance (approx 60 meters) from the AP. Moving the POE near the AP resolved it. Then I continued plugging things back and it still worked fine as long as I kept the POE close to the AP.

Having read about Engenius POE protocol, they strictly prohibit the use of any other POE's than the ones shipped with the device since they use an Engenius specific propriatary version of POE protocol.
As suggested by scoondoggy, I will run this question through Engenius tech support as well.

Other than that, I thank you all for providing good input. I have decided to install 230v AC near each AP which both solves the issue and also is a good investment for any future changes or additions we may need.

Usually the best, but most expensive fix 'today', is the one that is the cheapest in the long term.

 

[sfx2000]

Having read about Engenius POE protocol, they strictly prohibit the use of any other POE's than the ones shipped with the device since they use an Engenius specific propriatary version of POE protocol.
As suggested by scoondoggy, I will run this question through Engenius tech support as well.

That's right... missed that in the original post - seems like you've sorted it now...